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  1. #1
    Registered User smaj1's Avatar
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    Advice for beginner on Keto diet and weight training

    Hi

    I'm new to this forum and would like some help.

    I have been training for 2 months now just to lose some weight and try to get lean. I have decided to try the keto and i would like to know how to plan my workouts for weight training and cardio alongside taking bcaa, creatine and whey protein etc whilst on this diet.

    Also do i need carbs before and/or after training and how do i preserve muscle alongside the training combined with keto diet

    I am planning to train in mornings approx 630am but may change later to evenings 8pm.

    Would really appreciate your advise.
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  2. #2
    Registered User dari0's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smaj1 View Post
    Hi

    I'm new to this forum and would like some help.

    I have been training for 2 months now just to lose some weight and try to get lean. I have decided to try the keto and i would like to know how to plan my workouts for weight training and cardio alongside taking bcaa, creatine and whey protein etc whilst on this diet.

    Also do i need carbs before and/or after training and how do i preserve muscle alongside the training combined with keto diet

    I am planning to train in mornings approx 630am but may change later to evenings 8pm.

    Would really appreciate your advise.
    Do some research on Keto on Youtube and search up a guy named Thomas Delauer and Dr. Berg. Try Intermittent fasting with Keto. They go hand in hand. What's your starting weight and whats your goal weight, what are you trying to get out of this?
    Here to inspire.
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  3. #3
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smaj1 View Post
    Hi

    I'm new to this forum and would like some help.

    I have been training for 2 months now just to lose some weight and try to get lean. I have decided to try the keto and i would like to know how to plan my workouts for weight training and cardio alongside taking bcaa, creatine and whey protein etc whilst on this diet.

    Also do i need carbs before and/or after training and how do i preserve muscle alongside the training combined with keto diet

    I am planning to train in mornings approx 630am but may change later to evenings 8pm.

    Would really appreciate your advise.
    Don't spend money on bcaa.

    Use protein powder as needed to hit your daily protein macro/goal.

    Creatine monohydrate 3-5 grams a day, every day, in any beverage, at any time of day, no loading, no cycling

    A little reading

    bcaa
    https://mauiathletics.com/free-form-...e-of-research/

    keto
    https://mauiathletics.com/ketogenic-...y-composition/
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  4. #4
    Registered User Gabbar99's Avatar
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    Forget the BCAAs. Luc Van Loon, world leading expert on protein and exercise: “in short, there is absolutely no evidence that BCAAs enhance performance or recovery if supplemented at any time”

    Keto can be a good way to control your calories. There's nothing else special about it.

    You asked: "Also do i need carbs before and/or after training and how do i preserve muscle alongside the training combined with keto diet?"

    Keto means pretty much no carbs, so neither before nor after.

    You're probably better off forgetting about keto and just doing a high-protein calorie-controlled diet, but if keto helps you eat less calories, it might do what you're looking for.
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    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gabbar99 View Post
    Forget the BCAAs. Luc Van Loon, world leading expert on protein and exercise: “in short, there is absolutely no evidence that BCAAs enhance performance or recovery if supplemented at any time”

    Keto can be a good way to control your calories. There's nothing else special about it.

    You asked: "Also do i need carbs before and/or after training and how do i preserve muscle alongside the training combined with keto diet?"

    Keto means pretty much no carbs, so neither before nor after.

    You're probably better off forgetting about keto and just doing a high-protein calorie-controlled diet, but if keto helps you eat less calories, it might do what you're looking for.
    That. ^ Exactly that.
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    Great advice so far, nothing to say that will add any value beyond those two reply’s.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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    Registered User adamgentile's Avatar
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    Keto is good for losing weight fast and it's a good short-term diet. But if your goal is to build muscle, I don't see being Keto being a good option.

    Skimping on carbohydrate, most of which should come from slow digesting sources such as brown rice, grains, oatmeal, veggies and yams, can actually cause you to lose muscle.

    Carbs form muscle glycogen, the fuel for strenuous training, and when these stores are depleted the body turns to its own lean tissue for fuel.
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    Keto is good for losing weight fast and it's a good short-term diet. But if your goal is to build muscle, I don't see being Keto being a good option.

    Skimping on carbohydrate, most of which should come from slow digesting sources such as brown rice, grains, oatmeal, veggies and yams, can actually cause you to lose muscle.

    Carbs form muscle glycogen, the fuel for strenuous training, and when these stores are depleted the body turns to its own lean tissue for fuel.
    Lol what? Stop giving advice. Body fat is stored fuel. Not eating carbohydrates will not cause muscle loss. Muscle loss is only going to occur if sufficient training stimuli is absent, or in cases of starvation once adequate fat reserves are depleted.

    The benefits of keto for some (myself included) when dieting is satiation. There is no benefit to fat loss efficiency versus any other form of calorie deficit. Typically people will see faster SCALE LOSS when starting a low carb or ketogenic diet due to losing more water weight.

    OP Some people do well on keto others do not. It is very restrictive and not the best for micro nutrients. Most people don't do it right anyway. I'd recommend tracking your intake and adjusting it to see your desired amount of scale loss on a rolling weekly average. Focus your food intake on mostly whole food sources and include a lot of vegetables for satiation. Avoid drinking calories and using high calorie condiments which do not provide much satiation for the calories...
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    Keto is good for losing weight fast and it's a good short-term diet. But if your goal is to build muscle, I don't see being Keto being a good option.

    Skimping on carbohydrate, most of which should come from slow digesting sources such as brown rice, grains, oatmeal, veggies and yams, can actually cause you to lose muscle.

    Carbs form muscle glycogen, the fuel for strenuous training, and when these stores are depleted the body turns to its own lean tissue for fuel.
    Rubbish. There is nothing special about Keto besides being restrictive. Hit the nutrition section and read the stickies. I recommend tracking macros and calories to hit your goals. Much more straight forward and sustainable.
    “Other gyms use machines… CrossFit builds them”
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Lol what? Stop giving advice.
    Actually that advice was given to me to from Bob Paris, probably one of the greatest aesthetic bodybuilders ever. Or maybe you are to young to know about him.
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    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    Actually that advice was given to me to from Bob Paris, probably one of the greatest aesthetic bodybuilders ever. Or maybe you are to young to know about him.
    Well it was once thought the earth was flat, what is your point....Some great bodybuilder didn't understand physiology, earth shattering.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Well it was once thought the earth was flat, what is your point....Some great bodybuilder didn't understand physiology, earth shattering.
    Forget it, you know it all.
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    Forget it, you know it all.
    Well, I know enough to understand that not eating carbs doesn't in-itself result in catabolism of muscle tissue, and that there are pathways for utilization of fat for energy (that is why we store fat). While I'm not a 'keto advocate" I have a hard time letting misinformed bro science posts be represented as fact. Keto is no more efficient in burning fat than any other matched calorie deficit as I previously stated, but it does work very well for some people due to the satiation benefits. I ran a keto diet for about 7 months last year, my body did not consume all of my lean tissue...See pics in profile if you need verification.
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    Registered User n0cturnal12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vandeman17 View Post
    Rubbish. There is nothing special about Keto besides being restrictive. Hit the nutrition section and read the stickies. I recommend tracking macros and calories to hit your goals. Much more straight forward and sustainable.
    Not true. I have lost over 40 lbs in 18 months. Keto is a lifestyle that can be sustained in the long run and provides health benefits that other diets don't offer. For e.g. avoiding sugar and carbs all together has shown to reduce growths in cancer cells. My blood work has seen constant improvements since I started Keto. Look up on r/keto and you will see success stories that you wouldn't find in any other diet.
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    Originally Posted by n0cturnal12 View Post
    For e.g. avoiding sugar and carbs all together has shown to reduce growths in cancer cells.
    Not true. The Warburg hypotheis was a reasonable hypothesis and may yet have some relevance in cancer treatment, but avoiding sugar and carbs all together has not been shown to reduce growths in cancer cells.
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    Originally Posted by n0cturnal12 View Post
    Look up on r/keto and you will see success stories that you wouldn't find in any other diet.
    You will find those same stories with absolutely every other diet.

    My sister went vegan, lost 30 lbs, and got off of 8 medications.

    A friend lost a lot of weight on the blood-type of diet, which is total nonsense, and swears it changed his life and is the diet to rule all diets.

    Losing fat is good for you. Any diet that allows you to eat less calories and lose fat will have good outcomes.

    Keto can be great for controlling your calories, but there's no evidence that it's any better than controlling your calories any other way.

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    Originally Posted by Gabbar99 View Post
    Not true. The Warburg hypotheis was a reasonable hypothesis and may yet have some relevance in cancer treatment, but avoiding sugar and carbs all together has not been shown to reduce growths in cancer cells.
    Actually it seems nearly proven in SOME types of cancer. That said other types of cancer seem to metabolize protein rather than carbohydrates, and while I’m not an oncologist, I’d be willing to bet there are some cancer types that prefer fat as a metabolic substrate. Many of the positive health effects noted by people on keto diets are very real, but losing fat and getting to a healthier body composition is going to result in improved health markers, so it’s the fatloss rather than the keto. The same health marker improvements would likely occur on any matched calorie diet, and they would likely be further enhanced if that matched calorie diet included carbs from micronutrient dense high fiber fruits and vegetables. Keto can be a good tool for some, but there are a lot of ways to accomplish the same thing. I prefer running low carbs for a variety of reasons (mainly satiation and how I feel) but I include a LOT of veg. I pretty much just avoid processed carbs, rice and other low nutrient carb sources. They just seem to make me hungrier.


    But then again what do I know, probably gonna loze all mah gainz cause low carb. Lol. Squating sets at 365 today while running about 2000 cals/day so my legs must not have got the memo yet.
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    Originally Posted by Gabbar99 View Post
    You will find those same stories with absolutely every other diet.

    My sister went vegan, lost 30 lbs, and got off of 8 medications.

    A friend lost a lot of weight on the blood-type of diet, which is total nonsense, and swears it changed his life and is the diet to rule all diets.
    You may be right. But, Keto works for me because I love Cheese, Beef, Eggs, and Bacon. I can have as many as I want as long as I don't go over my daily Macros. The type of food on Keto is more filling and help you stay away from senseless snackings in between. My regular blood work has shown decrease in cholesterol levels.

    The best part about Keto and how it affected me is that it has totally taken away any sugar cravings I had.
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    Have a question for the Keto crew.

    Example 1-

    Keto diet in caloric surplus


    Example 2-

    "Standard" type diet, caloric deficit

    Please explain which example would result in weight loss, and why.
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    Originally Posted by BS57 View Post
    Have a question for the Keto crew.

    Example 1-

    Keto diet in caloric surplus


    Example 2-

    "Standard" type diet, caloric deficit

    Please explain which example would result in weight loss, and why.
    I have tried both and like I said in my other post, I have lost over 40 lbs on Keto. Don't remember losing anything on calorie deficit diet for too long.

    But, your first option is wrong. You cannot have any diet or program including Keto where a caloric surplus diet will cause you to lose weight. You still have to watch your Macros, but once your body becomes Ketogenic, it burns fat as fuel, which helps.
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    Originally Posted by BS57 View Post
    Have a question for the Keto crew.

    Example 1-

    Keto diet in caloric surplus


    Example 2-

    "Standard" type diet, caloric deficit

    Please explain which example would result in weight loss, and why.
    If calories are the same and the protein the same they'd be exactly the same except for water weight. These studies have been done. Why? Because it's the same energy balance.

    And burning fat for energy versus burning glycogen doesn't really make any difference if the energy balance and protein are the same. Excess calories will be stored as fat; calorie deficit will result in fat loss.
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    Originally Posted by n0cturnal12 View Post
    . You cannot have any diet or program including Keto where a caloric surplus diet will cause you to lose weight.
    Thank-you for admitting it's the deficit that matters.
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    Originally Posted by BS57 View Post
    Thank-you for admitting it's the deficit that matters.
    I don’t see anything in this thread that indicates keto changes the laws of thermodynamics?

    Opie referenced no cravings and less hunger. That is a benifit that helps some people live in a calorie deficit with less discomfort from hunger...
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I don’t see anything in this thread that indicates keto changes the laws of thermodynamics?
    Go back to your own post #8, and what you quoted.
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    My hypothesis is... that getting heated up arguing the small points (much of which is reasonable but conjecture), shouting at web pages and fist waving can increase your metabolism, but forum-raised metabolism might not be significant in overall weight loss

    if Keto works for you --> Keep doing it
    If Keto doesn't work for you --> Stop doing it

    Sorry to get all pragmatic and try to ruin a good fight (yeah I'm no fun...)
    Faith in Jesus first and faith in squats second.
    Then other details will start to slot themselves into place.
    Diet restarted, target 69.x Kg, progress poor so far :(
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    Originally Posted by BS57 View Post
    Go back to your own post #8, and what you quoted.
    If you disagree with this

    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Lol what? Stop giving advice. Body fat is stored fuel. Not eating carbohydrates will not cause muscle loss. Muscle loss is only going to occur if sufficient training stimuli is absent, or in cases of starvation once adequate fat reserves are depleted.

    The benefits of keto for some (myself included) when dieting is satiation. There is no benefit to fat loss efficiency versus any other form of calorie deficit. Typically people will see faster SCALE LOSS when starting a low carb or ketogenic diet due to losing more water weight.

    OP Some people do well on keto others do not. It is very restrictive and not the best for micro nutrients. Most people don't do it right anyway. I'd recommend tracking your intake and adjusting it to see your desired amount of scale loss on a rolling weekly average. Focus your food intake on mostly whole food sources and include a lot of vegetables for satiation. Avoid drinking calories and using high calorie condiments which do not provide much satiation for the calories...
    Not sure what to tell you...Good luck. Keto will result in faster scale loss initially. Stop eating carbs for a week, as glycogen drops, corresponding drop in water ( about a 3:1 ratio of water storage to glycogen in grams) will result in a rapid drop in scale weight.
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    Get your diet under control with planned moderation and balance, and track it.

    Forget Keto, it’s too much for most dedicated people to truly do correctly, much less fashionable diet followers.
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    A benefit of Keto that I'd add that I hadn't seen mentioned yet is the increase in fats seems to help a ton with joint pain.

    Being in a deficit usually means cutting fats and carbs fairly evenly. This reduction in fats seems to increase my joint pain.

    With Keto, even in a large caloric deficit, my joint pain actually is less than a balanced diet.

    As others have already said though, it is no magic bullet to weight loss. I use it because I'm way less hungry and it makes my joints feel good. Hell, on Keto I can even skip meals if I want. On a normal diet I can't stop thinking about food. Soon as one meal is done I'm waiting for my next one.
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    Originally Posted by MrNismo View Post
    A benefit of Keto that I'd add that I hadn't seen mentioned yet is the increase in fats seems to help a ton with joint pain.

    Being in a deficit usually means cutting fats and carbs fairly evenly. This reduction in fats seems to increase my joint pain.

    With Keto, even in a large caloric deficit, my joint pain actually is less than a balanced diet.

    As others have already said though, it is no magic bullet to weight loss. I use it because I'm way less hungry and it makes my joints feel good. Hell, on Keto I can even skip meals if I want. On a normal diet I can't stop thinking about food. Soon as one meal is done I'm waiting for my next one.
    What are your macros that you cut so many fats to cut?

    What is your omega 3 fatty acid/epa/dha intake + supplementation like?
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    What are your macros that you cut so many fats to cut?

    What is your omega 3 fatty acid/epa/dha intake + supplementation like?
    I haven't reduced calories any other way than Keto or PSMF in years but I always tried to keep protein around 200G, carbs around 200G which leaves 50G or less for fats.

    I take 1 fish oil capsule daily which has 980mg EPA/DHA. I have seen others on here report that taking higher doses regularly seems to help with joints but I like keto so hadn't really thought to take more fish oil instead.
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