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    Studies on LBM preservation on a cut.

    anyone have any access to LBM preservation studies on a cut? Always here 1.5g per pound LBM, but i dont believe those numbers and believe endomorphs can get away with cutting fat with minimal LBM loss.
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    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ANIMALISTIKZ View Post
    anyone have any access to LBM preservation studies on a cut? Always here 1.5g per pound LBM, but i dont believe those numbers and believe endomorphs can get away with cutting fat with minimal LBM loss.
    There is no such thing as endomorphs, or any 'morphs'; body types are pseudo science.

    Also, the minimum protein need is .7g per pound, higher on a cut might be beneficial to LBM preservation if you want it, but I doubt any noticeable difference would occur.


    Here is a study on protein needs in a calorie restriction, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765

    "CONCLUSIONS:
    Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness."
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    There is no such thing as endomorphs, or any 'morphs'; body types are pseudo science.

    Also, the minimum protein need is .7g per pound, higher on a cut might be beneficial to LBM preservation if you want it, but I doubt any noticeable difference would occur.


    Here is a study on protein needs in a calorie restriction, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765

    "CONCLUSIONS:
    Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness."

    lol body types are not pseudo science, they are categorized bodytypes based on criterion (bone structure, hormones, general metabolism) - if you look at it through the psychology lens its pseudoscience but it has broad applications. thanks for the study
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    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ANIMALISTIKZ View Post
    lol body types are not pseudo science, they are categorized bodytypes based on criterion (bone structure, hormones, general metabolism) - if you look at it through the psychology lens its pseudoscience but it has broad applications. thanks for the study
    I will simply leave it at, we will need to agree to disagree on this point; I'd rather not derail the thread.

    On topic, I would look more into protein timing if you were trying to optimize LBM retention on a cut, here is a good read on that on that, and how to optimize timing to keep MPS elevated.

    http://www.nutritiontactics.com/meas...ein-synthesis/
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    Originally Posted by ANIMALISTIKZ View Post
    thanks for the study
    good to keep in mind that Eric Helms has changed his opinion on protein intake since publishing that review.

    https://www.strongerbyscience.com/re...dying-protein/

    PS. I agree with gbullock on his view on "endomorhps".
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    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    good to keep in mind that Eric Helms has changed his opinion on protein intake since publishing that review.

    https://www.strongerbyscience.com/re...dying-protein/

    PS. I agree with gbullock on his view on "endomorhps".
    Ah, had not seen that; reading now, thanks.
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    Originally Posted by ANIMALISTIKZ View Post
    lol body types are not pseudo science, they are categorized bodytypes based on criterion (bone structure, hormones, general metabolism) - if you look at it through the psychology lens its pseudoscience but it has broad applications. thanks for the study
    You may want to read this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somato...logy#Criticism

    "Somatotype is a taxonomy developed in the 1940s by American psychologist William Herbert Sheldon to categorize the human physique according to the relative contribution of three fundamental elements which he termed "somatotypes""

    ..."His initial visual methodology has been discounted as subjective and largely discredited"




    In actuality, even the FLAWED original ideas weren't intended to be used to indicate fat-gain or muscle-gain specifically... so you're not even using bad data as it was intended...

    What is actually true:

    - Some people have BONE structures that accentuate narrow vs. wide hips/waists
    - Some people distribute more fat mass in different areas which can accentuate a broader or narrower structure
    - Some people respond differently to different foods and environmental factors which cause them to burn more or less calories, whether that is from NEAT, Hormones, leanness, fat-free mass, or a combination of those and many other things.
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    Good Lord....how boring and uninteresting would people be if the world was relegated to being just three body types
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    So a skinny teenager, who grows at age 40 to an overweight, fat man, is WHAT body type?? Does he morph or rapidly evolve?
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    So a skinny teenager, who grows at age 40 to an overweight, fat man, is WHAT body type?? Does he morph or rapidly evolve?
    We call that a John Goodman




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    well of course if you be overly technical and petty its going to be inherently disagreeable. Everyone is completely different I get that, but i also believe there are types of people that can cut without losing LBM on lower protein (categorically would be generalized as an endomorph - or an individual with high GH levels, big bone structure, easily puts on fat mass/LBM) - such as myself.. I am not looking for data to create a study on it, purely anecdotal

    AS for the study - 1.3g/bw as per his recent study - for me that is 278g of protein pretty crazy numbers of protein to get for a natural cut.
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    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ANIMALISTIKZ View Post
    well of course if you be overly technical and petty its going to be inherently disagreeable. Everyone is completely different I get that, but i also believe there are types of people that can cut without losing LBM on lower protein (categorically would be generalized as an endomorph - or an individual with high GH levels, big bone structure, easily puts on fat mass/LBM) - such as myself.. I am not looking for data to create a study on it, purely anecdotal

    AS for the study - 1.3g/bw as per his recent study - for me that is 278g of protein pretty crazy numbers of protein to get for a natural cut.
    Yeah... that would be very excessive. Try shooting for LBM instead of total weight would be my recommendation, or use goal weight.
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    Since the recommended top end of the range seems high to you, I would experiment and start toward the bottom end of the recommended protein range and then work your way up slowly (if needed) until you notice that you are no longer losing strength on your lifts. The best balance is obviously the one that allows you to maintain strength/LBM or even better increase your lifts/LBM on a cut. In the past, adding an additional 10g of protein/day on a cut stopped strength losses for me. Increasing protein was the only thing I changed. If this didn't work then I would be taking a look at my training regimen and experimenting with timing majority of my carbs pre workout.

    This may allow you to save some money on your grocery bill as well as you are eating only the protein your body actually requires.
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    Originally Posted by ANIMALISTIKZ View Post
    AS for the study - 1.3g/bw as per his recent study - for me that is 278g of protein pretty crazy numbers of protein to get for a natural cut.
    Except that his review doesn't contain 1 study that showed an LBM benefit from such a high intake.

    And several years later the guy who wrote the review, Eric Helms, changed his views: "The hypothesis that protein intakes above 1.8g/kg of total body weight will help dieters maintain muscle mass does not have strong support."

    Taking it up to 2.1 gram per kg may have a tiny benefit. Higher than that has no support, other than perhaps helping with satiety in some people.
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    Couple of things to add after lots of years doing this/reading stuff. You don't state if you're competing. This has a couple of implications. If you don't have a single day/event that you need to look your absolute 100% best for, then why does losing a few lbs of muscle even matter. You'll put them back on again when you start eating more. Also if you're not reducing your bodyfat down to the kind of levels needed to compete, losing significant amounts of LBM is less likely anyway.
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    Originally Posted by chamelious View Post
    Couple of things to add after lots of years doing this/reading stuff. You don't state if you're competing. This has a couple of implications. If you don't have a single day/event that you need to look your absolute 100% best for, then why does losing a few lbs of muscle even matter. You'll put them back on again when you start eating more. Also if you're not reducing your bodyfat down to the kind of levels needed to compete, losing significant amounts of LBM is less likely anyway.
    yeah i mean my goal is to hit 6% Bodyfat right now so im adjusting protein intake based on current bodyfat tbh. 6-10% /10%-15%/15%-20% etc
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