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  1. #1
    Registered User BGK711's Avatar
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    DC (DoggCrapp) Training

    Wondering if anyone has any experience running Dante Trudal's DC program, or even something similar to it. And if so, how was your experience on it. I'm beginning my first cycle of it currently and just was curious of others' thoughts and experiences with it.
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    Registered User BDStraining's Avatar
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    I love it and have run it for extended periods several times. One thing I would say though, is if you already aren't pretty strong, I'd not run it. It relies on low volume, intensity and high poundages- I'd class it as a fairly advanced program- if you aren't shifting relatively heavy weights, you'll not get the stress needed to progress.
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    Originally Posted by BDStraining View Post
    I love it and have run it for extended periods several times. One thing I would say though, is if you already aren't pretty strong, I'd not run it. It relies on low volume, intensity and high poundages- I'd class it as a fairly advanced program- if you aren't shifting relatively heavy weights, you'll not get the stress needed to progress.
    I can echo these sentiments.

    But I do feel strength is relative and it really comes down to intensity, so you will definitely need to be experienced enough to lay it all out day after day. It's very tough, but rewarding for sure.
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    Originally Posted by StinnerOzz View Post
    I can echo these sentiments.

    But I do feel strength is relative and it really comes down to intensity, so you will definitely need to be experienced enough to lay it all out day after day. It's very tough, but rewarding for sure.
    Trudel himself states that a minimum strength standard should be met before trying DC- It's not just down to intensity. Due to the super low volume, high poundages are a requirement. For instance- doing one rest pause set of 60kg bench won't do much at all, no matter how intensely you try; but doing 1 rest pause set with 150kg will.

    If you can't lift heavy, more volume is the way to go as it'll give far superior gains.
    S 300kg / B 200kg / D 305kg
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    Registered User jwtiger69's Avatar
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    The only thing I will add is that you should go over to IM.com (intensemuscle). That is the unofficial home of DC training.
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    echo all the comments above. Its really for strong bastards who want to pack on some muscle. Also helps if you have a spotter as you need to really go all out on those rest pause sets.
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    Registered User BGK711's Avatar
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    Greatly appreciate the feedback, guys. I've been training mostly for strength (mostly powerlifting style stuff and dabbled in Oly lifting for a bit) the past 6 years (after dicking around with typical high volume, non sense splits my first 4 years) and kind of got bored/plateaued on the same big 6 movements in the mostly 1-5 rep range I was doing over and over. Decided focusing on "bodybuilding" while keeping strength the key driver/focus for progress would be fun due to being able to rotate through multiple exercises from time to time when progress stalls. I also happen to know that my body (I'm naturally somewhat of a hard gainer) responds best to intensity and I have found the moderate rep ranges builds muscle and strength best for me. The problem with most programs is they are either too strength focused on specific movements that may not be best for each individual, or they are just a ton of volume-which would be tough for me to adapt to after pretty much constantly reducing my volume over the years. Anyway, long story short I heard someone online mentioning rest pause sets and refer to DC, so I went to IM.com and just got lost in all the forums. And obviously, for someone like me, who likes something against the grain, lower volume, moderate frequency (I know he calls it high but compared to some programs now days I'd call it moderate), etc-it just seemed right up my alley. So I'm gonna try it out and see how it goes.
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    Registered User BGK711's Avatar
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    Sorry for the length of that. But I began Sunday with cycle 1 session A1 and just finished cycle 1 session B1 today. 2 workouts in and enjoying it, but obviously working out the kinks and very early in the acclimation phase of the program. Love the rest pauses, but they sure smoke you. It really does make up for the lack of sets
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    Originally Posted by BGK711 View Post
    Sorry for the length of that. But I began Sunday with cycle 1 session A1 and just finished cycle 1 session B1 today. 2 workouts in and enjoying it, but obviously working out the kinks and very early in the acclimation phase of the program. Love the rest pauses, but they sure smoke you. It really does make up for the lack of sets
    Please post your routine so those of us with experience training DC can take a look. I would make sure you keep browsing IM and read everything you can.

    I was lucky enough to be trained by a highly regarded member of those forums who was also trained by Dr Scott Stevenson. There are very few people who Dante trust enough to train people with it. Scott and dusty Hanshaw are two of them.
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    Registered User BGK711's Avatar
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    Pretty much took the programming right from there, using some exercises that just work for me (as a result of injury or just what I respond to) but definitely would appreciate the feedback on it. Will definitely continue to read up and explore the site. Fascinating stuff.

    Session A: chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
    Session B: biceps, forearms, calves, hams, quads

    Exercises per body part (rotated across 3 sessions)

    Chest: incline DB bench, flat DB bench, hammer strength incline (this is a new one for me, trying to switch it up and get away from bb bench for the time being). 11-15 RP

    Shoulders: standing oh, seated Arnold press, hammer strength shoulder press. 11-15 RP

    Triceps: overhead cable extension, reverse grip Smith machine press, skullcrushers. 11-20 RP

    Back width: weighted chins (neutral grip), DB pullover, weighted pullups (pronated). 11-15 RP

    Back thickness: DB row, feet elevated inverted strict row (got this from 3DMJ's Alberto Nuñez), T bar row (I notice a lot of folks put 1 or 2 deadlift variants here too, you'll see I typically use those for my hamstring (hip hinge) movements, so guidence on what you think I should do is appreciated) SS 8-12 (x2 sets? Or just stick with 1?)

    Biceps: incline DB curls, cable curls, preacher curls. 11-15 RP

    Forearms: pinwheel curls, hammer curls, cable rope curls. 15-25 RP

    Calves: standing calf raise, leg press calf raise, seated calf raise. SS 1x8-12; 5 count negatives, 10 sec stretch on bottom

    Hamstrings/hip hinge: conventional deadlift or rack pulls from shins (I'll likely start with the rack pulls until I can't progress then switch to my old faithful conventional), sumo deadlift, RDL. SS 1x6-10

    Quads: zercher squats, leg press, front foot elevated reverse lunges. SS 1x4-8; 1x20 Widowmaker

    I kind of automatically interpret the muscle groups into movement patterns. So for example I interpret hamstrings as hip hinge (especially since I warm up before all training sessions with some light high rep leg curls). I'm obviously very flexible with this plan and open to suggestions, or else I wouldn't be posting on here and I'm still working out the kinks. Zercher squats are in there bc it's currently the only squat I can perform without aggravating some labral tears I have in my hip (and also I love it). I have FAI (basically an irregular hip structure shape) apparently and eventually constantly doing back squats over and over that repetitive stress on the joint caused problems with my FAI, which I did not know I had before dealing with the tears for many months. For whatever reason tho, as long as I don't support a bar on my back or shoulders I have no pain and my ROM is still ATG. Hopefully I'll be able to get back to doing front squats again comfortably without pain to add variety bc I know the front foot elevated reverse lunges will likely stall quickly. Other quad specific exercise suggestions greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
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    Registered User BGK711's Avatar
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    Looking it over some more, and reading more of Dante's stuff, I think I'll keep RDLs on "hamstrings" and move over Sumo and conventional deadlift to A day. Doing deadlifts after biceps may potentially be problematic and doing a high rep or 2 set of deadlifts AND squats to end the session B will take away from each other and crush me. I'm only a man.
    So hamstring exercises=lying leg curl, RDL, and seated leg curl-1x6-10 RDL; 15-30 RP on the curls. Back thickness=conventional deadlift, rows, sumo deadlift-1x6-9, 1x9-12. How does that look to y'all? Seems a little more in line with most of the programming on IM.com
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    At first glance you need to take a look at your exercises and rep ranges. You should also track your routine properly list all ex cerise’s in order like A1,B1,A2,B2 with rep ranges ect....


    A1
    Chest
    Shoulders
    Triceps
    Back width
    Back thickness

    B1
    Biceps
    Forearms
    Calves
    Hamstrings
    Quads

    I would make sure I am reading everything I can at IM. Exercise section is key and you need to pick exercises that you can progress on. You have a lot of deadlift variations. Drop some of those. Lower back integrity will be important. . Your quad exercises are not very good. Stick squats, leg presses, hack squats. Drop the cable work for triceps. Drop the pullovers ( can you really progress on those?) Dumbbell exercises should be high rep ranges. Can you safely get up heavy dubs on you last minder when you are trying for 1-3 reps?
    Last edited by jwtiger69; 01-10-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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    i heard it's decent
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    Originally Posted by BDStraining View Post
    Trudel himself states that a minimum strength standard should be met before trying DC- It's not just down to intensity. Due to the super low volume, high poundages are a requirement. For instance- doing one rest pause set of 60kg bench won't do much at all, no matter how intensely you try; but doing 1 rest pause set with 150kg will.

    If you can't lift heavy, more volume is the way to go as it'll give far superior gains.
    I guess I didn't figure someone so "unstrong" would be employing this technique. I was looking at your stats and thinking you were far beyond most people yourself.
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    Ya those were some things I was playing around with. Thanks for the tips. I have the exercises all selected and assigned specific days, I just didn't list it that way for time sake. I use A1, B1, A2, B2, A3, B3 just bc it's easier mentally for me to process that for the 2 day split. I will definitely bump up the reps on the DBs-you think like 15-25 RP? And ya as I was looking over it I was thinking the same thing for deadlifts, I'll drop one in exchange for another row variation. Also, I figure I should probably swap out a leg curl for Barbell hip thrust. And figured for the DB press variations I'd focus on progressing reps first before bumping up weights, that way I'm still able to progressively overload each session (double progression style) bc of course it's difficult to continually add 5 lbs each week to DB movements, especially when your gym only has up to 120 lbs.
    It's been awhile since I've had to open up the toolbox and do as much exercise variation. Looking forward to the challenge and variations though. Thanks again
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    Originally Posted by BGK711 View Post
    Ya those were some things I was playing around with. Thanks for the tips. I have the exercises all selected and assigned specific days, I just didn't list it that way for time sake. I use A1, B1, A2, B2, A3, B3 just bc it's easier mentally for me to process that for the 2 day split. I will definitely bump up the reps on the DBs-you think like 15-25 RP? And ya as I was looking over it I was thinking the same thing for deadlifts, I'll drop one in exchange for another row variation. Also, I figure I should probably swap out a leg curl for Barbell hip thrust. And figured for the DB press variations I'd focus on progressing reps first before bumping up weights, that way I'm still able to progressively overload each session (double progression style) bc of course it's difficult to continually add 5 lbs each week to DB movements, especially when your gym only has up to 120 lbs.
    It's been awhile since I've had to open up the toolbox and do as much exercise variation. Looking forward to the challenge and variations though. Thanks again
    I would differently make sure you have your whole routine typed up on your computer or a piece of paper. That was you can see any and all overlap between exercises. Still looking at your above it is hard to keep track. Also I think many of us would still like to see your full your routine written out properly with all rep ranges with it. And again you need to make sure you read through the other forum and check out the stickies.
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    Ya I've got it all typed up. I've always had to have any program typed up and copied on my phone so I don't run into issues.

    The reps are labeled initially as the total amount including rest pause (Rp) sets, and then in parentheses I just included the rep range of the top set (my 1 true working set) I'm shooting to reach failure in before the rest pauses. Training days are M/W/F

    I know these are a little out of order from the website (and I realize this is an unforgivable sin and some may say that bc of it I'm not doing DC and I'm ok with that. This is just a DC inspired program in that case), but I find for example working triceps last on "A" day has been best bc fatigued triceps negatively impacts my heavy vertical pulls (it pre-exhausts the lats bc of where the long head of the tricep and lat attach), and personally I care more about maximizing my chins/pull-up work rather than triceps. This is just a personal preference for me. Same with the calves-doing a Widowmaker squat/leg press is death, but doing it after crying during calf raises Dante's style is just mentally agonizing. So I know these are a little off "the program" but as of now it's worked for me.

    Critiques and advice welcome, as always. Just finished A2 today, and early on I am really enjoying this style of training. It is brutally challenging but it feels great for me. You'll notice I'm doing a bit more reps on some things due to the sound advice from jwtiger69, and coming from a background of doing mostly <5 reps the past several years, doing heavy, slightly higher rep work is a fun change. Still getting the hang of the "extreme stretches."

    Session A1: incline DB bench press-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 2: weighted neutral grip chins-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 3: ohp-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 4: conventional deadlift-1x6-9, 1x9-12
    Ex 5: cable overhead extensions-20-30 Rp (12-15 top set)

    Session B1
    Ex 1: incline DB curls-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 2: DB seated hammer curls-15-25 (12-15 top set)
    Ex 3: BB hip thrust-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 4: paused zercher squats-SS 1x6-12,1x20
    Ex 5: standing calf raise-1x8-12

    Session A2
    Ex 1: flat DB bench press-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 2: supinated lat pulldown-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 3: plate loaded machine ohp-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 4: SA DB rows-SS 2x8-12
    Ex 5: skullcrushers-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    Session B2
    Ex 1: cable curls-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 2: DB pinwheel curls-15-25 Rp (12-15 top set)
    Ex 3: seated leg curl-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 4: front foot elevated reverse lunge-SS 1x6-12,1x20 (may try box squats here. Will have to see how hip responds to it but if it feels good, box squats would definitely be a better option for me)
    Ex 5: leg press calf raises-SS 1x8-12

    Session A3
    Ex 1: incline machine press-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 2: weighted pullups (pronated grip)-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 3: seated DB Arnold press-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 4: T-Bar rows-SS 2x8-12
    Ex 5: Smith machine reverse grip BP-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    Session B3
    Ex 1: preacher curls-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 2: cable reverse curls or rope curls-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 3: RDL-SS 2x6-12
    Ex 4: leg press-SS 1x6-12,1x20
    Ex 5: seated calves-1x8-12
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    Oh! And again, if anyone has any suggestions for good, compound quad/squat pattern exercises, please let me know. When I plateau on the ones I have now I'm gonna need some new exercise suggestions.
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    Originally Posted by BGK711 View Post
    Oh! And again, if anyone has any suggestions for good, compound quad/squat pattern exercises, please let me know. When I plateau on the ones I have now I'm gonna need some new exercise suggestions.

    Thanks for posting in a more readable format. I will post suggestions when I get a chance. I know you are not doing a true DC routine. Remember this program was written in a certain style and order for a reason. You mentioned you feel fatigued after a few excercises. I would still suggest doing it as it laid out. Just think in about 5-6 months from now if you can add 20-30 or more pounds on some lifts... growth!!!! Also do not forget about the extreme stretching. That is super important. Do the stretch after each internees exercise. That will also give you a few more minutes of rest while you recover and set up for you next lift.
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    Session A1: incline DB bench press-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 2: weighted neutral grip chins-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 3: ohp-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 4: conventional deadlift-1x6-9, 1x9-12
    Ex 5: cable overhead extensions-20-30 Rp (12-15 top set)

    ^ Maybe use DB’s instead or skulls or machine dips?


    Session B1
    Ex 1: incline DB curls-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    ^15-20rp or 20-25rp

    Ex 2: DB seated hammer curls-15-25 (12-15 top set)
    Ex 3: BB hip thrust-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    ^ Can you really progress on these? Maybe try straight sets with them if you really want to use them instead of RP sets.

    Ex 4: paused zercher squats-SS 1x6-12,1x20

    ^ Might be hard to hold the bar during your widow maker. Do 2 sets before your widow maker. Like 6-8 then 10-12/

    Ex 5: standing calf raise-1x8-12

    Session A2
    Ex 1: flat DB bench press-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 2: supinated lat pulldown-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 3: plate loaded machine ohp-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 4: SA DB rows-SS 2x8-12

    ^ Try 6-8 then 10-12. More variation in the reps.

    Ex 5: skullcrushers-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    ^ Try 15-20 or 20-25 for you Rp set.

    Session B2
    Ex 1: cable curls-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    ^ Try 15-20 or 20-25 for you Rp set.

    Ex 2: DB pinwheel curls-15-25 Rp (12-15 top set)
    Ex 3: seated leg curl-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 4: front foot elevated reverse lunge-SS 1x6-12,1x20 (may try box squats here. Will have to see how hip responds to it but if it feels good, box squats would definitely be a better option for me)

    ^ Do 2 sets before your widow maker. Like 6-8 then 10-12.Also stick with more bang for the buck movements. Hacks, squats, leg presses ect. Can you really progress doing these?

    Ex 5: leg press calf raises-SS 1x8-12

    Session A3
    Ex 1: incline machine press-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)
    Ex 2: weighted pullups (pronated grip)-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    ^Might be hard to progress on pullups. Try it and see.
    Ex 3: seated DB Arnold press-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)

    ^Can you really progress on these?

    Ex 4: T-Bar rows-SS 2x8-12

    ^ Try 6-8 then 10-12. More variation in the reps.

    Ex 5: Smith machine reverse grip BP-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    Session B3
    Ex 1: preacher curls-11-15 Rp (7-10 top set)

    ^ Try 15-20 or 20-25 for you Rp set.
    Ex 2: cable reverse curls or rope curls-15-25 Rp (10-15 top set)
    Ex 3: RDL-SS 2x6-12

    ^ Try 6-8 then 10-12. More variation in the reps..

    Ex 4: leg press-SS 1x6-12,1x20

    Do 2 sets before your widow maker. Like 6-8 then 10-12.

    Ex 5: seated calves-1x8-12


    My comments are in bold. There is a great thread called "General guidelines and tips for a DC Routine (assuming you are under 34)". Or something along those lines. As i mentioned before I would follow this as it is written regarding the order of lifts/bodyparts.
    Last edited by jwtiger69; 01-11-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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    No help for this one.... Squid24's Avatar
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    From reading above ^^^^^^^^^^...this is NOT a program for me...lol
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    No help for this one.... Squid24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jwtiger69 View Post
    Not for everyone.... My shoulders can't handle it very well. This is also the standard program. You should see what i was given when I was being trained under someone.
    My shoulder can't handle taking a milk jug out of top shelf of refer.....I tore something in there...
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    Barbell hack squats were great for me. And I "fondly" recall a Widowmaker set making me throw up once...
    Lifting. Hockey. Headbanging.

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    Also to the OP... Make sure you always have your logbook at the gym. Each and every time you go you are fighting against it. You either need to beat your previous reps or add weight each and every time. If you stall out on a lift 2-3 times then you need to swap it out. That means if you fail to add any reps or weight (no progress) then you go to something else and come back to that lift again later. You should probably have a list of 5-6 exercises for each body part that you can rotate through it needed.
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    Originally Posted by Squid24 View Post
    My shoulder can't handle taking a milk jug out of top shelf of refer.....I tore something in there...
    It is pretty rough... Responding to all of this makes me want to do another run on it for a few months and see what happens. I am not sure my shoulders can handle it for a long period of time.



    Originally Posted by StinnerOzz View Post
    Barbell hack squats were great for me. And I "fondly" recall a Widowmaker set making me throw up once...

    Many times this has happened!
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    Thanks. And ya, bb hack squats is a good one. Unfortunately unless I have surgery on my hip, I likely won't be able to back squat again, which is actually okay with me bc I am a pretty good zercher squatter and am built decently for the lift, but I feel like I'll be able to do front squats again if I make them a paused variation, but just being patient with it; and maybe some smith machine variations (I've always avoided smith machine like the plague, but from what I read it seems like a pretty vaible option for alot of exercises with this style of training).

    Thanks again for all the advice. Will implement it into the program.
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