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  1. #1
    Registered User namewastaken1's Avatar
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    Dangerous suggestion in the "AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI"

    Q12: Can I substitute any of the exercises in this routine for other exercises?
    A: as a general rule, no, you can't (barring certain situations where an injury may prevent you from doing a specific movement). One exception being the curls, which can be substituted for standing upright rows (LINK). This is more of a compound exercise and it actually fits the rest of the routine more nicely. Curls were added by all pro mostly because "everyone would want to do them anyway", so if your ego will survive it, go for the upright rows instead of the curls - it's a far better overall body exercise. Up to you though.

    According to Jeff (AthleanX) upright rows are dangerous in the long run. He explains it thoroughly. Maybe that suggestion from the sticky should be taken out.

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    Why don't you explain to us why you believe upright rows are dangerous in the long run?
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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    According to Jeff (AthleanX) upright rows are dangerous in the long run. He explains it thoroughly. Maybe that suggestion from the sticky should be taken out.
    According to Jordan Feigenbaum, AthleanX lacks credibility.

    If you suspect there's a problem, do your own research. Both exercises can lead to issues in certain individuals under certain circumstances. That doesn't mean that either is inherently dangerous.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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    Registered User namewastaken1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Why don't you explain to us why you believe upright rows are dangerous in the long run?
    So, everything that is on this site as a sticky shall not be questioned. Even if a very known and knowledgeable person who obviously knows what he's talking about has a different opinion, it is nullified because I wont explain in my own words again why they are dangerous? What's the point of me paraphrasing Jeff?


    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    According to Jordan Feigenbaum, AthleanX lacks credibility.

    If you suspect there's a problem, do your own research. Both exercises can lead to issues in certain individuals under certain circumstances. That doesn't mean that either is inherently dangerous.
    He explains it very well how that exercise IS inherently dangerous. I don't know why you're just turning a blind eye on it.
    I'm not gonna say everything he says is right. But so far I have an EXPLANATION from a physiotherapist and personal trainer of professional atheles on why an exercise is bad. I don't think it's a good idea to promote it that is all I'm saying.

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    Nothing wrong with questioning things and doing exercises that you feel better about doing. But to exclude certain movements because some claim they are dangerous isn't going to happen. Any exercise can be dangerous if performed incorrectly.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    So, everything that is on this site as a sticky shall not be questioned. Even if a very known and knowledgeable person who obviously knows what he's talking about has a different opinion, it is nullified because I wont explain in my own words again why they are dangerous? What's the point of me paraphrasing Jeff?
    I don't know (or care) anything about who it is you are talking about. You just joined the site and proclaimed an exercise many have known and done for decades is bad and shouldn't be recommended. How about telling us why?

    And no, we don't care for random totally new accounts to start name dropping with the intention of getting people to go visit a specific other website...



    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    He explains it very well how that exercise IS inherently dangerous. I don't know why you're just turning a blind eye on it.
    I'm not gonna say everything he says is right. But so far I have an EXPLANATION from a physiotherapist and personal trainer of professional atheles on why an exercise is bad. I don't think it's a good idea to promote it that is all I'm saying.
    Share with us something about that EXPLANATION, would you?

    PS: Being a personal trainer probably carries negative influence around here, as most personal trainers are clueless morons spreading bad info
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    Registered User sqal's Avatar
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    I doubt he's trying to get people to follow AthleanX. He's one of the more popular you tube fitness channels.

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    Registered User namewastaken1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    I don't know (or care) anything about who it is you are talking about. You just joined the site and proclaimed an exercise many have known and done for decades is bad and shouldn't be recommended. How about telling us why?

    And no, we don't care for random totally new accounts to start name dropping with the intention of getting people to go visit a specific other website...





    Share with us something about that EXPLANATION, would you?

    PS: Being a personal trainer probably carries negative influence around here, as most personal trainers are clueless morons spreading bad info
    The combination of internally rotated shoulders and lifting the shoulders upwards anatomically creates a pinching of tendons in the shoulder joint.

    If you think I am saying this to advertise the most known fitness youtube channel of all times, you are mistaken.

  9. #9
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    I just can't do upright row , whenever I do this movement I get a sharp irritating pain in my shoulders

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    Well, to be fair, Jeff (AthleanX) has made a video on almost every exercise out there to tell us how dangerous it is and should not be done.

    It's one of the reason I don't listen to him anymore. Done wrong, it's dangerous. Done with too much weight, it is dangerous.

    Some people have had great success with it and others not. That is why people do all sort of different exercises.

    If it scares you, don't do it. Find another alternative. There are lots of them out there.

    I don't do them, but to say they should be banned, is ill-informed.

    Hell, go see most Doctors and they will tell you never lift weights and never to sports. They are way too dangerous.

    Jeff (AthleanX) is not not making stuff up, but he is exaggerating things quite a bit. If he didn't, no one would watch his videos.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by rlefebvr View Post
    Well, to be fair, Jeff (AthleanX) has made a video on almost every exercise out there to tell us how dangerous it is and should not be done.

    It's one of the reason I don't listen to him anymore. Done wrong, it's dangerous. Done with too much weight, it is dangerous.

    Some people have had great success with it and others not. That is why people do all sort of different exercises.

    If it scares you, don't do it. Find another alternative. There are lots of them out there.

    I don't do them, but to say they should be banned, is ill-informed.

    Hell, go see most Doctors and they will tell you never lift weights and never to sports. They are way too dangerous.

    Jeff (AthleanX) is not not making stuff up, but he is exaggerating things quite a bit. If he didn't, no one would watch his videos.
    But the last video says I can get ripped from a beginner ab workout that works in 5 minutes
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    Originally Posted by sqal View Post
    I doubt he's trying to get people to follow AthleanX. He's one of the more popular you tube fitness channels.
    And You Tube is filled with cranks and frauds. One needs to be careful about who they follow.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    But the last video says I can get ripped from a beginner ab workout that works in 5 minutes
    Yeah, saw that one too. Didn't check it out. Maybe he is still hung over from the holidays..

    :-)
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by sqal View Post
    I doubt he's trying to get people to follow AthleanX. He's one of the more popular you tube fitness channels.
    thats like saying everyone should do connor murphy workouts cuz hes "aesthetic" !

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    I developed shoulder pain doing upright rows. Had to stop them.

    Then I started doing them again with a different width grip. Great exercise.

    Devil's in the details.

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    When I first started lifting, I was afraid to do OHP because I didn't trust my back stability. I went for upright rows instead. I had nice results, and no issues.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    64 and still a newbie.

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    Jeff Cavaliere is an unpdated physical therapist, who is more busy being a successful youtuber, than a professional who keeps up with the science he so claims to be behind his material.

    He many times spreads invalidated, poorly based (or disproven) hypotheses, and he doesn't bother using drama, dichotomous thinking, and even lies if it serves his ways.

    The thing is - he creates a solid image, than can easily fool those who can't tell.

    Watch his content if you are interested in learning some cool, creative accessory movements...

    But be very wary of his "medical" content, as he, more often than not, scares his audience for no reason.

    -----

    P.S. For someone who claims to be advocate of the basics, I find it weird that what he promotes is the tiny things that don't matter...Now, he's (supposedly) been training the Jesse for a while now...How come that guy is still considerably weak? (For a young trainee, who had a coach to guide him).
    Last edited by Damnentia; 01-08-2019 at 03:28 AM.

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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    So, everything that is on this site as a sticky shall not be questioned. Even if a very known and knowledgeable person who obviously knows what he's talking about has a different opinion, it is nullified because I wont explain in my own words again why they are dangerous? What's the point of me paraphrasing Jeff?




    He explains it very well how that exercise IS inherently dangerous. I don't know why you're just turning a blind eye on it.
    I'm not gonna say everything he says is right. But so far I have an EXPLANATION from a physiotherapist and personal trainer of professional atheles on why an exercise is bad. I don't think it's a good idea to promote it that is all I'm saying.
    -Are you referring to the "Shoulder Impingement Syndrome" he likes spouting about, a "syndrome" that doesn't even exist?

    -Or to that time when he used a skeleton model, to show how the bone structure isn't supposed to support exercises done behind the neck, all while conveniently "forgetting" that the scapula can move?

    -Now I wonder what his explanation about "exercises that cause hernia" are. (because hernia is mostly genetic).

    -Or why he has made so many videos regarding "fixing" posture "problems" that are not even a problem.

    -Or why he has videos dedicated to foam rolling...when "myofacscial release" is as "scientific" as acupuncture...

    -----

    *Olympic Weightlifters lift extremely heavy weights in front of their body with internally rotated shoulders dozens (if not hundreds) of times daily, and many press heavy weights behind the necks on a regular basis...

    If those exercises are so inherently dangerous, then why can such athletes train starting from childhood and win medals at their 40s?
    Last edited by Damnentia; 01-08-2019 at 03:31 AM.

  19. #19
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    Upright row should be fine if your shoulders are in good condition. I do them a lot and they only improve my shoulders and traps. If your shoulders don't like them then aim to fix the issue first before writing them off.

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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    According to Jeff (AthleanX) upright rows are dangerous in the long run. He explains it thoroughly. Maybe that suggestion from the sticky should be taken out.







    Maybe it's "athlene x" that should be "taken out" instead.

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    Do them with a wider grip, no issues
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    Originally Posted by rlefebvr View Post
    Well, to be fair, Jeff (AthleanX) has made a video on almost every exercise out there to tell us how dangerous it is and should not be done.

    It's one of the reason I don't listen to him anymore. Done wrong, it's dangerous. Done with too much weight, it is dangerous.

    Some people have had great success with it and others not. That is why people do all sort of different exercises.

    If it scares you, don't do it. Find another alternative. There are lots of them out there.

    I don't do them, but to say they should be banned, is ill-informed.

    Hell, go see most Doctors and they will tell you never lift weights and never to sports. They are way too dangerous.

    Jeff (AthleanX) is not not making stuff up, but he is exaggerating things quite a bit. If he didn't, no one would watch his videos.
    Not True. He does it on the exercises that have the most potential to be dangerous and he points out what part of the movement is dangerous and how to avoid it.
    He might have clickbaity titles, that's the only negative thing you can say against him. You clearly don't watch his content.

    He rarerly says "this exercise is generally a bad exercise and you should avoid doing it and do XY instead". He does say it for upright rows though, so I am pointing it out.

  23. #23
    Registered User Ghawk21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    Not True. He does it on the exercises that have the most potential to be dangerous and he points out what part of the movement is dangerous and how to avoid it.
    He might have clickbaity titles, that's the only negative thing you can say against him. You clearly don't watch his content.

    He rarerly says "this exercise is generally a bad exercise and you should avoid doing it and do XY instead". He does say it for upright rows though, so I am pointing it out.
    You can do this for damn near any exercise in the gym. If you don't want to do the upright row do a different program or do the curls. Not rocket appliances here.
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    Originally Posted by Damnentia View Post
    Jeff Cavaliere is an unpdated physical therapist, who is more busy being a successful youtuber, than a professional who keeps up with the science he so claims to be behind his material.

    He many times spreads invalidated, poorly based (or disproven) hypotheses, and he doesn't bother using drama, dichotomous thinking, and even lies if it serves his ways.

    The thing is - he creates a solid image, than can easily fool those who can't tell.

    Watch his content if you are interested in learning some cool, creative accessory movements...

    But be very wary of his "medical" content, as he, more often than not, scares his audience for no reason.

    -----

    P.S. For someone who claims to be advocate of the basics, I find it weird that what he promotes is the tiny things that don't matter...Now, he's (supposedly) been training the Jesse for a while now...How come that guy is still considerably weak? (For a young trainee, who had a coach to guide him).
    Thank you for pretty much the only constructive comment here. Well I can't blame him for focusing on being a successful youtuber, that's paying at least 7 figures a year.
    There are some things where, as I pointed out earlier, his titles seem to make things look worse than they are, but most of the times when you accualy watch the video he points out what exactly he means and it's rarely as exaggerated as the title makes it out to be.

    I don't find it weird, it is obvious that he is just desperately trying to get out content as that's making him money. So he is promoting the tiny things. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just saying i see the reason why.
    I completely agree with you that Jesse is really small for the time he is been under Jeff's wings. I commented that on one of his videos as well. I believe it's because of Jeffs fear of body fat. He has a very biased view on bulking. I will gain more strengh and muscle than Jeff in 6 months than he has in 2 years and i believe it's because he is not eating enough.

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    Originally Posted by Damnentia View Post
    -Are you referring to the "Shoulder Impingement Syndrome" he likes spouting about, a "syndrome" that doesn't even exist?

    -Or to that time when he used a skeleton model, to show how the bone structure isn't supposed to support exercises done behind the neck, all while conveniently "forgetting" that the scapula can move?

    -Now I wonder what his explanation about "exercises that cause hernia" are. (because hernia is mostly genetic).

    -Or why he has made so many videos regarding "fixing" posture "problems" that are not even a problem.

    -Or why he has videos dedicated to foam rolling...when "myofacscial release" is as "scientific" as acupuncture...

    -----

    *Olympic Weightlifters lift extremely heavy weights in front of their body with internally rotated shoulders dozens (if not hundreds) of times daily, and many press heavy weights behind the necks on a regular basis...

    If those exercises are so inherently dangerous, then why can such athletes train starting from childhood and win medals at their 40s?
    You're right on some things obviously, but i can't agree with everything, especially on a practical level.
    To add one to your list, the "butt wink" during squats is the spine getting into neutral position, which is normal, and he talks about it like the slightest butt wink is the worst thing that could happen.

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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    You can do this for damn near any exercise in the gym. If you don't want to do the upright row do a different program or do the curls. Not rocket appliances here.
    You're missing my point. This post was about the upright rows. If an exercise is a potential for injury for a more significant amount of people than other exercises, I believe it is a bad idea to suggest it in a BEGINNERS STICKY.

    Obviously if you are more advanced you will know for yourself which things are personally not fitting for you.

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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    You're missing my point. This post was about the upright rows. If an exercise is a potential for injury for a more significant amount of people than other exercises, I believe it is a bad idea to suggest it in a BEGINNERS STICKY.

    Obviously if you are more advanced you will know for yourself which things are personally not fitting for you.
    Squat, benchpress and deadlift all have significant injury risk. Weight training is not without risk.

    We have to draw a line with the nannying somewhere. I don't believe UR is worse than any of those.

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    Originally Posted by namewastaken1 View Post
    You're missing my point. This post was about the upright rows. If an exercise is a potential for injury for a more significant amount of people than other exercises, I believe it is a bad idea to suggest it in a BEGINNERS STICKY.

    Obviously if you are more advanced you will know for yourself which things are personally not fitting for you.
    Right and I'm disagreeing. Its just like any other exercise that when done properly is fine and when done improperly can cause problems. In my 2ish years on these forums I'm yet to see someone come on complaining they hurt themselves doing upright rows. Squats and deadlifts on the other hand are here on the daily. Should we remove those from beginner programs too?
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    Enough.

    Nothing is going to be 'taken out' the All Pro thread, especially not because of the ramblings of some yt salesman.
    No brain, no gain.

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    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

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