Bro Split?

[Gaston40]

Fwiw i pretty muchndo full body.

Squat
Rdl
Incline
Flat
Barbell rows
Pullups

No issues...but I don't want a Ferrari, i just want a pension to retire.

[LactoseTolerant]

but I squat more than this man? Dl more, curl more, bench more?

Just curious, how much is that?

[etet1919]

The short answer is because every study done has shown them to be an inferior way to train when compared to full body or upper/lower for natural lifters. The pros don't have to worry about protein synthesis since their bodies are in a consistent anabolic state.

When you say "the pros don't have to worry about protein synthesis," does that mean recreational lifters (including experienced lifters) can unintentionally "damage" their muscle tissue by not allowing temporary microscopic tissue repairs to fully rebuild, especially if recovery time is not sufficient? So, an experienced lifter may believe they are always making gains with "bro splits," but maybe it is not an accurate measure of potential for some? I ask because I recently read an article on how "tempo of movement effects volume training," and in that article they mentioned "extended duration of muscle tension stimulated protein synthesis," but I wasn't sure what the process meant. Thanks in advance!

[TAWS6]

To me, it just appears that the sheer amount of people who I see personally in the gym, my friends included and people on various forums all seem to get pretty jacked in approximately a year, but generally they have transformed their bodies in 4-6 months using high volume bro splits.

I could show you my two close friends who started lifting around the same time as me who have went from fat to jacked, roughly same stats starting out as me, biceps now fill out shirts and their overall physique is great in the same amount of time as me.. even though I could probably outlift them in terms of weight. How can I tell them that what they're doing is wrong when they look like they have years of training on me? Lol.

The thing is just because someone gets jacked on a bro split that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have gotten even better results using a less extreme approach to training such as upper/lower or PPL. You can make gains on a bro split, I've done it in the past. It just isn't what I'd suggest.

When you say "the pros don't have to worry about protein synthesis," does that mean recreational lifters (including experienced lifters) can unintentionally "damage" their muscle tissue by not allowing temporary microscopic tissue repairs to fully rebuild, especially if recovery time is not sufficient? So, an experienced lifter may believe they are always making gains with "bro splits," but maybe it is not an accurate measure of potential for some? I ask because I recently read an article on how "tempo of movement effects volume training," and in that article they mentioned "extended duration of muscle tension stimulated protein synthesis," but I wasn't sure what the process meant. Thanks in advance!

I meant people like Jay cutler who are not natural. This wouldn't apply to recreational lifters.

[FDRD1]

The thing is just because someone gets jacked on a bro split that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have gotten even better results using a less extreme approach to training such as upper/lower or PPL. You can make gains on a bro split, I've done it in the past. It just isn't what I'd suggest.

Have a look around just this thread, including my friend. Some of these huge dudes who recommend I noobies do 5x5 have all done brosplits themselves, and not actually practised what they're preaching; and I mean that with no disrespect intended. Just stating some facts. It's not just some*one*. It's everyone I've came across who have done brosplits look awesome, even just these past few commenters!

If brosplits aren't optimal for a noobie now, when do they suddenly become optimal? When I have met specific strength goals?

Bro splits may not be recommended around here but that doesn’t mean they don’t work. It depends on what works for you. Only through trial and error can you determine what the best routine is for yourself.

I understand this, but suggesting this is met with bitter taste.

Fwiw i pretty muchndo full body.

Squat
Rdl
Incline
Flat
Barbell rows
Pullups

No issues...but I don't want a Ferrari, i just want a pension to retire.

And you look like a tough dude! But if you look at these other guys in the thread who all done brosplits, it's a different kind of body they have, would you agree? I personally want to strive for my perception of the Ferrari of bodies; and I want to be effective as possible in doing so.

Someone suggested to me doing high rep versions of Fierce 5 for good results, and only increasing the weight when I could do X amount of reps for the first set whilst another person suggested I just cut the weight, do 12 reps x 5 sets and increase by 2.5kg a workout, apparently this would be kinder to my joints etc?

[Gaston40]

And you look like a tough dude! But if you look at these other guys in the thread who all done brosplits, it's a different kind of body they have, would you agree? I personally want to strive for my perception of the Ferrari of bodies; and I want to be effective as possible in doing

One of the worst things you can do in the iron game besides jumping programs every few weeks, is comparing your lifts and progress to what others are doing.

So...with that said, every body is different and responds to training differently. Im stronger and leaner that I was 12-6 months ago...so idgaf what others are doing. Im just working on my progress.

Do what you want...thats pretty much what evertone os saying since your mind is already made up

[FDRD1]

One of the worst things you can do in the iron game besides jumping programs every few weeks, is comparing your lifts and progress to what others are doing.

So...with that said, every body is different and responds to training differently. Im stronger and leaner that I was 12-6 months ago...so idgaf what others are doing. Im just working on my progress.

Do what you want...thats pretty much what evertone os saying since your mind is already made up

If my mind was made up I wouldn't be here, lol. As it stands I've just finished a Fierce 5 session.

I'm reading more and more studies siding with what everyone is saying.. but there are still people who disagree with things being said here, and the results alot of other people have had is enough to question it, no? Not just one or two people, a whole bunch of people with similar trends in progression.

I'm just a little fat dude trying to look better, lol. So far these strength programs haven't done anything for me. Apart from make me stronger.

[FaIIen]

I'm just a little fat dude trying to look better, lol. So far these strength programs haven't done anything for me. Apart from make me stronger.

And what do you reckon would've happened with a bro split?

[FDRD1]

And what do you reckon would've happened with a bro split?

I was hoping I'd experience similar results to my friends and people on this thread and look like I lift atleast, lol.

[Ghawk21]

If my mind was made up I wouldn't be here, lol. As it stands I've just finished a Fierce 5 session.

I'm reading more and more studies siding with what everyone is saying.. but there are still people who disagree with things being said here, and the results alot of other people have had is enough to question it, no? Not just one or two people, a whole bunch of people with similar trends in progression.

I'm just a little fat dude trying to look better, lol. So far these strength programs haven't done anything for me. Apart from make me stronger.

I'll touch on a couple of your posts. From earlier, the fact some people have done bro splits in the past as well as 5x5(or any strength program) and now suggest the 5x5 is optimal is quite telling. A lot of famous bodybuilders started with programs similar to 5x5 as well and the common theme across all novice programs is a 3 day full body. These are programs written by guys who been in the industry and iron game for a helluva long time. Everyone here agrees people will see progress on a bro split, you can see progress on damn near anything if you're consistent, even more so when you're new. What we also agree on is the recent research on optimal frequency, which a bro split will not get you.

On to this current post. You're a little chunky as you admit, which is fine and normal in new people. You're not going to notice something in the mirror as quickly as someone with lower body fat. People with lower body fat appear bigger, their muscles pop more, what you're going for now is building up your muscles so when you cut down (via diet) you have muscle to show off.

Marathon my friend, not a sprint. Stay consistent and you'll see progress (on F5 or anything) but don't get discouraged comparing yourself to others. You're not them, different genetics, different starting point, different diet etc. There will always be people bigger, stronger, faster and that's fine.

[FaIIen]

I was hoping I'd experience similar results to my friends and people on this thread and look like I lift atleast, lol.

So you were hoping to gain muscle? You should be on a caloric surplus if that is the case.

Given your current composition - cutting does not sound like an awful idea either. But if losing fat is your goal, you should be consuming less calories to force a deficit, which will hinder your muscle gain. Newbies do often gain some muscle even on a deficit, so you might actually look somewhat like you lift if you drop some fat. Views may vary.

[FDRD1]

Here is my problem with cutting: I genuinely haven't built any secret muscle. I cut down to nothing, see for yourself:

10/07/2018 fat: ibb.co/k9zC0Zh
ibb.co/qxGwhJJ

21/09/2018 cut down: ibb.co/7JxmvQT
Ibb.co/DR6qrcQ

01/12/2018 fat again: ibb.co/NrmXqWZ
ibb.co/rvs82WV

Now you can see my desperation for results, lol!

[TAWS6]

Have a look around just this thread, including my friend. Some of these huge dudes who recommend I noobies do 5x5 have all done brosplits themselves, and not actually practised what they're preaching; and I mean that with no disrespect intended. Just stating some facts. It's not just some*one*. It's everyone I've came across who have done brosplits look awesome, even just these past few commenters!

If brosplits aren't optimal for a noobie now, when do they suddenly become optimal? When I have met specific strength goals?
?

They really never become optimal but sometimes doing what you enjoy is more important than getting faster results. When you're only training a muscle group once a week versus 2 or 3 times obviously you are going to see slower progress but that doesn't mean that the results won't even out by the end of around the 5 year mark. However by that time a bro split will almost certainly give you a lot of muscle imbalances which is a whole other discussion.

[FaIIen]

Here is my problem with cutting: I genuinely haven't built any secret muscle. I cut down to nothing, see for yourself:

10/07/2018 fat: ibb.co/k9zC0Zh
ibb.co/qxGwhJJ

21/09/2018 cut down: ibb.co/7JxmvQT
Ibb.co/DR6qrcQ

01/12/2018 fat again: ibb.co/NrmXqWZ
ibb.co/rvs82WV

Now you can see my desperation for results, lol!

How much is the weight variation between those pictures?

[Sqwatzhurtbad]

Here is my problem with cutting: I genuinely haven't built any secret muscle. I cut down to nothing, see for yourself:

10/07/2018 fat: ibb.co/k9zC0Zh
ibb.co/qxGwhJJ

21/09/2018 cut down: ibb.co/7JxmvQT
Ibb.co/DR6qrcQ

01/12/2018 fat again: ibb.co/NrmXqWZ
ibb.co/rvs82WV

Now you can see my desperation for results, lol!

Your cut looked pretty good, How did you manage your diet in the 9 week bulk after that though? looks like you put on a lot more weight than you should if your monitoring your weight and adjusting calories to be in a slight calorific surplus? I'd probably look at your diet/lifting consistency more than the program tbh.

[FDRD1]

How much is the weight variation between those pictures?

First ones: 175 lbs

Second: around 155 lbs

Third: 181 lbs

Your cut looked pretty good, How did you manage your diet in the 9 week bulk after that though? looks like you put on a lot more weight than you should if your monitoring your weight and adjusting calories to be in a slight calorific surplus? I'd probably look at your diet/lifting consistency more than the program tbh.

The weight was going down like clockwork, but then I struggled to progress the bar so ate more and more and more until I could.

[Ghawk21]

First ones: 175 lbs

Second: around 155 lbs

Third: 181 lbs



The weight was going down like clockwork, but then I struggled to progress the bar so ate more and more and more until I could.

You gained 26lbs in ~2.5 months. You should be aiming for somehting like 2-4lbs/month to limit fat gain. That right there is your problem.

[FDRD1]

You gained 26lbs in ~2.5 months. You should be aiming for somehting like 2-4lbs/month to limit fat gain. That right there is your problem.

I think some of it is waterweight, but I couldn't progress the bar otherwise..

I've previously cut down to 128: ibb.co/7yX3gNP and ibb.co/5ndm8bb

I'm fine with cutting but can't gain muscle. Doesn't feel like these routines work that way? I stall, deload, sleep more etc but still need to eat more to progress the weight

[FaIIen]

I think some of it is waterweight, but I couldn't progress the bar otherwise..

I've previously cut down to 128: ibb.co/7yX3gNP and ibb.co/5ndm8bb

I'm fine with cutting but can't gain muscle. Doesn't feel like these routines work that way? I stall, deload, sleep more etc but still need to eat more to progress the weight

It's not the routine, it's your diet. How much protein are you consuming?

[FDRD1]

It's not the routine, it's your diet. How much protein are you consuming?

170-180 g protein
80g fat

[LactoseTolerant]

Just curious, how much is that?

How much do you squat/bench/DL?

[Gaston40]

The problem is you're gaining too much fat....much faster than you're gaining muscle. Muscle is very very slow to build.

3 lbs a month of muscle is pretty much all you can gain a month with everything being perfect.

In theory you gained 6 lbs of overall muscle and 20 lbs of weight in 2.5 months.

That's A LOT of fat

[TAWS6]

How much do you squat/bench/DL?

Funny one of my buddies who's always been on a bro gram benches 225 and squats 245 lol. Typical bro imbalances.

[FDRD1]

How much do you squat/bench/DL?

Squat 240, bench 92lbs due to impingement at 180lbs, dl I never really done.

[LactoseTolerant]

Squat 240, bench 92lbs due to impingement at 180lbs, dl I never really done.

And your 2 friends can't match this, correct?

[FDRD1]

And your 2 friends can't match this, correct?

They bench more. But correct, they cannot surpass these numbers as it stands. I'm includng ohp, row etc

[rsid97]

Squat 240, bench 92lbs due to impingement at 180lbs, dl I never really done.

Hold up, hold up,hold up. So you ran SL 5x5 without deadlifts and a completely garbage diet,while adding in extra stuff yet you're trying to conclude that the difference in results between two genetically different individuals is purely do to programming?

First ones: 175 lbs
Second: around 155 lbs
Third: 181 lbs
.

Okay you know what, forget this entire discussion. If this is how your diet control is then it doesn't matter what sort of routine you're running. You're not building muscle because your diet is a mess, not because you're training is a mess (although that may also be possible if you're changing programs and not running things as instructed).

If you had gained an absolute max of 4lbs a month, while running the program as instructed then this would have been a completely different story.

[Gaston40]

No matter what program you do, if you're gonna gain 26 lbs in 2 and a half months you're not gonna look like you lift....you'll look fat.

You need to follow the program correctly and you need to get your nutrition in check.

[etet1919]

Squat 240, bench 92lbs due to impingement at 180lbs, dl I never really done.

I'm sorry your shoulder impingement set you back so much. It's very frustrating to say the least. Can I ask why you've never tried deadlifting?

[LactoseTolerant]

They bench more. But correct, they cannot surpass these numbers as it stands. I'm includng ohp, row etc

I thought so. The friend who took the selfie in the gym looks like a bench bro. He tries to hide his legs but it's apparent he doesn't give much effort to his lower body. That's a danger with bro splits for novices.

I can't really tell with the other friend.