VBBS: Deadlift volume

[ShellRox]

I've been on VBBS full body for total 7 months and I've switched to upper/lower split about a month ago (in total I've worked out for 1.5 years).

I usually love high volume, I've been doing it since I've started working out and I'm used to it. But lately I'm having problems with deadlifts.

In both of the VBBS programs, I have to do 2 sets of 12 reps, which is confusing since I'm not sure of the optimal way to split this amount.

So for example, today I quickly warmed up with 88lbs (40kg) and 135 lbs (60kg), then did 220 lbs (100kg) for 6 reps and 242 lbs (110 kg) for 4 reps. I know I'm quite weak, but as the reps increase, I feel like my form is starting to break down from getting tired.

I also did form check video, and usually people recommended me to decrease amounts of reps and increase amounts of sets.

In nutshell, I know that Viking certainly knows much more than I do, but can I decrease amount of reps? (instead of 12, maybe 10, so 5x2). If not, should i just split the set in half? (6x2)

Thank you!

[Gaston40]

Why dont you just lower the weight down so you can get 2x12?

[Ghawk21]

I've been on VBBS full body for total 7 months and I've switched to upper/lower split about a month ago (in total I've worked out for 1.5 years).

I usually love high volume, I've been doing it since I've started working out and I'm used to it. But lately I'm having problems with deadlifts.

In both of the VBBS programs, I have to do 2 sets of 12 reps, which is confusing since I'm not sure of the optimal way to split this amount.

So for example, today I quickly warmed up with 88lbs (40kg) and 135 lbs (60kg), then did 220 lbs (100kg) for 6 reps and 242 lbs (110 kg) for 4 reps. I know I'm quite weak, but as the reps increase, I feel like my form is starting to break down from getting tired.

I also did form check video, and usually people recommended me to decrease amounts of reps and increase amounts of sets.

In nutshell, I know that Viking certainly knows much more than I do, but can I decrease amount of reps? (instead of 12, maybe 10, so 5x2). If not, should i just split the set in half? (6x2)

Thank you!

I may be wrong, but aren't you supposed to use the same weight for each set working towards the rep goal? So in your case it would be 220x6 and 220x6 then you add weight? I don't think its meant to be ramped up.

Edit: The 2x 6 was just an example. Could also be 8+4 or 7+5. The idea is as long as you hit the rep goal within the prescribed number of sets, you increase the weight the following week.

[ShellRox]

Why dont you just lower the weight down so you can get 2x12?

Because that's how the program progression is defined. Last week I did 198 lbs (90kg) for first set and 220 lbs (100kg) for the second set which means that I should increase the weight this week (so I increased both of them by 22 lbs, or 10kg). Also, according to program, if I didn't complete the sufficient amount of repetitions, I should stay on the same weight until I progress.

[ShellRox]

I may be wrong, but aren't you supposed to use the same weight for each set working towards the rep goal? So in your case it would be 220x6 and 220x6 then you add weight? I don't think its meant to be ramped up.

Edit: The 2x 6 was just an example. Could also be 8+4 or 7+5. The idea is as long as you hit the rep goal within the prescribed number of sets, you increase the weight the following week.

To be honest, I don't know either. VBBS program has never mentioned any details specifically for deadlift progression, but there's an example of squat rep distribution:

"So if we take squats for instance, where we have 4 sets with a rep goal of 32. Set 1 you may get 10 reps, Set 2: 9 reps, Set 3: 7 reps and Set 4: 6 reps... and then add some weight the next time you're squatting. 5, 10 or even 20 pounds, depending on the lift and what you're comfortable with."

So logically the weight increases as reps decrease, so there would be a challenge. But specifically for deadlifts, I'm not sure, is it conventional thing to do?

[Ghawk21]

To be honest, I don't know either. VBBS program has never mentioned any details specifically for deadlift progression, but there's an example of squat rep distribution:

"So if we take squats for instance, where we have 4 sets with a rep goal of 32. Set 1 you may get 10 reps, Set 2: 9 reps, Set 3: 7 reps and Set 4: 6 reps... and then add some weight the next time you're squatting. 5, 10 or even 20 pounds, depending on the lift and what you're comfortable with."

So logically the weight increases as reps decrease, so there would be a challenge. But specifically for deadlifts, I'm not sure, is it conventional thing to do?

Personally I would keep the weight the same across sets. Would make progression more simple and I think eliminate your problem. Especially with the 4 set exercises it would be tough to keep adding weight to each set and I think you would stall out faster than just using the same weight across all 4.

[Gaston40]

Because that's how the program progression is defined. Last week I did 198 lbs (90kg) for first set and 220 lbs (100kg) for the second set which means that I should increase the weight this week (so I increased both of them by 22 lbs, or 10kg). Also, according to program, if I didn't complete the sufficient amount of repetitions, I should stay on the same weight until I progress.

Make smaller jumps? 22lbs seems like a big increase. Maybe 5 or 10 lbs jumps...2.5kg and 5kg?

If your form is breaking down, does that also not constitute as not getting the reps?

[ShellRox]

Personally I would keep the weight the same across sets. Would make progression more simple and I think eliminate your problem. Especially with the 4 set exercises it would be tough to keep adding weight to each set and I think you would stall out faster than just using the same weight across all 4.

Yeah, i'll definitely try using same weight for deadlifts, for squats I usually make a slight increase in the last set (but for most of the sets I use the same weight).

[ShellRox]

Make smaller jumps? 22lbs seems like a big increase. Maybe 5 or 10 lbs jumps...2.5kg and 5kg?

If your form is breaking down, does that also not constitute as not getting the reps?

Yes correct, I'll try doing same weight for both of the reps (225 lbs) as mentioned above, then I'll make slight progressions (2.5kg, 5kg) every week.

[gcoulson]

It was my understanding that the weight stayed the same for all sets and reps. You only up the weight if you make the required number of reps in the defined number of sets. Ie. You up the weight between workouts, not within a workout.

[FaIIen]

So logically the weight increases as reps decrease, so there would be a challenge.

Wtf, no. Reps decrease because you're fatigued and can't perform more.

[ShellRox]

It was my understanding that the weight stayed the same for all sets and reps. You only up the weight if you make the required number of reps in the defined number of sets. Ie. You up the weight between workouts, not within a workout.

Wtf, no. Reps decrease because you're fatigued and can't perform more.

Sorry if I was being implicit, I'll give the example for my squat progression, I have to do 4 sets of total 32 reps:

Week 1:

135 lbs (60kg) 12 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
187 lbs (85kg) 4 reps

Week 2:

135 lbs (60kg) 12 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
200 lbs (90kg) 4 reps (5kg or 11 lbs increase)

Isn't this normal? I've been doing such rep progression since I've started working out, and now I think I've been doing it wrong.

P.S

I know my squat weights are quite low.

[FaIIen]

Sorry if I was being implicit, I'll give the example for my squat progression, I have to do 4 sets of total 32 reps:

Week 1:

135 lbs (60kg) 12 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
187 lbs (85kg) 4 reps

Week 2:

135 lbs (60kg) 12 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
155 lbs (70kg) 8 reps
200 lbs (90kg) 4 reps (5kg or 11 lbs increase)

Isn't this normal? I've been doing such rep progression since I've started working out, and now I think I've been doing it wrong.

P.S

I know my squat weights are quite low.

The Rep Goal Progression

These programs are based on a very simplistic progression system. You have a set rep goal you need to reach within the allowed number of sets, before you can add weight to the lift. So if we take squats for instance, where we have 4 sets with a rep goal of 32. Set 1 you may get 10 reps, Set 2: 9 reps, Set 3: 7 reps and Set 4: 6 reps... and then add some weight the next time you're squatting. 5, 10 or even 20 pounds, depending on the lift and what you're comfortable with. If you're failling to reach the rep goal, you simply stay with the same weight until you hit it. This kind of progression makes it far more self regulated than the average novice routine, which means you can stick with it for longer.


No, you're not doing it right. Choose a weight, use it for 4 sets. If you get 32 reps, increase the weight on the next session. If not, keep at it until you can do 32 reps in 4 sets. You'll probably want to start with a weight you can do for about 10 reps on the first set. Don't go to failure, keep 1-2 reps in the tank.

[ShellRox]

The Rep Goal Progression

These programs are based on a very simplistic progression system. You have a set rep goal you need to reach within the allowed number of sets, before you can add weight to the lift. So if we take squats for instance, where we have 4 sets with a rep goal of 32. Set 1 you may get 10 reps, Set 2: 9 reps, Set 3: 7 reps and Set 4: 6 reps... and then add some weight the next time you're squatting. 5, 10 or even 20 pounds, depending on the lift and what you're comfortable with. If you're failling to reach the rep goal, you simply stay with the same weight until you hit it. This kind of progression makes it far more self regulated than the average novice routine, which means you can stick with it for longer.


No, you're not doing it right. Choose a weight, use it for 4 sets. If you get 32 reps, increase the weight on the next session. If not, keep at it until you can do 32 reps in 4 sets. You'll probably want to start with a weight you can do for about 10 reps on the first set. Don't go to failure, keep 1-2 reps in the tank.

Wow, I never knew that... Perhaps that's one of the reasons for why I stopped progressing that much. I guess I'll add extra warmup sets with lighter weight. Thank you!

[Gaston40]

Wow, I never knew that... Perhaps that's one of the reasons for why I stopped progressing that much. I guess I'll add extra warmup sets with lighter weight. Thank you!

Why are you gonna add extra warm up sets? That seems counter productive

[ShellRox]

Why are you gonna add extra warm up sets? That seems counter productive

In order to have sufficient mobility, increase blood flow and activate CNS. For deadlifts, I would do 225 lbs (100kg) for total 12 reps, but before that I would warm up with 135 lbs (60kg) so I don't damage myself.

VBBS, page 2:

Do we do warm up sets before the major compounds?

Only if you want to avoid injuries...

[Gaston40]

In order to have sufficient mobility, increase blood flow and activate CNS. For deadlifts, I would do 225 lbs (100kg) for total 12 reps, but before that I would warm up with 135 lbs (60kg) so I don't damage myself.

VBBS, page 2:

I know why we do warm ups...i just asking why you will do more sets of warm ups? Seems like viking already has warm ups defined. Just asking

[ShellRox]

I know why we do warm ups...i just asking why you will do more sets of warm ups? Seems like viking already has warm ups defined. Just asking

I'm sorry, I'm slightly confused. I can't find any warmup sets on VBBS thread, by extra sets I meant 1-2 sets of moderate warmup, nothing intense.