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  1. #1
    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    First Year Track Thrower

    This year I decided to throw for my High School track team because we don't have any true throwers (our throwers are the kids who wanted to do track, but were too slow to run) and I thought I may do good. I've been powerlifting for a year and a half now, while my strength isn't outstanding, I am stronger than all of our current throwers. The strength is there, but I am going into it blind and need some advice for someone just starting throwing. Thanks!!
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    Do you have a "throws" coach at the school (prefer USATF Level 1 or better throws coach)? There is a lot of technique to learn for throws. Check around in your state and see if anyone offers winter throws training (check for local track clubs on the USATF web site). As for training, now's the time to lift heavy. Sign up for your schools winter S&C program or at least lift with the football team. Around February you'll transition to more isolateral work and more explosive work. If you have the coaching available mid-winter lifting has a lot of Olympic lifting elements along with working on your form. If you don't have a coach to teach Olympic lifts then various medicine ball work can substitute for most of the Olympic work. Looking for a book get the Complete Book of Throws - it's pretty good but use a video camera to help work on technique. Oh yeah and pick up some throwing shoes; not the most expensive as they spin too easily and you have to learn to control them, instead choose Nike SD2 or SD4, Adidas ThrowStar, or the Ascis that around $50.
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sowilson View Post
    Do you have a "throws" coach at the school (prefer USATF Level 1 or better throws coach)? There is a lot of technique to learn for throws. Check around in your state and see if anyone offers winter throws training (check for local track clubs on the USATF web site). As for training, now's the time to lift heavy. Sign up for your schools winter S&C program or at least lift with the football team. Around February you'll transition to more isolateral work and more explosive work. If you have the coaching available mid-winter lifting has a lot of Olympic lifting elements along with working on your form. If you don't have a coach to teach Olympic lifts then various medicine ball work can substitute for most of the Olympic work. Looking for a book get the Complete Book of Throws - it's pretty good but use a video camera to help work on technique. Oh yeah and pick up some throwing shoes; not the most expensive as they spin too easily and you have to learn to control them, instead choose Nike SD2 or SD4, Adidas ThrowStar, or the Ascis that around $50.
    Thanks for the response, but my brother is close friends with one of the coaches over the throwing in our track program and he said she would be more than willing to help. As for the strength part, it is routine for me to go heavy and work on explosiveness work for bench squat and deads, but not for much else. Do you think I should start throwing in oly lifting and work specifically for my explosiveness? Although self taught, my oly lifting form is definitely good enough to get by with, but coaching specifically for that would be a bit pricey. Also, right now I am around 6'3 300 pounds, but am still able to move well for size and am not obese. Should I cut down to 275 or even 250, or stay at my weight?
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    Dont go explosive with deads and bench presses, its not a substitute

    If you are 300 pounds and still in high school you need to get your eating under control - you will most likley lean out and still gain muscle, which will greatly help your explosiveness..
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    One doesn't "throw in" Olympic lifts. If you want to be a better thrower you train explosiveness specifically for throws. Medicine ball throws are actually quite good as the throws require rotational movement and there are some med ball rotational throws good for throwers. For example the following are a couple of good ones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioeevGNIa5k . You can start with those but there are a few others you need to add. You need to have someone coach you in the throws as there are drills you do during the strength phase pre-season that you should be doing now. My son use to train with http://mnthrowcoach.org/index.html while in HS .He's throwing in college and has a very good throws coach. Here's a great video of Shotput progression using the glide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znr3YooeSI. As for your weight it doesn't matter. What matters is how well you move through the circle (shot, discus, hammer, weight). Depending on how strong you are in the upper body you may be able to get close to 50' with horrible technique and all arm. You will never progress though until you can bring your lower body into it. You throw with your legs not with your arm - same as pitching a baseball or hitting home runs. To bring the lower body into your throws and sequence things you need to learn technique and to properly train. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you seek out an offseason throwing program (i.e. like mnthrowcoach.org if you live in Minnesota). I also HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you pick up the book I listed - it's a decent place to start. No offense but almost all HS throws coaches are clueless in coaching the throws, even if they threw in college.
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    Work with your throwing coach first and foremost. You want to be "a thrower who lifts, not a lifter who throws" as Dan John likes to say.
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    Work with your throwing coach first and foremost. You want to be "a thrower who lifts, not a lifter who throws" as Dan John likes to say.
    You wouldn't happen to know a solid lifting program for throwing would you? My track team isn't school funded and we don't have weights or a strength coach, I have the weights but need a program. I would write one but that would probably crash and burn pretty fast.
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    There's a few. You'll also need to do skill work, but a basic workout is https://www.stack.com/a/thrower-workout . Dan John has some workouts on his site that are worth checking. My son follows a throws program based on Westside developed by his coach and incorporates some Triphasic training components in it. It's also modified to handle football training too (son is a two sport college athlete).
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sowilson View Post
    There's a few. You'll also need to do skill work, but a basic workout is . Dan John has some workouts on his site that are worth checking. My son follows a throws program based on Westside developed by his coach and incorporates some Triphasic training components in it. It's also modified to handle football training too (son is a two sport college athlete).
    In regards to the basic workouts you linked, do you think the pre season workouts are good enough to follow or should I try and find something by Dan John on his website? If the linked workouts are good enough I will follow them. Also, my track team conditioning starts soon and I was going to throw freshman year since my brother was a runner, but our conditioning only applies to runners i.e. all cardio and sprinting work and I am no runner, at least on their level, so needless to say last time I went it consisted of everyone laughing at me for being slow and not able to run as much. Do you think it's necessary for me to go since they do not do anything for the throwers?
    Last edited by HSPowerlifter; 11-26-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    When does your season start? You're in HS so I doubt you have an indoor season so I would lift heavy for now (through December, maybe February) and then transition over to power work 6-8 weeks before the season starts. So, I would follow the off-season Stack program through at least the end of the year and then start the preseason, but it all depends on your meet schedule. In addition you'll want to do some running (sprint training) - nothing long but take off, shorter shuttle runs, and such are good. You also need to work on basic technique and incorporate some of the medball work (I linked some, you'll need to find others). If you have to run on a hard indoor surface don't run in your trainers, use well fitting running shoes. It's very easy for large throwers to develop overuse problems with their feet (especially their right foot). The combination of sprint work, shot put skill work (and throws), and heavy lifting can raise havoc on your sesamoid bones in your foot. You can also look at adding some plyometric exercises - standing long jump on grass or into a long jump pit is good for throws.
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sowilson View Post
    When does your season start? You're in HS so I doubt you have an indoor season so I would lift heavy for now (through December, maybe February) and then transition over to power work 6-8 weeks before the season starts. So, I would follow the off-season Stack program through at least the end of the year and then start the preseason, but it all depends on your meet schedule. In addition you'll want to do some running (sprint training) - nothing long but take off, shorter shuttle runs, and such are good. You also need to work on basic technique and incorporate some of the medball work (I linked some, you'll need to find others). If you have to run on a hard indoor surface don't run in your trainers, use well fitting running shoes. It's very easy for large throwers to develop overuse problems with their feet (especially their right foot). The combination of sprint work, shot put skill work (and throws), and heavy lifting can raise havoc on your sesamoid bones in your foot. You can also look at adding some plyometric exercises - standing long jump on grass or into a long jump pit is good for throws.
    Thanks for all the help, I'm fairly certain season begins in either late Feb. or March. I think I am going to run the off season program until the new year and once the new year kicks in start running the pre season. I am also going to incorporate as much throwing specific exercises and form work as I can.
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    Good luck and enjoy the throws. Really try to get some good coaching. If you take it serious there are good throwers camps during the summer. Your top state college will probably have a decent throws camp during the summer. My son's season started today. They'll have indoor meets starting in December so he'll throw shot put and weight and then transition to the outdoor season in late March where he'll throw shot put, discus, and hammer. The throwers on my son's college team gear themselves to the outdoor season so they'll still lift very heavy up to the first or second indoor meet and then switch to something similar to the pre-season program you're considering up until the start of the outdoor season.
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    Most definitely, but you have to watch your caloric intake to avoid compromising your strength. Change your diet to maintain your energy and muscle gain but losing weight will definitely help you with explosiveness.
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Update: Threw a shot for the first time the other day. It was 16lbs and got it 45 feet with pretty much no technique, essentially all arm and some lower body. Not the best throw, but I have a feeling I'm gonna like it.
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    Why are you throwing a 16lb shot in HS. Once you're 19 you throw that so college. In HS you throw 12lb. 45ft for a HS 12lb throw I can believe, 16lb not so much. It is fun though.
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sowilson View Post
    Why are you throwing a 16lb shot in HS. Once you're 19 you throw that so college. In HS you throw 12lb. 45ft for a HS 12lb throw I can believe, 16lb not so much. It is fun though.
    There was just a 16lb shot on hand at the time and I figured I'd give it a try. As for the 45 feet, unless I measured wrong, which I'm fairly certain I didn't, is what I threw it.
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    Registered User sowilson's Avatar
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    If you throw a 16lb shot 45 feet that will roughly equate to 52-55 feet with a 12lb shot which will put you in the state finals in most states in the US. So, yeah I'm having a hard time believing it. Was this an indoor (usually red plastic covering) shot or outdoor (steel or cast iron) shot? I can't imagine a HS having an indoor 16lb shot (they're expensive), outdoor shot maybe (for overload training).
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    Registered User HSPowerlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sowilson View Post
    If you throw a 16lb shot 45 feet that will roughly equate to 52-55 feet with a 12lb shot which will put you in the state finals in most states in the US. So, yeah I'm having a hard time believing it. Was this an indoor (usually red plastic covering) shot or outdoor (steel or cast iron) shot? I can't imagine a HS having an indoor 16lb shot (they're expensive), outdoor shot maybe (for overload training).
    It was an outdoor shot that I personally own, but I understand your skepticism if a 45ft. throw with a 16lb shot is out of the ordinary. Next time I am able to throw I will re-measure it and make sure I didn't measure wrong.
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