Trainers, how do you feel about this PT package?

[Manletbolic]

This isn't from me but from a local gym I was planning to apply. But after seeing this, my gut is already telling me they're selling customers such unrealistic promises and results I feel as a trainer this would be a let down for the client. And as a trainer I will get blamed for not delivering results.

What are your thoughts

1 Month
12 One on One Personal Training Sessions (3 sessions per week for 4 weeks)

- Nutrition Plan
- Supplement Plan

Typical Results:
- 8 lbs fat loss
- 3 lbs muscle gain

2 Month
16 One on One Personal Training Sessions (2 sessions per week for 8 weeks)

- Nutrition Plan
- Supplement Plan

Typical Results:
- 14 lbs fat loss
- 5 lbs muscle gain

3 Month
24 One on One Personal Training Sessions (2 times a week for 12 weeks)

- Nutrition Plan
- Supplement Plan

Typical Results:
- 20 lbs Fat Loss
- 8 lbs Muscle Gain

or

- 36 One on One Personal Training Sessions (3 times a week for 12 weeks)

- Nutrition Plan
- Supplement Plan

Typical Results:
- 30 lbs Fat Loss
- 10 lbs Muscle Gain

6 Month
48 One on One Personal Training Sessions (3 times a week for 24 weeks)

- 2 Nutrition Plans
- 2 Supplement Plans

Typical Results:
- 60 lbs Fat Loss
- 20 lbs Muscle Gain

or

72 One on One Personal Training Sessions (3 times a week for 24 weeks)

- 3 Nutrition Plans
- 2 Supplement Plans

Typical Results:
- 80 lbs Fat Loss
- 30 lbs Muscle Gain

[CommitmentRulz]

72 One on One Personal Training Sessions (3 times a week for 24 weeks)

- 3 Nutrition Plans
- 2 Supplement Plans

Typical Results:
- 80 lbs Fat Loss
- 30 lbs Muscle Gain

30 pounds of muscle gain in 6 months? Are they including the cost/purchase of "extra chemicals" that we can't talk about on this site in the price?

[Manletbolic]

30 pounds of muscle gain in 6 months? Are they including the cost/purchase of "extra chemicals" that we can't talk about on this site in the price?

Lol doubt it.

Exactly 30lbs of muscle in 6 months seems overboard right?

[KyleAaron]

Like most, they'll be confusing "muscle" with "lean mass." Lean mass is quite literally everything in your body except fat. If you drink 1lt of water then you have gained 1kg of lean mass. If you take a previously sedentary person and get them to do anything - weights, running, whatever - it's common for them to gain 2-4lb of lean mass in the first week or two. It's simply that their body finds the need for more stored energy in the form of glycogen, and each 1g of glycogen has 2-3g of water with it. That plus increased appetite from going from zero activity to some activity will add a pound or two.

The "lean mass" people add, even through years of training, is not all muscle.

They will caveat their results by "if you follow the nutrition plan." People are generally bad at following nutrition plans, and given a sufficiently ridiculous nutrition plan, nobody will follow it, then when they fail to get results you can blame them. "Yes but did you eat 4lb chicken and 2lb broc**** and drink 2 gallons of water today, hmmm? If you did that for six months you'd gain 30lbs of muscle!"

Apart from obese newbies, almost nobody can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time without pharmaceutical assistance. It's possible but it's extremely difficult requiring constant attention to food and adjusting as you go. Thus: "individual results may vary."

[Manletbolic]

Like most, they'll be confusing "muscle" with "lean mass." Lean mass is quite literally everything in your body except fat. If you drink 1lt of water then you have gained 1kg of lean mass. If you take a previously sedentary person and get them to do anything - weights, running, whatever - it's common for them to gain 2-4lb of lean mass in the first week or two. It's simply that their body finds the need for more stored energy in the form of glycogen, and each 1g of glycogen has 2-3g of water with it. That plus increased appetite from going from zero activity to some activity will add a pound or two.

The "lean mass" people add, even through years of training, is not all muscle.

They will caveat their results by "if you follow the nutrition plan." People are generally bad at following nutrition plans, and given a sufficiently ridiculous nutrition plan, nobody will follow it, then when they fail to get results you can blame them. "Yes but did you eat 4lb chicken and 2lb broc**** and drink 2 gallons of water today, hmmm? If you did that for six months you'd gain 30lbs of muscle!"

Apart from obese newbies, almost nobody can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time without pharmaceutical assistance. It's possible but it's extremely difficult requiring constant attention to food and adjusting as you go. Thus: "individual results may vary."

yea I'm not sure why they would try and advertise this

[KyleAaron]

Because it sells. People prefer the lie they want to hear to the truth they don't.

"Come to our gym, lift really heavy weights and eat good food for about ten years and you'll have a good physique," is true but not popular. "Sixpack abs in 30 days!" is bullsht but popular.

That's why I work as a trainer, not a marketer.

[Sergexzx]

They're desperate for sales.

[getbigordie18]

Like most, they'll be confusing "muscle" with "lean mass." Lean mass is quite literally everything in your body except fat. If you drink 1lt of water then you have gained 1kg of lean mass. If you take a previously sedentary person and get them to do anything - weights, running, whatever - it's common for them to gain 2-4lb of lean mass in the first week or two. It's simply that their body finds the need for more stored energy in the form of glycogen, and each 1g of glycogen has 2-3g of water with it. That plus increased appetite from going from zero activity to some activity will add a pound or two.

The "lean mass" people add, even through years of training, is not all muscle.

They will caveat their results by "if you follow the nutrition plan." People are generally bad at following nutrition plans, and given a sufficiently ridiculous nutrition plan, nobody will follow it, then when they fail to get results you can blame them. "Yes but did you eat 4lb chicken and 2lb broc**** and drink 2 gallons of water today, hmmm? If you did that for six months you'd gain 30lbs of muscle!"

Apart from obese newbies, almost nobody can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time without pharmaceutical assistance. It's possible but it's extremely difficult requiring constant attention to food and adjusting as you go. Thus: "individual results may vary."

i got as heavy as 230 and felt horrible. Most of the time people who market like this are being unreasonable, however it depends on how new the client is to lifting. if they are underweight you could gain maybe at most 50 pounds or 60 in one year. My first year of lifting i was 130 pounds by the end of the year I was 175 and those are "typical gains for an underweight distance runner" however not all of this was muscle but most of it was like 80% of it if I were to estimate I would say I gained 35-40 pounds of muscle realistically in 1 year. THESE results are not typical for someone who is 170-200 pounds.

[KyleAaron]

You did not gain 35-40lbs of muscle. It would be lean mass, and it's more likely to be half of your gains, not 80% of them.

Whenever you gain weight, some proportion will be lean mass, and some fat. Even if you just sit on the couch drinking beer for a year and gain 100lbs, 25lbs of it will be lean mass - just to hold the rest of the gelatinous jiggle together. And you'll be stronger, just as you'd be stronger if you strapped 100lbs of weight plates to your body and walked around with them for a year.

The lean mass will be a larger or smaller fraction of your size gain based on,

• how male you are - males gain lean mass more quickly and easily than women
• how young you are - from 12 to 18 the typical male will put on 40lbs of lean mass even if all he does is masturbate five times a day, as many do, and females 20lbs unless they starve themselves, as many do. Then from 18 to 22 is a second adolescence where people fill out into their frames, though the gains here are smaller
• how quickly you gain weight; the quicker the gain, the higher the proportion of fat
• how protein and nutrient-rich your diet is; if your calories are all coming from doughnuts, there's only so much your body can do
• whether you lift; lifting encourages the body to put on lean mass, while sitting around encourages it to put on fat
• your individual genetics, which I mention last for a reason

Of the factors under your control, there's food quality, speed of weight gain, and lifting. Many of the popular training programmes such as Starting Strength encourage rapid weight gain, since their original target demographic was adolescent males - see the first two points above - and since they want tangible progress to keep you interested in the programme. Generally I would encourage a more moderate approach.

[getbigordie18]

You did not gain 35-40lbs of muscle. It would be lean mass, and it's more likely to be half of your gains, not 80% of them.

Whenever you gain weight, some proportion will be lean mass, and some fat. Even if you just sit on the couch drinking beer for a year and gain 100lbs, 25lbs of it will be lean mass - just to hold the rest of the gelatinous jiggle together. And you'll be stronger, just as you'd be stronger if you strapped 100lbs of weight plates to your body and walked around with them for a year.

The lean mass will be a larger or smaller fraction of your size gain based on,

• how male you are - males gain lean mass more quickly and easily than women
• how young you are - from 12 to 18 the typical male will put on 40lbs of lean mass even if all he does is masturbate five times a day, as many do, and females 20lbs unless they starve themselves, as many do. Then from 18 to 22 is a second adolescence where people fill out into their frames, though the gains here are smaller
• how quickly you gain weight; the quicker the gain, the higher the proportion of fat
• how protein and nutrient-rich your diet is; if your calories are all coming from doughnuts, there's only so much your body can do
• whether you lift; lifting encourages the body to put on lean mass, while sitting around encourages it to put on fat
• your individual genetics, which I mention last for a reason

Of the factors under your control, there's food quality, speed of weight gain, and lifting. Many of the popular training programmes such as Starting Strength encourage rapid weight gain, since their original target demographic was adolescent males - see the first two points above - and since they want tangible progress to keep you interested in the programme. Generally I would encourage a more moderate approach.

Sorry yes, i used the wrong term. Great write up though!!There is a reason why you are a great moderator!!! The internet is an amazing way to connect us all over the world!!!

[ironwill2008]

30lbs of muscle in 6 months

This isn't from me but from a local gym I was planning to apply. But after seeing this, my gut is already telling me they're selling customers such unrealistic promises and results I feel as a trainer this would be a let down for the client. And as a trainer I will get blamed for not delivering results.

What are your thoughts

I don't normally post in Kyle's forum, but I couldn't pass this up because it's so preposterous. The ganefs offering this "plan" need to be punched in their ****ing face.


It's a giant load of what comes out of the South end of a North-facing bull. Even with enough Flintstonez Vitaminz to float a battleship around, it ain't gonna happen.




Reality, Lyle McDonald style: https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle...ain-math.html/

[getbigordie18]

I don't normally post in Kyle's forum, but I couldn't pass this up because it's so preposterous. The ganefs offering this "plan" need to be punched in their ****ing face.


It's a giant load of what comes out of the South end of a North-facing bull. Even with enough Flintstonez Vitaminz to float a battleship around, it ain't gonna happen.




Reality, Lyle McDonald style: https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle...ain-math.html/

I recommend that trainers don't use specific numbers or they should not even bother and instead what they should do is to maket by interacting with people and by word of mouth that should be enough to get and maintain clients.

[Manletbolic]

You did not gain 35-40lbs of muscle. It would be lean mass, and it's more likely to be half of your gains, not 80% of them.

Whenever you gain weight, some proportion will be lean mass, and some fat. Even if you just sit on the couch drinking beer for a year and gain 100lbs, 25lbs of it will be lean mass - just to hold the rest of the gelatinous jiggle together. And you'll be stronger, just as you'd be stronger if you strapped 100lbs of weight plates to your body and walked around with them for a year.

The lean mass will be a larger or smaller fraction of your size gain based on,

• how male you are - males gain lean mass more quickly and easily than women
• how young you are - from 12 to 18 the typical male will put on 40lbs of lean mass even if all he does is masturbate five times a day, as many do, and females 20lbs unless they starve themselves, as many do. Then from 18 to 22 is a second adolescence where people fill out into their frames, though the gains here are smaller
• how quickly you gain weight; the quicker the gain, the higher the proportion of fat
• how protein and nutrient-rich your diet is; if your calories are all coming from doughnuts, there's only so much your body can do
• whether you lift; lifting encourages the body to put on lean mass, while sitting around encourages it to put on fat
• your individual genetics, which I mention last for a reason

Of the factors under your control, there's food quality, speed of weight gain, and lifting. Many of the popular training programmes such as Starting Strength encourage rapid weight gain, since their original target demographic was adolescent males - see the first two points above - and since they want tangible progress to keep you interested in the programme. Generally I would encourage a more moderate approach.

Kyle (or anyone here)

if it had to come down to working for a reputable chain gym that genuinely looks after their trainers but also the needs of the client, do you have any suggestions? Or are they all the same selling/marketing oriented.

I always felt, if work place was heavily developed on growing a team and developing good trainers, and hiring trainers legitimately looking to help people, numbers would follow.

[KyleAaron]

The nature of chain gyms is that they won't look after their trainers or their clients. You become a successful chain by having systems that even a dumb 15yo can handle, like McDs. These systems are designed to maximise income while minimising expenditure. This means having the lowest quality customers will put up with. This means a high churn of staff and members.

In any gym there may be individual managers or trainers who are focused on what's best for staff or members and clients. But you can't depend on it, it's just luck, and good staff in a bad environment tend to get fired or quit. While they're around for a few months, learn as much as you can from them. But they probably won't be there in two years.

Obviously, the chain gym managers will say differently when they're interviewing you. Nobody says "our systems are designed to sign members up and then discourage them from coming while making it hard for them to stop paying, and we spend nothing on training our staff," etc.

You are correct that if you train staff well then members will come, and bring their money with them. But this is not the approach at chain gyms, only at some training gyms, places like Alwyn Cosgrove's, for example, and a few Crossfits. Not large commercial chains. Fitness First is no more interested than creating great trainers than McDs is interested in creating great chefs.

You don't go to a chain gym to learn from managers and experienced trainers, though if you can it's a bonus. You go to a chain gym to learn from the members. Every day you speak to one new person, and you pick a movement and every day teach it to one new person. Throw in the introductory appointments new members do, and after two years you have spoken to and/or taught a movement to 500-1,000 people. After two years you will have learned something about the personal, and something about the trainer part of your job.

And that's the great advantage of a large commercial or community gym: giving you exposure to literally thousands of different people and bodies. This lets you develop your business (anyone can buy a bunch of gear, but where do your clients come from? whereas at a big gym, everyone you meet is already interested in fitness) and develop your personal and trainer skills. All the other sht like poor pay and no training and the shtty music and endless dusting of treadmills and picking up weight plates and yet another New Year discount marketing frenzy and meetings and KPI reports you just put up with so you can work with those members.

[Trainer100]

For the most part, studios that offer 'nutrition plans' often do so without a Registered Dietician with a Sports Nutrition certification and Bachelor's Degree in nutrition on site. That's usually a big red flag. Secondly, any studio that offers a 'supplement plan' is probably trying to upsell clients for products they don't need or staffed by undereducated/undertrained management.

The values they present are seemingly arbirtrarily created and unrealistic for the typical client, especially considering typical attrittion rates being high and behavioral adherence rates being low.

[Manletbolic]

The nature of chain gyms is that they won't look after their trainers or their clients. You become a successful chain by having systems that even a dumb 15yo can handle, like McDs. These systems are designed to maximise income while minimising expenditure. This means having the lowest quality customers will put up with. This means a high churn of staff and members.

In any gym there may be individual managers or trainers who are focused on what's best for staff or members and clients. But you can't depend on it, it's just luck, and good staff in a bad environment tend to get fired or quit. While they're around for a few months, learn as much as you can from them. But they probably won't be there in two years.

Obviously, the chain gym managers will say differently when they're interviewing you. Nobody says "our systems are designed to sign members up and then discourage them from coming while making it hard for them to stop paying, and we spend nothing on training our staff," etc.

You are correct that if you train staff well then members will come, and bring their money with them. But this is not the approach at chain gyms, only at some training gyms, places like Alwyn Cosgrove's, for example, and a few Crossfits. Not large commercial chains. Fitness First is no more interested than creating great trainers than McDs is interested in creating great chefs.

You don't go to a chain gym to learn from managers and experienced trainers, though if you can it's a bonus. You go to a chain gym to learn from the members. Every day you speak to one new person, and you pick a movement and every day teach it to one new person. Throw in the introductory appointments new members do, and after two years you have spoken to and/or taught a movement to 500-1,000 people. After two years you will have learned something about the personal, and something about the trainer part of your job.

And that's the great advantage of a large commercial or community gym: giving you exposure to literally thousands of different people and bodies. This lets you develop your business (anyone can buy a bunch of gear, but where do your clients come from? whereas at a big gym, everyone you meet is already interested in fitness) and develop your personal and trainer skills. All the other sht like poor pay and no training and the shtty music and endless dusting of treadmills and picking up weight plates and yet another New Year discount marketing frenzy and meetings and KPI reports you just put up with so you can work with those members.

Awesome post!

So much truth too this. Thanks for this Kyle!

[fitalexv]

This isn't from me but from a local gym I was planning to apply. But after seeing this, my gut is already telling me they're selling customers such unrealistic promises and results I feel as a trainer this would be a let down for the client. And as a trainer I will get blamed for not delivering results.

What are your thoughts

I wouldn't put "typical results" in any descriptions of my plans as not everyone is the same.

If you have someone sign up for the first one, for example, and only lose 2 pounds, the likelihood that they will resign is lower than if you hadn't set an exact weight loss attribution to it. Depending on their adherence to nutrition and other factors, they will then feel defeated and want to stop.

[EveryBodyspt]

not bad

[Strengthnorge]

This isn't from me but from a local gym I was planning to apply. But after seeing this, my gut is already telling me they're selling customers such unrealistic promises and results I feel as a trainer this would be a let down for the client. And as a trainer I will get blamed for not delivering results.

What are your thoughts

Good call man. Back on off.

The gym is desperate for sales, those goals are crazy unrealistic.

A couple people have mentioned never advertise numbers. I fully agree.

Most client's don't really give a ****. They want to look, move and feel better.

If you can lock down the big reason WHY someone wants to hit their goal you will be able to hold onto clients for years.

Promising numbers is going to do just what you thought: Make you the disappointment.

[rawpersonaltrai]

Putting figures how much you’ll gain and lose is a bit risky from the gym owner’s point of view. You can’t force your clients towards consuming chemicals more than permissible limits, it will be bad for them in the long run. Secondly, fitness is not a programmed thing, results may vary even full care is taken for diets and workouts so for the best interest of clients it’s safe to avoid declaring figures just for the sake of getting more clients.