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  1. #1
    Registered User cojones539's Avatar
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    The California bar shooting last night...

    I know there are a lot of pro gun people on here (mfc crew), but ask yourselves - do you honestly think guns are still more beneficial to society than detrimental at this point?

    Pretty much every event that has involved a shooting is proving how senseless it is to allow these weapons to still be accepted in society.

    This event that happened in California last night is a shining star example of what I'm talking about.

    The majority of the time after a shooting has occurred, gun proponents come out and say "oh well if only there was a good guy there to stop the bad guy none of this would have happened!"

    Well, there were SIX off-duty officers at the bar when the shooting happened and an on-duty officer that entered the bar to try and stop the shooting minutes after it started.... who ended up being shot and killed by the gunman. This is not Hollywood... this is real life. The good guy is not always going to win. In fact, the bad guy has the element of surprise (which is a massively underrated factor in these events). The good guy does not. So the odds are not even equal.. they're in the bad guys favor.

    And no, he could not have done this much killing with a knife or a pencil. When people get enraged to a certain point and their intentions become malicious they will use whatever means possible to inflict harm. Meaning if they have a firearm the incidence of death suddenly becomes a lot higher.

    It's not my place to say you should or shouldn't carry a gun, that is a decision the individual has to make, it's just tragedies like this are a real shame. Like they say though "live by the sword, die by the sword". So if you're comfortable with gun ownership, so be it.. just don't start whinging when there are shootings like these and the one at the synagogue last week. Who knows, one day it might happen to someone you know / love.


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    Chocolate Chad sword_'s Avatar
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    Hey guys let's enact more laws to restrict legal gun ownership guys!



    Oh wait...

    The guy was also a Marine and Liberals always say that only cops and military should own guns and he was a former Marine.

    Cali is the litmus test for the rest of the US for these sort of laws yet they still have this problem. The guy had run ins with the law and mental health issues and no one did anything about it but hey guns are the problem guys!
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  3. #3
    Snap necks, cash checks Sarevoke75's Avatar
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    Shootings will happen regardless if you take away gun ownership.

    We don't need a ban, just make it harder for the non-trained and the uneducated in gun safety to buy them.
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    Ban guns
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    Ban bars
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    Why do mass shootings happen so frequently in the USA?

    Especially compared to other first world countries?
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    Do you think alcohol is more detrimental than beneficial?

    How about cigarettes?

    How about sports cars?

    How about soda?

    How about video games?

    How about dating apps?

    How about the misc?

    How about *insert countless other things here*




    Difference being that none of the things listed above are ever used for self-defense or to kill animals for food( and sports cars are the only ones that could be used for sport other than guns).
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    Registered User cojones539's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sword_ View Post
    Hey guys let's enact more laws to restrict legal gun ownership guys!



    Oh wait...

    The guy was also a Marine and Liberals always say that only cops and military should own guns and he was a former Marine.

    Cali is the litmus test for the rest of the US for these sort of laws yet they still have this problem. The guy had run ins with the law and mental health issues and no one did anything about it but hey guns are the problem guys!
    Yeah and the current gun laws aren't doing ****. There are much more effective measures that could be put into place. We're not the only country with people that have mental health issues, we are the only country however that sees mass shootings on a weekly basis. So yes, guns are the problem.
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    Registered User EsB818's Avatar
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    Well what’s your solution? Gun confiscation? Apparently the gun he owned was legal but he made an illegal modification to it to hold more rounds (criminals tend not to care about gun laws, SEE Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, etc). If those off duty cops weren’t there to at least engage him, there likely would have been many more dead. I agree there needs to be strict laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally disturbed people, but that isn’t accomplished by demonizing the millions of lawful gun owners across the country.
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  9. #9
    Just LMFAO @ all of it CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Dude had a history of mental health and police troubles. I'm hearing now that he was on powerful prescription drugs too.

    Based off that, that's 2-3 good reasons why he should have had his right to bear arms re-evaluated. He could also get them off the black market, but so can I, but I don't because I'm not mentally ill.

    So think about what the common denominator is here.
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    Registered User cojones539's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sarevoke75 View Post
    Shootings will happen regardless if you take away gun ownership.

    We don't need a ban, just make it harder for the non-trained and the uneducated in gun safety to buy them.
    How come they dont happen in australia or japan where there are no guns?
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    Its always the states with the strictest gun laws, coincidence not even once.
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    Originally Posted by cojones539 View Post
    I know there are a lot of pro gun people on here (mfc crew), but ask yourselves - do you honestly think guns are still more beneficial to society than detrimental at this point?

    Pretty much every event that has involved a shooting is proving how senseless it is to allow these weapons to still be accepted in society.

    This event that happened in California last night is a shining star example of what I'm talking about.

    The majority of the time after a shooting has occurred, gun proponents come out and say "oh well if only there was a good guy there to stop the bad guy none of this would have happened!"

    Well, there were SIX off-duty officers at the bar when the shooting happened and an on-duty officer that entered the bar to try and stop the shooting minutes after it started.... who ended up being shot and killed by the gunman. This is not Hollywood... this is real life. The good guy is not always going to win. In fact, the bad guy has the element of surprise (which is a massively underrated factor in these events). The good guy does not. So the odds are not even equal.. they're in the bad guys favor.

    And no, he could not have done this much killing with a knife or a pencil. When people get enraged to a certain point and their intentions become malicious they will use whatever means possible to inflict harm. Meaning if they have a firearm the incidence of death suddenly becomes a lot higher.

    It's not my place to say you should or shouldn't carry a gun, that is a decision the individual has to make, it's just tragedies like this are a real shame. Like they say though "live by the sword, die by the sword". So if you're comfortable with gun ownership, so be it.. just don't start whinging when there are shootings like these and the one at the synagogue last week. Who knows, one day it might happen to someone you know / love.


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    It is a violation of LEOSA laws for off duty officers to carry while under the influence of alcohol not to mention many departments ban their officers from carrying at bars,

    So no they were unarmed, under the influence and ambushed, so it doesnt really matter they were off duty cops

    Had one of them had a gun it probably would have been a different outcome

    Not to mention not every off duty cop carries, especially in thousand oaks which is one of the safest cities in the US
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  13. #13
    Registered User SirDerpington's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dirtymanjames View Post
    Why do mass shootings happen so frequently in the USA?

    Especially compared to other first world countries?
    Compared to the rest of the civilized world we don't have any higher death rate in regards to mass shootings. What I think is crazy is how comparatively few we have compared to the amount of guns we have.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by EsB818 View Post
    Well what’s your solution? Gun confiscation? Apparently the gun he owned was legal but he made an illegal modification to it to hold more rounds (criminals tend not to care about gun laws, SEE Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, etc). If those off duty cops weren’t there to at least engage him, there likely would have been many more dead. I agree there needs to be strict laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally disturbed people, but that isn’t accomplished by demonizing the millions of lawful gun owners across the country.
    I would argue for smart gun technology requirements. While this case may have involved a legally owned gun, 60% of guns used in crimes are illegally obtained. Smart gun technology would help that number tremendously
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    The one and only Dirtymanjames's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SirDerpington View Post
    Compared to the rest of the civilized world we don't have any higher death rate in regards to mass shootings. What I think is crazy is how comparatively few we have compared to the amount of guns we have.
    Don't think this is accurate at all.
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    Dude had a history of mental health and police troubles. I'm hearing now that he was on powerful prescription drugs too.

    Based off that, that's 2-3 good reasons why he should have had his right to bear arms re-evaluated. He could also get them off the black market, but so can I, but I don't because I'm not mentally ill.

    So think about what the common denominator is here.
    That's the one thing, regardless of race/religion/political beliefs, etc., that pretty much all mass shooters have in common
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    It is a violation of LEOSA laws for off duty officers to carry while under the influence of alcohol not to mention many departments ban their officers from carrying at bars,

    So no they were unarmed, under the influence and ambushed, so it doesnt really matter they were off duty cops

    Had one of them had a gun it probably would have been a different outcome

    Not to mention not every off duty cop carries, especially in thousand oaks which is one of the safest cities in the US
    Was unaware, thanks for the info. But there was still the armed on-duty officer that showed up on the scene that was unfortunately shot and killed
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    Originally Posted by Dirtymanjames View Post
    Don't think this is accurate at all.
    Yeah that's good, I'm not going to bother convincing you. Information in readily available out there.
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  19. #19
    Don't try. Do. omnip0tent's Avatar
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    Funny how people truly think we've reached some point of benevolence where the gov't is going to take care of everything and no one will have to ever fend for themselves. The very nature of having an armed and capable population is a Pillar of freedom, just because people are comfortable and think they no longer need the right to protect themselves DOES NOT MAKE IT A GOOD IDEA TO TAKE IT AWAY.


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    theres really no answer for this as long as there are guns things like this will happen

    im a gun owner and support constitutional carry as well but its true
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    a few hundred people die in public shooting, foock pigs kill more people per year ban pork.
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    Registered User SnowEh's Avatar
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    This is a case of The Seen vs The Unseen (a common problem in economics). You see stories of people dying via firearms but you don't see stories of people saved via firearms.
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    Originally Posted by Berts View Post
    Its always the states with the strictest gun laws, coincidence not even once.
    Actually,

    states with stricter gun regulation have fewer firearm related deaths. In states like Alabama,. Alaska and Louisiana, where guns are lightly regulated, the rate of deaths by firearms (per 100,000 people) is more than four times higher than in New York, Connecticut, Hawaii or Massachusetts, which have some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

    This data comes from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which tracks firearms deaths, and a project at the Boston University School of Public Health, which tracks dozens of different provisions of gun laws in the 50 states.

    Other research from the CDC has also found a clear connection between stricter state gun laws and a lower rate of firearms-related deaths.

    In 2013, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health found that states with more gun laws had fewer gun-related deaths. The impact was seen for overall deaths, as well as for specific categories such as homicides and suicides.

    Originally Posted by SnowEh View Post
    This is a case of The Seen vs The Unseen. You see stories of people dying via firearms but you don't see stories of people saved via firearms.
    because it doesn't happen nearly as often. I'd bet statistically for every 1 mass shooting stopped by a good guy, 10 are carried out successfully by a bad guy
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    Here in the UK in places like London our violent crime rate is out of control n we have no guns to defend ourselves. A kid with a knife on the street (illegal to be caught carrying a knife in the UK) is like Thanos, unstoppable. They can literally go on a spree n we have no recourse.

    Violent people do violent things, if no guns they'll just get them illegally or use cars (like the snackbars) or knives.

    They've banned knives being delivered now to peoples homes in the UK.

    There is no deterrence from crime without guns in the UK, absolutely none.

    If you want to fix violence focus on the family and early life at home.

    Keep your guns or you'll end up cucked
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    California had some of the lowest gun at 19.8% BTW.
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    Again..California is run by the biggest phaggots in the world. Don't look to them for guidance in anything.
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    The ment, enjoy it. Antonio519's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sword_ View Post
    Hey guys let's enact more laws to restrict legal gun ownership guys!



    Oh wait...

    The guy was also a Marine and Liberals always say that only cops and military should own guns and he was a former Marine.

    Cali is the litmus test for the rest of the US for these sort of laws yet they still have this problem. The guy had run ins with the law and mental health issues and no one did anything about it but hey guns are the problem guys!
    Only autistic gun nuts make this argument

    It doesn't matter if a state outlaws guns if you can get it form the next state over

    How many mass shootings do you hear of in WHOLE countries with strict gun laws

    It doesn't even matter anymore, there are too many idiots with guns in the country already, it would make it impossible to get rid of them
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    I run the Misc Briangumble's Avatar
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    If someone wants to commit a mass murder and they don't have access to guns, then they're going to use some other means such as pressure cooker bombs. Or maybe they'll go the serial killer route and just murder people one at a time.
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    Threads like this aren’t even worthy of a reply.

    How can you lack the basic reasoning skills to deduct that no, dummy, the guns are not the issue.
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    Misc Apocalypse canonhope's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by omnip0tent View Post
    Funny how people truly think we've reached some point of benevolence where the gov't is going to take care of everything and no one will have to ever fend for themselves. The very nature of having an armed and capable population is a Pillar of freedom, just because people are comfortable and think they no longer need the right to protect themselves DOES NOT MAKE IT A GOOD IDEA TO TAKE IT AWAY.


    Truly scared for our future
    This. People will get triggered when we don't all get vaccinated for herd immunity. Having guns is the same thing. Some people will die but we all gonna make it.
    Chaos and apocalypse on us all
    Let them burn to dust.

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