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    Registered User mamaherrera's Avatar
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    hope this comes off clear

    Now that Im 38, hitting close to 40, I start to wonder, how many more realistic years can i lift heavy and not have it do me harm or get injured. How many of you have been lidfting for many decades and have it not backfire on you. I hear so many things, like injuries, heart not as strong, glaucoma risks from holding breath and bracing, and I start to get discouraged. Any thoughts, experiences greatly appreciated. And side note, any offerings on alternative, safe breathing instead of valsalva would be greatly appreciated. And any other changes youve had to make in training as we get older. Thanks
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    Bigger Badder Bama bamazav's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mamaherrera View Post
    Now that Im 38, hitting close to 40, I start to wonder, how many more realistic years can i lift heavy and not have it do me harm or get injured. How many of you have been lidfting for many decades and have it not backfire on you. I hear so many things, like injuries, heart not as strong, glaucoma risks from holding breath and bracing, and I start to get discouraged. Any thoughts, experiences greatly appreciated. And side note, any offerings on alternative, safe breathing instead of valsalva would be greatly appreciated. And any other changes youve had to make in training as we get older. Thanks
    I will keep my comments simple. A.) Form, Form, Form. Most injuries are form break downs not heavy weights. b.) Heavy is relative. It will change up and down throughout your training life. I wouldn't worry too much about what you might or might not do in the future, just focus on what you can do now. I have an 85 year old client. She doesn't lift even half of what I lift, but she lifts heavy for her. She recently set a leg press PR for herself, pressing 130 lbs (We were testing maxes after a strength phase).
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    Registered User mamaherrera's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
    I will keep my comments simple. A.) Form, Form, Form. Most injuries are form break downs not heavy weights. b.) Heavy is relative. It will change up and down throughout your training life. I wouldn't worry too much about what you might or might not do in the future, just focus on what you can do now. I have an 85 year old client. She doesn't lift even half of what I lift, but she lifts heavy for her. She recently set a leg press PR for herself, pressing 130 lbs (We were testing maxes after a strength phase).
    Thanks good pointers to keep in mind.
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    Do you like lifting ? I'm similar age and I only properly started lifting about a year ago (had been to the gym on and off before for years but only for machine chest press , curls , leg press etc the normal noob stuff) . I just feel like if you enjoy doing it then do it because really who knows what's going to happen in the future ? And tbh I think 38 is way too early to be worrying about it . The only difference between me now and when I was 21 is that I think I take it a little more easy , don't get too hyped and don't push myself to a 100% max effort and then failure , well only rarely do I do this . I think it's just sensible to reign it in a little . After all I'm not going to be a pro powerlifter or anything . I'm doing it for strength and aesthetics ultimately but I'm happy with having 90% of my possible gains rather than 100% but with much higher chance of injury - if that makes sense
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    Registered User mamaherrera's Avatar
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    I do like lifting but Im not comfortable with holding breath during lifts and now that Im lifting lower and a bitheavier, its needed. And ive already had minor injuries so I take it on precautiously. I do enjoy but when I hear the risks then I get hesitant and doubtful.
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    Bigger Badder Bama bamazav's Avatar
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    Proper breathing is necessary and protective, As I stated earlier, most weightlifting related injuries are due more to form than the weight. In the 10 years I have been powerlifting, I have never had a bloody nose after a lift or blown a vessel in my eyes. I also have learned my body and know when to shut things down. The people I have known that have blown a vessel all stated they forgot to exhale properly (form issue). Form is everything. If you can't do an exercise properly, you really shouldn't be trying to do that exercise.

    I recommend reading a book called, "A Gift of Injury," as it will help you prehab and create a plan that will allow you to train and stay healthy. There are also some great mobility trainers out there too, John Russin, Kelly Starret to name a couple, learn from them too. The best lifters know their own body and train accordingly.
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    Registered User mamaherrera's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
    Proper breathing is necessary and protective, As I stated earlier, most weightlifting related injuries are due more to form than the weight. In the 10 years I have been powerlifting, I have never had a bloody nose after a lift or blown a vessel in my eyes. I also have learned my body and know when to shut things down. The people I have known that have blown a vessel all stated they forgot to exhale properly (form issue). Form is everything. If you can't do an exercise properly, you really shouldn't be trying to do that exercise.

    I recommend reading a book called, "A Gift of Injury," as it will help you prehab and create a plan that will allow you to train and stay healthy. There are also some great mobility trainers out there too, John Russin, Kelly Starret to name a couple, learn from them too. The best lifters know their own body and train accordingly.
    so very true. . . form and it's so hard to find a trainer where I live that really can teach form right. If you learn from a bad teacher, you're set up for failure. So basically you're saying that they were forgetting to exhale or perhaps trying to hold breath through many reps?
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    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    There's a book about training for the over 40s called "The barbell prescription" co written by a lifting coach (Andy Baker) and a doctor (Jon Sullivan, this one https://www.greysteel.org not other docs of similar name)

    Anyway he and gives a medical appraisal of vasalva and its risks/benefits and not just gives it a clean bill of health but describes as a necessity to prevent injury on heavy lifts. Also common sense, if you were going to push a really heavy car or pickup something really heavy this is what you do naturally anyway. It's actually weird and unnatural to Not do it.

    Anyway... dip into the book for the full medical arguments
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    temporary illusion supramax's Avatar
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    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

    It's easy to not be afraid of tigers when you're sitting in your living room watching a television program about tigers. When you're in the jungle where the tigers are, it's quite a different story.
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    Anyways, if anyone has concerns about the VM, get checked out by a doctor. Also, you don't have to hold the breath for the negative and the positive movements; you can breath in on the negative. Lastly, the VM is only for really heavy **** in the 1-3 rep range. IMHO!!!
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Anyways, if anyone has concerns about the VM, get checked out by a doctor. Also, you don't have to hold the breath for the negative and the positive movements; you can breath in on the negative. Lastly, the VM is only for really heavy **** in the 1-3 rep range. IMHO!!!
    Guess my brain isn't working this morning. I've read this several times and still can't figure out what VM is referring to. It must be something really long because typing really isn't that hard.
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    Long Drive Athlete bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
    I will keep my comments simple. A.) Form, Form, Form. Most injuries are form break downs not heavy weights. b.) Heavy is relative. It will change up and down throughout your training life. I wouldn't worry too much about what you might or might not do in the future, just focus on what you can do now. I have an 85 year old client. She doesn't lift even half of what I lift, but she lifts heavy for her. She recently set a leg press PR for herself, pressing 130 lbs (We were testing maxes after a strength phase).
    Maybe I have a different perspective. I've seen lots of people get injured with decent form. I've witnessed two total bicep tears where the person had impeccable form. I've seen a guy's knee just give out, out of nowhere, when he was pressing a 250 pound log with perfect form ( a very advanced lifter ). That one did not end well. For probably 15 minutes util the paramedics came and injected him with morphine, I'm sure the entire neighborhood heard the screaming, probably half a mile away, literal. Yes, use good form, but it's not enough to protect 100% of the time, just saying.

    Now that Im 38, hitting close to 40 (snip) And any other changes youve had to make in training as we get older
    To the OP...38 isn't anything, and the years that end in a zero are not any more important than the other years. The changes I've made to my lifting have included reducing heaving lifting down to very rare. It's been a hard change for me, I didn't want to acknolodge that lifting heavy isn't always the best thing to do. I loved lifting heavy, I love how it feels to move big weight, but I know if I continue to do it, Ill need to have my other hip replaced way sooner than if I lifted for hypertrophy instead of strength ( and I guess I've decided that that's not worth it ).

    Good luck, hope you figure things out for yourself.
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    Guess my brain isn't working this morning...
    Clearly.
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    Maybe I have a different perspective. I've seen lots of people get injured with decent form...
    If your form is spot on, you can't get injured.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    If your form is spot on, you can't get injured.
    Hahahahaha. Yeah good one.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Clearly.
    Oh yeah, very funny. I'm glad I'm not perfect like you apparently are.
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    Hahahahaha. Yeah good one.
    You negged me for disagreeing with your moronic statement. Backatcha.
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    Oh yeah, very funny. I'm glad I'm not perfect like you apparently are.
    You have an inferiority complex. It's not my problem.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Bigger Badder Bama bamazav's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    Maybe I have a different perspective. I've seen lots of people get injured with decent form. I've witnessed two total bicep tears where the person had impeccable form. I've seen a guy's knee just give out, out of nowhere, when he was pressing a 250 pound log with perfect form ( a very advanced lifter ). That one did not end well. For probably 15 minutes util the paramedics came and injected him with morphine, I'm sure the entire neighborhood heard the screaming, probably half a mile away, literal. Yes, use good form, but it's not enough to protect 100% of the time, just saying.
    I don't disagree, I too have seen injuries despite good from. Maybe I over generalized, but I stand by my position that you are more likely to be injured using bad form than from perfect form. My point is the OP is worrying about something in the future that can not be controlled and that building a foundation of good form will help when that future day arrives. You are correct, good form is no more a 100% guarantee of protection than looking both ways before crossing guarantees you will never be hit by a car.
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    Thanks I will definitely look into it, but the study that Supramax leaves below does recommend doing forced exhalation, but I would then need to learn how to do that.
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    Yes I've read this too, SUPRAMAX, now I need to learn to do forced exhalation, thanks for sharing! Can you find a good explanation or share wiht me how to do forced exhalation?
    Thanks every one for sharing their opinions, and I think working on flexibility and mobility become super more important now as we go up in age as well. My final question is this:

    If I choose to do forced exhalation, or don't know what other options are there (I do 5 rep sets, so I'm seeing many times I don't need to do VM) what kind of breathing is optimal then besides that? I see about breathing in on the negative, does that mean you get the breath before you go down in a squat and hold it till you come up, or . .. . . do you take a breath in as you're going down and then just hold it a second in the difficult exertion part?? That's where my confusion is when they say "breath in on the negative" to me that seems like you're breathing in as you're going down. Which would be cool if it's safe.

    I do that when I'm chest pressing. . I breath in as I bring the weight ( not much) towards me and then exhale lifting it back up.
    Last edited by mamaherrera; 11-07-2018 at 11:04 AM. Reason: added more
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    In my gym there is a guy, Steve, who's 67 now and he's awesome! He's got a build that many 20 YO's would like to have. So you can keep going at least that long.

    With that said, Steve has had his share of injuries due to age or whatever. He gets cortisone shots in the shoulders, had a should replaced (says if you get the chance to do that, PASS), and the amount of weight he lifts is less than what he used to. But he finds different ways to challenge himself and explained to me how he lost interest in lifting heavy and changed his focus on to core strength.

    I agree with the others comments above but as I mentioned in my own post early, the reason I love lifting is because its me against the man in the mirror....no one else. I just have to be better than I was yesterday. So keep doing it if you like it.
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    Very good point made, eh? Our focuses will change, just have to listen to the body. Have a connection with the body and pray we can all avoid those shoulder injuries. I never know if all the running from a teen will cause me to have a knee replacement in the future or not, but I didn't worry about it then. So just try and do the best we can do.
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    Originally Posted by mamaherrera View Post
    Now that Im 38, hitting close to 40, I start to wonder, how many more realistic years can i lift heavy and not have it do me harm or get injured. How many of you have been lidfting for many decades and have it not backfire on you. I hear so many things, like injuries, heart not as strong, glaucoma risks from holding breath and bracing, and I start to get discouraged. Any thoughts, experiences greatly appreciated. And side note, any offerings on alternative, safe breathing instead of valsalva would be greatly appreciated. And any other changes youve had to make in training as we get older. Thanks
    Dude you are still young, hit it hard and heavy for another 10 years.
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    thanks,you're so sweet, I think it's midlife crisis and I'm prone to injury as I have such bad body mechanics and then trying lately the VM, was making me dizzy so that has had me a bit worried and just looking for another safer option for me as far as breathing and taking care of my spine and my brain at the same time :-))
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    I've been training for over 34 yrs and haven't changed anything yet. I've always lifted heavy and I've never had a gym injury. I think having a strong foundation and overall muscle balance has helped in taking me this far. Your body will let you know if you need to make adjustments along the way.

    I think a lot of injuries are happening outside the gym...not inside.
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    Thanks Kimm, you've made very good points and you are my inspiration
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    Originally Posted by mamaherrera View Post
    Yes I've read this too, SUPRAMAX, now I need to learn to do forced exhalation, thanks for sharing! Can you find a good explanation or share wiht me how to do forced exhalation?
    Thanks every one for sharing their opinions, and I think working on flexibility and mobility become super more important now as we go up in age as well. My final question is this:

    If I choose to do forced exhalation, or don't know what other options are there (I do 5 rep sets, so I'm seeing many times I don't need to do VM) what kind of breathing is optimal then besides that? I see about breathing in on the negative, does that mean you get the breath before you go down in a squat and hold it till you come up, or . .. . . do you take a breath in as you're going down and then just hold it a second in the difficult exertion part?? That's where my confusion is when they say "breath in on the negative" to me that seems like you're breathing in as you're going down. Which would be cool if it's safe.

    I do that when I'm chest pressing. . I breath in as I bring the weight ( not much) towards me and then exhale lifting it back up.
    I would imagine the forced exhalation is exactly that; a forced exhalation ranging from the karate kiai that Rippetoe mistakenly equates to the VM (Valsalva Maneuver ) to the complete 3 stage expiration known in Hatha Yoga as Bhastrika.
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    so yeah. .. breath in as you're descending?? Or get it before you descend? sorry I'm so particular but I"m very anal on things like this. .. . . that's just me,
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    You negged me for disagreeing with your moronic statement. Backatcha.
    Yeah I did because it was a stupid comment and not relevant to the thread. Back at me all you want, you know you're comment was stupid.
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