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  1. #8101
    Registered User Gringo12's Avatar
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    BAT was an impressive project even during the last bullrun and went entirely unnoticed mainly due to the price movement being comparable to USDT
    #free6ix9ine < accomplished
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  2. #8102
    Incel Parkerscott's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gringo12 View Post
    BAT was an impressive project even during the last bullrun and went entirely unnoticed mainly due to the price movement being comparable to USDT
    It was and is impressive, but nobody wants to buy it. Luckily nobody has to buy it for it to be extremely successful. The advertisers will hopefully take care of that. Im just hoping i can sell mine back to them at a premium.
    lol at chromecels and firefoxcels

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  3. #8103
    Registered User Horse86's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wickedman View Post
    BAT aiming to be #2 on CMC again, see you all in on my private island.
    Originally Posted by wickedman View Post
    Could be perfect timing for it all, market finally comes back and BAT starts dropping haymakers at the same time. Could only imagine what actual news would produce in a bull market given what a bunch of complete **** did last time.
    Wut m8? it's #30 and barely got back to where it was 3 months ago. It did fuk all compared to others, ICX for one, this past week let alone month.
    Last edited by Horse86; 02-06-2020 at 04:46 AM.
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  4. #8104
    Banned PimpMasterC's Avatar
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    I don´t think proof of work will survive long term

    - Too much energy used (if there is a more climate friendly way to do it, it should be done imo)

    - Easy for governments, thievs etc to target big mining facilities (proof of stake mining is much more undercower and low key + it´s easier to participate

    - No non diltuve inflation (The possibility of non-dilutive inflation, as in Tezos, introduces another element. In addition to a convenience yield, the holding of a cryptocurrency can entitle a holder to receive block rewards. These too must be discounted when computing an effective supply. If the supply of tez increases by 5%, but the balance of all Tezos holders increases by the same amount at the same time, the inflation is neutral. The proof-of-stake mechanism in Tezos does not magically create real rewards out of thin air, it redistributes ownership from participants who fail to participate in securing the network to those who do. An effective supply metric should not only be adjusted for time value, and convenience yield, but also for rewards earned through staking/baking.

    All else equal, the existence of dilutive inflation does diminish the value proposition of a cryptocurrency as a store of value, but it is incorrect to assume that the existence of a supply cap creates a categorically different situation. The presence of staking rewards, of a convenience yield, and of a time discount all contribute to the formation of a finite “effective supply”, which is the relevant metric."


    Lack of on chain governance is also a critical mistake imo. Changes need to be cordinated on chain, or else a lot of infighing and confusion will happen, as seen with the Ethereum hard fork were community members felt like they got screwed over. Isn´t the point of crypto to give power to the people? Well, let the people decide what changes are gonna be made, not a small inner circle of devs.

    "The present relevance of future shocks to the money supply decays exponentially the further in the future they are. Evidently, the massive uncertainty over the total supply of gold on earth did not stop it from being a good store of value and means of exchange for millennia."
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  5. #8105
    Banned PimpMasterC's Avatar
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    "The meme that proof-of-work equates “hard money” has been successful in no small part due to the mental image of mining involving expensive hardware. Large mining operations, hydroelectric dams, nuclear power plants: all of these evoke a certain sturdiness, making the cognitive leap to “hard money” easier. Others will suggest that “hard money” properties are conferred when the mining of coins is provably costly. However, the creation of new coins is only costly provided that the protocol is followed. If we grant that the protocol is indeed followed, then the creation of coin can be made infinitely cheap or expensive at will.


    The reality of the situation is that proof-of-stake is fundamentally less inflationary than proof-of-work. Because there is no external signal in the protocol that indicates who should receive newly minted coins, there is not a lot of room for dilutive inflation to take place. If the only form of identity on the network is stake, the path of least resistance is for inflation to be non-dilutive. In mining, coins can be issued to whoever solves a hash puzzle. In a proof-of-stake based consensus, the only available signal, ex-ante, is stake. This does not intend to be an airtight argument, some proof-of-stake designs involve elements other than stake. Block producers in EOS, for instance, compete in elections and use off-chain elements to market themselves. Rather, our argument is that the natural inclination of proof-of-stake based models is to tend towards non-dilutive inflation.

    This is not without its drawbacks! Among several, it greatly complicates the matter of initial allocations for instance. However, when it comes to concerns about debasement, proof-of-stake seems clearly superior to proof-of-work as a Sybil prevention mechanism. The author’s interest in proof-of-stake is motivated because he values “hard money”, i.e. money free from undue debasement.

    It should be clear by now that, to a large extent, non-dilutive inflation is economically no different from respecting a supply cap. The number of coins may increase, but no one needs to see their fraction meaningfully reduced. Another way to look at it is that, in both cases, there is a limit on the number of coins that can be mined. That limits just happens to be 0 for proof-of-stake, because there is no mining."
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  6. #8106
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    10k in sight boyos

    **MFC**
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  7. #8107
    Registered User Horse86's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iifymbro View Post
    10k in sight boyos

    [img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/bf/7e/3bbf7ecc782afdaefc493b5a353291aa.jpg[img]
    I'd imagine if it breaks 10k the news will be all over it and we'll get a nice pump.
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  8. #8108
    Throbbing Member jamalfudge's Avatar
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    If NEM Brah makes an appearance in the next day or two, bull run confirmed.
    #chaga_gangsta
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  9. #8109
    Registered User Horse86's Avatar
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    or KennyPowers "the financial advisor"
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  10. #8110
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    Originally Posted by Horse86 View Post
    Wut m8? it's #30 and barely got back to where it was 3 months ago. It did fuk all compared to others, ICX for one, this past week let alone month.
    yeah but whos holding a big bag of icx waiting for it to pop off? Whos to say that a BAT run wont rival all of those other in due time also?
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  11. #8111
    Registered User Horse86's Avatar
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    I mean BAT is down 90% from its ATH so there are plenty of BAT bags around. Still waiting for Bat to do something...anything....for the last year. It still hasn't recovered half of what it 52 week high was. ICX has....
    Last edited by Horse86; 02-06-2020 at 08:31 AM.
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  12. #8112
    Registered User wickedman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Horse86 View Post
    I mean BAT is down 90% from its ATH so there are plenty of BAT bags around. Still waiting for Bat to do something...anything....for the last year. It still hasn't recovered half of what it 52 week high was. ICX has....
    BAT all time high - $0.97 = down 73% from all time high.

    ICX all time high - $12.43 = down 96% from all time high.

    BAT is one of the lightest bags one can be carrying from the last bull run. Saved a ton of money dumping all my OMG, OX, IOTA trash into BAT on the way down.
    #FreeCryptoBandit
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  13. #8113
    Registered User SleeveStretchin's Avatar
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    We all still alive? Haha, could this be the true start of the next insane run?
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  14. #8114
    Registered User ghostfacedup's Avatar
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    lol @ proof of work failing because of "the environment" ...lol no one cares.
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  15. #8115
    Throbbing Member jamalfudge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ghostfacedup View Post
    lol @ proof of work failing because of "the environment" ...lol no one cares.
    Yeah the energy use meme for POW is way overblown.
    #chaga_gangsta
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  16. #8116
    Registered User Horse86's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wickedman View Post
    BAT all time high - $0.97 = down 73% from all time high.

    ICX all time high - $12.43 = down 96% from all time high.

    BAT is one of the lightest bags one can be carrying from the last bull run. Saved a ton of money dumping all my OMG, OX, IOTA trash into BAT on the way down.
    in the grand scheme of things everything went down 75-95%. At the end of the day its all bags. But if you bought in the past year you are out of the hole for ICX....Bat still well underwater. I've also DCA'd along the way

    I'm just taking my profits...same as I did when Link went parabolic and no one believed.
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  17. #8117
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    Originally Posted by ghostfacedup View Post
    lol @ proof of work failing because of "the environment" ...lol no one cares.
    Thats one of the reasons, yeah. Many actually do care. One could argue very well that pos is much more substainable in the long term, and that the economic model of bitcoin is not ideal. Most crypto investors invest based on their gut feeling though, so not expecting too much from the crypto community. Many agree that bitcoin has to have block rewards. So what will happen when there is no more block rewards left to the miners.

    "These rewards need to come from somewhere. In the case of proof-of-work, they come primarily from the issuance of new coins, diluting the supply. They are thus ultimately paid by the holders of the currency, and largely end up in the pocket of electricity producers. In a proof-of-stake system like Tezos, they come from the creation of new coins as well, but this creation is not dilutive since block creation rights are assigned roughly in proportion to coin holding.

    In order to abide by its 21 million bitcoin limit, the design of Bitcoin assumes that, over time, the block reward can be replaced with the transaction costs paid by users to be included in a block. However, as explained in section 1.2.2 of the Tezos position paper, this creates a tragedy of the commons where users are encouraged to push their transactions off-chain and delay settlements so as not to be the one sucker paying the tab to provide security for the whole network. Paying for network security through inflation is incentives compatible, paying for it with transaction fees is not."


    Another thought of the day. Ethereum 2.0 scares institutions from using ethereum, because of the drastic change it will have. A lot of problems are likely to pop up when making such a big change, it´s viewed as pretty risky. Therefore, going with a platform that wont make such a big change is a safer bet. However, a little bit of change is good, just not too often, it´s a fine line. You still want the platform to integrate new important tech, but not so often and drastic that companies using the tech has to spend an enormous amount of resources to keep up with it.

    At the end of the day, I think devs and investors will migrate to blockchains that are actually going places. Bitcoin has had very little innovation since the beginning and soft forks are frowned upon, and the lighting network seems like a disaster. Ethereum are having some problems trasforming to ETH.20 and who knows how long it will take, + all the other problems with eth like the lack of on chain governance and formal verification. People will eventually be fed up with the chains that are moving forward in turtle speed, while other chains are moving much faster. The economics of bitcoin are also vastly overrated imo, "but hurr durr there are only 21 million btc and never more". Whenever I hear this, I assume I´m not speaking to the brightest person.
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  18. #8118
    Registered User Contribution05's Avatar
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  19. #8119
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    Originally Posted by Contribution05 View Post
    The sad part is everyone really should have been on the 4chan bandwagon with Link. That place was shilling/fudding Link like no other, and damn crypto is up 250% from when the crypto bubble bursted and everything else in same time is down 50-99%.
    Only reason I have surpassed by Jan 2018 ATH. It looks pretty due for a pump soon
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    Geez watching some crypto youtubers. My jimmies are getting rustled by how dumb they are. Promoting useless chitcoins and bad arguments, but the sheep eat it up. I miss the bear market. Apparently not enough chitcoins died. A few good youtubers like Ivan on tech, but most youtubers with "investor" in their name are retarded. I´m the best
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    Originally Posted by PimpMasterC View Post
    Geez watching some crypto youtubers. My jimmies are getting rustled by how dumb they are. Promoting useless chitcoins and bad arguments, but the sheep eat it up. I miss the bear market. Apparently not enough chitcoins died. A few good youtubers like Ivan on tech, but most youtubers with "investor" in their name are retarded. I´m the best
    PimpMasterC, in all honesty, from your posts you seem to be the quintessential Dunning Kruger:



    I hope you realise this and don't get hurt too much financially.

    At the very least, proceed cautiously with your allocations to 'cryptocurrency'.
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    Originally Posted by wickedman View Post
    BAT all time high - $0.97 = down 73% from all time high.

    ICX all time high - $12.43 = down 96% from all time high.

    BAT is one of the lightest bags one can be carrying from the last bull run. Saved a ton of money dumping all my OMG, OX, IOTA trash into BAT on the way down.
    Just compare an all time BAT chart vs the all time Icon chart. One looks like a textbook dead stock and the other looks like one that hasn't had any real attention yet.
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    What sh!t coin have you guys loaded up on for the next run?
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    Originally Posted by PimpMasterC View Post
    "These rewards need to come from somewhere. In the case of proof-of-work, they come primarily from the issuance of new coins, diluting the supply. They are thus ultimately paid by the holders of the currency, and largely end up in the pocket of electricity producers. In a proof-of-stake system like Tezos, they come from the creation of new coins as well, but this creation is not dilutive since block creation rights are assigned roughly in proportion to coin holding.
    This doesn't make sense at all.

    Under POW consensus, it is true block rewards are earned by miners but it is mined with an irretrievable sunk in the form of energy costs and hardware capital. The mined POW cryptocurrency is often then sold on the market, however, the price is pegged to the cost of investment (to a degree). Why would a miner sell their bitcoin for less than their investment?

    With Bitcoin the existing supply may be diluted but the overall supply is fixed and block rewards trends towards 0.

    Under Tezos staking, those that stake and earn block rewards will then sell it on the market (like POW) thereby increasing the supply, how on Earth is this not ‘dilutive’?
    Whoever wrote this is an idiot.

    Originally Posted by PimpMasterC View Post
    In order to abide by its 21 million bitcoin limit, the design of Bitcoin assumes that, over time, the block reward can be replaced with the transaction costs paid by users to be included in a block. However, as explained in section 1.2.2 of the Tezos position paper, this creates a tragedy of the commons where users are encouraged to push their transactions off-chain and delay settlements so as not to be the one sucker paying the tab to provide security for the whole network. Paying for network security through inflation is incentives compatible, paying for it with transaction fees is not."
    See graph of Bitcoin fee % over time below – it has remained relatively constant. This means transactions fees are increasing to compensate for the decrease (halving) of block rewards over time. Clearly the market is willing to pay transaction fees.

    I also do not understand why users would push their transactions “off-chain” and delay settlements.
    Most settlements require an immediate exchange of goods or services. How does delaying settlement help?
    Also every person that makes a transaction pays a transaction fee, how is there one sucker that pays the fee to secure the whole network? This is very confusing and I do not understand what the write is trying to get at. I am going to assume the writer paraphrased it very poorly.

    Originally Posted by PimpMasterC View Post
    At the end of the day, I think devs and investors will migrate to blockchains that are actually going places. Bitcoin has had very little innovation since the beginning and soft forks are frowned upon, and the lighting network seems like a disaster. Ethereum are having some problems trasforming to ETH.20 and who knows how long it will take, + all the other problems with eth like the lack of on chain governance and formal verification. People will eventually be fed up with the chains that are moving forward in turtle speed, while other chains are moving much faster.
    Bitcoin implementations are “slow” for good reason. Proposals are reviewed and tested in detail. This is a network that has lasted 10+ years and hasn’t been fundamentally compromised.

    Distributed protocols that are able to make large implementations quickly have one or more of the following characteristics:

    • They are centralised – this defeats the whole purpose of “cryptocurrency” in the first place.
    • They have a small community of voters/nodes who are not able to critically assess implementation proposals – this opens up the protocol for buggy or fundamentally flawed proposals.
    • They implement changes through a ‘backdoor’ in the protocol.

    All of the above make for a poor cryptocurrency that I would not put money in.

    Originally Posted by PimpMasterC View Post
    The economics of bitcoin are also vastly overrated imo, "but hurr durr there are only 21 million btc and never more". Whenever I hear this, I assume I´m not speaking to the brightest person.
    Of course the economics of Bitcoin is not as simple as its supply cap – its just one of the factors. Bitcoin is valuable because:

    • It is secured by proof-of-work. The only consensus mechanism that has been tested at scale for a period of 10 years and has remained fundamentally sound.
    • The inability to compromise the network through robust built-in monetary policy (both disincentives and incentives).
    • It functions on the longest chain rule.
    • Fixed supply
    • It’s first mover advantage and its (prime) position to establish itself as the dominant non-sovereign store of value.
    • It’s ability to fork to gain desirable characteristics (i.e. second layer solutions).
    • The ability for anyone to join the network and make transactions.
    • It is scarcity, portability, durability, divisibility and fungibility.
    • Proven store-of-value since its inception. If you invested at any point in time there is a 94% chance you would have retained or increased your position.
    Last edited by Serenadium; 02-07-2020 at 01:55 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Parkerscott View Post
    Just compare an all time BAT chart vs the all time Icon chart. One looks like a textbook dead stock and the other looks like one that hasn't had any real attention yet.
    or one that hasn't really done anything yet.
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    Originally Posted by Horse86 View Post

    I'm just taking my profits...same as I did when Link went parabolic and no one believed.
    Originally Posted by Contribution05 View Post
    The sad part is everyone really should have been on the 4chan bandwagon with Link. That place was shilling/fudding Link like no other, and damn crypto is up 250% from when the crypto bubble bursted and everything else in same time is down 50-99%.
    Originally Posted by broseidon View Post
    Only reason I have surpassed by Jan 2018 ATH. It looks pretty due for a pump soon
    and another 10% pump overnight. It's like I'm single-handedly calling the market
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    Originally Posted by Serenadium View Post
    This doesn't make sense at all.

    Under POW consensus, it is true block rewards are earned by miners but it is mined with an irretrievable sunk in the form of energy costs and hardware capital. The mined POW cryptocurrency is often then sold on the market, however, the price is pegged to the cost of investment (to a degree). Why would a miner sell their bitcoin for less than their investment?

    With Bitcoin the existing supply may be diluted but the overall supply is fixed and block rewards trends towards 0.



    Bitcoin implementations are “slow” for good reason. Proposals are reviewed and tested in detail. This is a network that has lasted 10+ years and hasn’t been fundamentally compromised.

    Distributed protocols that are able to make large implementations quickly have one or more of the following characteristics:

    • They are centralised – this defeats the whole purpose of “cryptocurrency” in the first place.
    • They have a small community of voters/nodes who are not able to critically assess implementation proposals – this opens up the protocol for buggy or fundamentally flawed proposals.
    • They implement changes through a ‘backdoor’ in the protocol.

    All of the above make for a poor cryptocurrency that I would not put money in.



    Of course the economics of Bitcoin is not as simple as its supply cap – its just one of the factors. Bitcoin is valuable because:

    • It is secured by proof-of-work. The only consensus mechanism that has been tested at scale for a period of 10 years and has remained fundamentally sound.
    • The inability to compromise the network through robust built-in monetary policy (both disincentives and incentives).
    • It functions on the longest chain rule.
    • Fixed supply
    • It’s first mover advantage and its (prime) position to establish itself as the dominant non-sovereign store of value.
    • It’s ability to fork to gain desirable characteristics (i.e. second layer solutions).
    • The ability for anyone to join the network and make transactions.
    • It is scarcity, portability, durability, divisibility and fungibility.
    • Proven store-of-value since its inception. If you invested at any point in time there is a 94% chance you would have retained or increased your position.

    Slow is good and all, but I think me and many others think bitcoin is way too slow. It should be valuable because of it´s long run time and proven security. I´m not hating on that part of bitcoin. I am very against centralized crypto currencies, but Tezos is not one of them. Changes are made every year on tezos after a few months of voting and testing. And these changes carry "true legitimacy", unlike changes made to protocols without on chain governance.

    Proof of work is the best tested and fundamentally sound so far, but this can very well change. It´s not set in stone, as proof of work has yet to defeat some of the biggest tests/weaknesses. I will link to where this is discussed in more detail (yes, im a tezos fanboy and think arthur is one of the smartest guys in crypto). I don´t btc is the best store of value, gold is better for example. Btc is a decent sov at most imo, but that could be argued. As for the other points you wrote, they are not too impressing. It has first mover advantage and brand recignition, sure. But other cryptos will get huge brand recignition in the future too, likely. A fixed supply is not necessarily a good thing. The macro economic effects can poosible be very bad, and there is higher chance of so, than an infinite supply imo. I like bitcoin and think it deserves the number 1 spot, for now. I predict btc will not have the number 1 spot in 10 years tho.



    People will in the future likely prefer to make off chain transactions on bitcoin since it will be cheaper and faster. If you don´t you are paying for the secutity of those who do don´t. It assumes that many transaction will in the future be moved to side chains on btc, and people will use it because its faster and cheaper. From what I understand bitc will never scale unless transactions are moved to a sidechain. This will likely create a tragedy of the commons scenario.



    Because if you stake your coins, which anybody can do, you counter the inflation + an extra %. Therfore you receive more coins than are minted in %. Inlation is around 5.5%, while you get a % of the block rewards (6,5 % of your stake annually) if you stake and help secure the network. Securing the network is rewarded. In pow you can´t get a piece of the block rewards because miners need all of it to justify mining. Therefore there is higher inlation in one sense in bitcoins pow, than in the tezos pos. You get a piece of the new coins inflating the supply in tezos, but you dont in bitcoin. Everyone can participate in securing the tezos network, not everyone can in bitcoin. You get a piece of the cake in tezos if you stake which is as easy as keeping it on coinbase. You dont get a piece of the bitcoin cake unless you own expensive gear and run a full time operation. The founder of tezos wrote that and he is extremely smart.
    "In a proof-of-stake system like Tezos, they come from the creation of new coins as well, but this creation is not dilutive since block creation rights are assigned roughly in proportion to coin holding."

    Source
    https://ex.rs/on-supply-caps/
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    1.2 Shortcomings of Proof-of-Work
    The proof-of-work mechanism used by Bitcoin is a careful balance of incentives
    meant to prevent the double spending problem. While it has nice theoretical
    properties in the absence of miner collusion, it suffers in practice from severe
    shortcomings.

    1.2.1 Mining Power Concentration
    There are several problems with proof-of-work as a foundation for crypto-currencies.
    The most salient problem, which is all too relevant as of 2014, is the existence
    of centralized mining pools, which concentrate power in the hands of a few
    individuals.
    The proof-of-work mechanism is decentralized, which means that users do
    not need to explicitly trust anyone to secure the currency. However, implicitly,
    Bitcoin has yielded a system where all users have to trust the benevolence of
    one or two pool operators to secure the currency.
    A conspiracy of miners holding more than 50% of the hashing power is
    known as 51% attack[7]. It allows the attackers to prevent transactions from
    being made, to undo transactions, to steal recently minted coins and to to double
    spend[8].
    A centralized mint signing blocks would be just as secure, and far less wasteful, as a miner controlling 51% of the hashing power. If a centralized mint is
    unacceptable to Bitcoin users, they should not tolerate de facto centralization
    of mining power.
    The concentration of mining power is no coincidence: large mining pools
    face less variance in their returns than their competitors and can thus afford to
    grow their operation more. In turn, this growth increases their market share
    and lowers their variance.
    To make things worse, the large mining pool ghash.io has hinted at a business
    model where they would prioritize “premium” transactions submitted directly
    5
    to them. This means that large miners would earn proportionally more than
    smaller miners. Sadly, p2pool has had trouble attracting hashing power as most
    miners selfishly prefer the convenience of centralized mining-pools.
    Many have argued that fears of market concentration are overblown. They
    are generalizing hastily from the real world economy. Real businesses compete
    in a rapidly changing landscape where Schumpeterian creative destruction exercises constant evolutionary pressure on incumbents. Real businesses need local
    knowledge, face organizational issues and principal agent problems. Bitcoin
    mining is a purely synthetic economic sector centered around hashing power, a
    purely fungible commodity. It would be mistaken to hastily generalize and think
    that such a sterile environment is endowed with the same organic robustness
    that characterizes a complex, fertile, economy.5
    Furthermore, the economic argument generally holds that natural monopolies have few incentives to abuse their position. The same could be said about
    a Bitcoin miner — after all, why would a dominant miner destroy the value
    of their investments by compromising the currency? Unfortunately, this still
    creates a huge systemic risk as such miners can be compromised by a dishonest
    attacker. The cost of executing a double spending attack against the network
    is no more than the cost of subverting a few large mining pools.
    There have been proposals intended to address this issue by tweaking the
    protocol so it would be impossible for pool organizers to trust their members not
    to cheat. However, these proposals only prevent pools from gathering mining
    force from anonymous participants with whom there is no possibility of retaliation. Pooling is still possible between non-anonymous people: organizers may
    operate all the mining hardware while participants hold shares, or organizers
    may track cheaters by requiring inclusion of an identifying nonce in the blocks
    they are supposed to hash. The result of such proposals would thus be to increase variance for anonymous mining operations and to push towards further
    concentration in the hands of mining cartels.
    Proof-of-stake, as used by Tezos, does not suffer from this problem: inasmuch
    as it is possible to hold 51% of the mining power, this implies holding 51% of the
    currency, which is not only much more onerous than controlling 51% of hashing
    power but implies fundamentally better incentives.

    1.2.2 Bad incentives
    There is an even deeper problem with proof-of-work, one that is much harder to
    mitigate than the concentration of mining power: a misalignment of incentives
    between miners and stakeholders.
    Indeed, in the long run, the total mining revenues will be the sum of the all
    transaction fees paid to the miners. Since miners compete to produce hashes,
    the amount of money spent on mining will be slightly smaller than the revenues.
    In turn, the amount spent on transactions depends on the supply and demand
    for transactions. The supply of transactions on the blockchain is determined by
    the block size and is fixed.
    Unfortunately, there is reason to expect that the demand for transactions
    will fall to very low levels. People are likely to make use of off-chain transaction
    mechanisms via trusted third parties, particularly for small amounts, in order
    to alleviate the need to wait for confirmations. Payment processors may only
    need to clear with each other infrequently.
    This scenario is not only economically likely, it seems necessary given the
    relatively low transaction rate supported by Bitcoin. Since blockchain transaction will have to compete with off-chain transaction, the amount spent on
    transactions will approach its cost, which, given modern infrastructure, should
    be close to zero.
    Attempting to impose minimum transaction fees may only exacerbate the
    problem and cause users to rely on off-chain transaction more. As the amount
    paid in transaction fees collapses, so will the miner’s revenues, and so will the
    cost of executing a 51% attack. To put it in a nutshell, the security of a proofof-work blockchain suffers from a commons problem[9]. Core developer Mike
    Hearn has suggested the use of special transactions to subsidize mining using a
    pledge type of fund raising[10]. A robust currency should not need to rely on
    charity to operate securely.
    Proof-of-stake fixes these bad incentives by aligning the incentives of the
    miners and stakeholders: by very definition, the miners are the stakeholders,
    and are thus interested in keeping the transaction costs low. At the same time,
    because proof-of-stake mining is not based on destruction of resources, the transaction cost (whether direct fees or indirect inflation) are entirely captured by
    miners, who can cover their operating costs without having to compete through
    wealth destruction.

    1.2.3 Cost
    An alternative is to keep permanent mining rewards, as Dogecoin[11] has considered. Unfortunately, proof-of-work arbitrarily increases the costs to the users
    without increasing the profits of the miners, incurring a deadweight loss. Indeed,
    since miners compete to produce hashes, the amount of money they spend on
    mining will be slightly smaller than the revenues, and in the long run, the profits
    they make will be commensurate with the value of their transaction services,
    while the cost of mining is lost to everyone.
    This is not simply a nominal effect: real economic goods (time in fabs,
    electricity, engineering efforts) are being removed from the economy for the
    sake of proof-of-work mining. As of June 2014, Bitcoin’s annual inflation stands
    at a little over 10% and about $2.16M dollars are being burned daily for the
    sake of maintaining a system that provides little to no security over a centralized
    system in the hands of ghash.io.
    The very security of a proof-of-work scheme rests on this actual cost being
    7
    higher than what an attacker is willing to pay, which is bound to increase with
    the success of the currency.
    Proof-of-stake eliminates this source of waste without lowering the cost of
    attacks — indeed, it automatically scales up the cost of an attack as the currency
    appreciates. Because the thing you must prove to mine is not destruction of
    existing resources but provision of existing resources, a proof-of-stake currency
    does not rely on destroying massive resources as it gains in popularity.

    1.2.4 Control
    Last but not least, the proof-of-work system puts the miners, not the stakeholders, in charge. Forks for instance require the consent of a majority of the
    miners. This poses a potential conflict of interest: a majority of miners could decide to hold the blockchain hostage until stakeholders consent to a protocol fork
    increasing the mining rewards; more generally, they will hold onto the hugely
    wasteful system that empowers them longer than is economically beneficial for
    users.

    Source:
    https://tezos.com/static/position_pa...6650152fb4.pdf


    News:
    Coronavirus shuts down Chinese Bitcoin mine
    Leading Bitcoin mining pool BTC.Top said that Chinese police closed the mine to stop the spread of coronavirus.

    The government can easily shut down big mining operations. It highlights one of the problems with POW.
    A profitable POS operation is much more difficult to shut down for the authorities
    Last edited by PimpMasterC; 02-07-2020 at 05:02 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Horse86 View Post
    or one that hasn't really done anything yet.
    What do you mean hasn't done anything yet? Brave has over 12m users, 400k+ publishers, and the ad campaigns are growing daily. Tab page ads were just added today as well.

    So far i have also earned $140 in BAT from just ads alone. The project is blowing everything else out of the water when it comes to actual development, but nobody in crypto wants to touch it. Blockmesh hypercitites with solar powered IOT nodes is all anyone seems to care about. Those projects are never going to ship.
    Last edited by Parkerscott; 02-07-2020 at 11:01 AM.
    lol at chromecels and firefoxcels

    brave browser crew
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    Originally Posted by Parkerscott View Post
    What do you mean hasn't done anything yet?
    I'm referring to the coins price....

    It's great its got a product and I know you are all aboard...but frankly, in crypto, I couldn't give 2 chits if a coin has a product or not. It's proven to be irrelevant, case in point. I'm here for profit, not projects.
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