OMAD Weight Loss while Muscle Building - Confusion?

[PlantBased1969]

Hello.

Sorry: This message will be a bit long, but I'm a bit confused and need help.

Well, I finally decided to sign up and become a forum member. I've been lurking for a while

I have a few questions, but before here is my situation:

48yrs male, 230 pounds, 6'1", 37% body fat, naturally strong from farm work, but with a slight lower back issue (slight disc bulge from bending forward all the time). Plant-based diet, nutrient dense food from the garden with good artesian water. Started doing OMAD two weeks ago (been losing 2+ pounds/weeks:

On average:

Eating 1800 calories
Burning 2800 cals
80g protein
100g carbs
100g fat
Hitting the 100% Daily value and + for: Vit C, Vit B's *exception 75% for B5, Vit K, Omega's; a bit low on nutrient vit D, but taking in plenty of sun.

On average:

Three times/week of resistance training (full body --> heavy weights @ 80% with 4-6 reps x 3 sets).
Three times/week of fat burning exercises (30/45 mins of treadmill @ 3.5 mph)
Three times/week light calisthenic/pilates to fix my lower back and get the abs in check.

Squats are body weight only and not doing deadlifts yet because I'm working on activating and building up lazy glutes.

Doing plant-based without protein powders means that I supplement with dehulled hemp hearts (seeds), tempeh, vital wheat (aka Seitan), nuts, chia seeds, and legumes. I'm hitting 80g of protein on average, can do up to 110g, but not on a daily basis.

It's hard for me to get more protein on a plant-based diet, especially because I'm trying to lose weight and keep a 900+ calorie deficit.

I'm doing OMAD which means I'm fasting most of the day. This diet does 'special things' and I think that the typical recommendations don't always apply...

I really really really want to lose weight, but do not want to be a skinny stick once the fat comes off. I've read that you can't lose weight and gain muscle on a calorie deficit. But some claim that on OMAD (because of growth hormones and other factors) it is possible if nutrients are just right?!

So far I'm losing weight and feel some muscles building, but this could be the fat beginner syndrome. Right?

Is it possible, given my situation, to lose weight and build muscle? I'm looking at four (4) months of fat lose to get to my ideal weight.

I know that 80g of protein in not much, but I'm afraid this is all I can eat. I feel like I need to keep things real, and for myself, this means I need to be able to eat what I'm currently eating for life. I do not want to bulk and cut. I want real food, but no meat and dairy. I'm not in a hurry; will 80g of protein get me somewhere -> where would that be?

Once I lose the fat, I will up the calories to maintain. Maybe at that point I can try to add an extra 20g of protein to build more muscles, but I don't want to be dependent on that extra 20g to maintain what I build.

Please share you thoughts. I'm a bit confused, because some people claim that muscle building is possible with lower amounts of protein, but other claim it is impossible. Some claim you can't gain muscle on a calorie deficit, but others have done it (they have proof it is possible). It could be beginners luck?

Thanks for reading.

[maddog352002]

Didn't read all of it. Get on a novice routine and diet. You won't be he man but you'll have a head start.

[Farley1324]

So, you are doing some special plant based diet with 80g of protein a day, on a 1k kcal a day deficit, and expect to simultaneously burn fat/lose weight/build muscle?

I don't think so, Tim

[PlantBased1969]

So, you are doing some special plant based diet with 80g of protein a day, on a 1k kcal a day deficit, and expect to simultaneously burn fat/lose weight/build muscle?

I don't think so, Tim

Ok. I guess I'll focus on being happy to lose all the fat

But do you think that at 80g protein I'll keep the muscle that I currently have? They say with OMAD you keep the muscle, no?

[Farley1324]

Ok. I guess I'll focus on being happy to lose all the fat

But do you think that at 80g protein I'll keep the muscle that I currently have? They say with OMAD you keep the muscle, no?

I don't know what OMAD is, or who they are.

I would not expect a 240 lb guy who has muscle to retain it on a 1k deficit at 80g of protein a day.

[PlantBased1969]

OMAD = One meal a day

Studies have shown that intermittent fasting increases Human Growth Hormone (HGH) and Auto****y, two important elements for preserving muscle mass. I don't know, I was under the impression that OMAD intermittent fasting with 80g protein was a good protocol. I would lose the fat, but not the muscle. Seems like there is the old school -tested-- model and the new methods coming in fast -- new protocols that claim great things (with scientific results to boot).

All I know is that I don't want to lose fat AND muscle.

[rsid97]

.Sorry: This message will be a bit long, but I'm a bit confused and need help.

You're a lot more than just a little bit confused mate.

- No such thing as fat burning exercises

- Totally forgot the point about plants not being 'nutrient dense' in macros (generally speaking)

- Listening to diet advice that makes absolutely no sense.

- Wayyyy off on protein consumption

- Is in an extreme deficit while lacking protein intake but expects to build muscle on a cut.

The people who build muscle on a cut (naturally) are on very small deficit (~200) while eating at least (if not slightly more) than 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Do the math on how far off you are.

I'm not sure what your reasons are for being strictly plant based or for following this style of routine. But if you actually want to go about losing fat while building whatever (small) amount of muscle is possible then as I said stick to a small caloric deficits, 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight and as Maddog suggested, a novice routine.

With the way you're going, you're on a express train to stick figure country.

[PlantBased1969]

You're a lot more than just a little bit confused mate.

- No such thing as fat burning exercises

- Totally forgot the point about plants not being 'nutrient dense' in macros (generally speaking)

- Listening to diet advice that makes absolutely no sense.

- Wayyyy off on protein consumption

- Is in an extreme deficit while lacking protein intake but expects to build muscle on a cut.

The people who build muscle on a cut (naturally) are on very small deficit (~200) while eating at least (if not slightly more) than 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Do the math on how far off you are.

I'm not sure what your reasons are for being strictly plant based or for following this style of routine. But if you actually want to go about losing fat while building whatever (small) amount of muscle is possible then as I said stick to a small caloric deficits, 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight and as Maddog suggested, a novice routine.

With the way you're going, you're on a express train to stick figure country.

Thanks for the honest response.

Is that 1g of protein per lb of body weight as a fat person, or the assumed lean mass? Why would fat on the body matter for optimal protein intake?

230g protein-daily is an almost impossible amount on a whole food plant-based diet. I could up the calories.

I don't eat meat because I suffer from Orthorexia.

[OldFartTom]

IMHO... OMAD works because restricting what/when you eat like that makes it more difficult to get the calories in and by accident you're following a restricted calorie diet

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macronutcal.htm

But if that approach works for you.. then do it.
Just make sure you get at *least* 1g of protein per kg of bodyweight, preferably at least 1.5 if you can. Oh, and from varied sources as you need variety to get all the amino acids.

Start a good program too.
Enjoy...

[WolfRose7]

Ideally you want to maximise MPS to minimize any chances of muscle loss,
You can't do this with one serving of protein a day...

You need multiple doses of protein (well leucine + associated amino acids) spread evenly throughout the day to maximise this.

This is the ideal though... if you need to do I.F or some such to cut then you can do so successfully but be aware it's not going to be the best approach if you want to retain, or even potentially gain (as a beginner) muscle mass during a cut

[sooby]

if you prefer eating this way and it is easiest for you to follow, it's fine, far from optimal by any means but okay. But if you are eating this way because you think it has any special or inherent weight loss properties then you are mistaken. People who promote or preach these diets as if they are the be all end all are just promoting fads, bullchit like carnivore diets, vertical diets, keto diets, paleo diets, etc. They all work and they all don't work. The common denominator of any weight loss diet is a caloric deficit, that's it.

80 grams of protein is very low. You want to up that by at least 2x as much. If anything protein has a slightly larger thermic/satiating effect than other macros although not hugely significant. But it will help preserve muscle.

Muscle gain will be very, very limited on the calories that you are at, I would not be optimistic nor make it a goal to gain muscle on that harsh of a deficit. Focus on losing fat first.

[PlantBased1969]

Thanks guys for all the replies.

Last night I typed intermittent fasting cutting in YouTube and watched some very interesting video. I can't post links in this forum because I'm a newbie (strange forum rules?!).

So now, coupled with your replies, I got all the answers I needed. I'm going to up my calorie intake to just a bit below maintenance and up my protein intake 20gram on my lifting days (3d/week).

From what I read on auto****y (e.g. recycling of the impaired/damaged catabolised proteins and organelles into new ones) and intermittent fasting (OMAD in my case), the new scientific research that shows that calorie restriction on OMAD is not necessary for fat loss, and the testimonies from people who are cutting on OMAD I feel confident that, if I up the cals and protein, I'll be successful.

I know it seems impossible, but people doing weight training while intermittent fasting seem to be breaking some dogma/rules.

I'm willing to experiment with this protocol.

Worse case scenario: I'll lose fat and whatever muscles I have.
Likely scenario: I'll lose fat and maintain.
Best case scenario: I'll lose fat and gain a bit of muscles.

But hey~ I'll lose fat.

[Farley1324]

A calorie deficit is necessary to drop bodyweight and reduce body fat. Full stop.

100g of protein some days of the week and 80g the other is still not adequate for muscular development or retention of any appreciable muscle mass, at a bodyweight of 220 lbs (or any bodyweight you will be)

If you are eating in a calorie deficit on a consistent basis, you will lose bodyweight some of which will be fat.

[HahaRaptor]

It is easier to build muscle and lose fat simultaneously on OMAD, but only when you’re eating maintenance calories, not at a calorie deficit. Plus, with you being plant based it’s going to be tough for you to make gains long term. Not to mention, your diet will cause an insulin spike from the carbohydrate content, making you feel more hungry than people on high fat diets, so you will be extremely hungry during your fasted window.

My question is why are you plant based? Our body needs fat and cholesterol to absorb vitamins and regulate hormones. Plant based diets low in fat and cholesterol will shrink your brain.

[PlantBased1969]

It is easier to build muscle and lose fat simultaneously on OMAD, but only when you’re eating maintenance calories, not at a calorie deficit. Plus, with you being plant based it’s going to be tough for you to make gains long term. Not to mention, your diet will cause an insulin spike from the carbohydrate content, making you feel more hungry than people on high fat diets, so you will be extremely hungry during your fasted window.

My question is why are you plant based? Our body needs fat and cholesterol to absorb vitamins and regulate hormones. Plant based diets low in fat and cholesterol will shrink your brain.

Thanks for you response.

I'm eating, for the most part, whole foods with complex carbs (i.e. no refined sugars, no bread, sufficient fiber, homemade natural probiotics and prebiotics, etc. --> fresh raw green peppers, spinach, and carrots are the most glycemic foodstuff in my diet, but WHOA the vitamine C, A, and K!). My eating window is 1hr (normally around 6pm). This means that for the most part of the day I have very very low insulin. I start to feel hungry around 1pm, but that's when I hit the gym.

I always start my training with breathing exercises and light stretching. I do the Wim Hof method, which means I'm deep oxygenating and increasing the pH of my blood (alkaline). As you may or may not know, the Wim Hof breathing increases epinephrine and nor-epinephrine. This gets rid of my hunger and gives me the energy to hit the weights pretty hard. It also makes me feel GREAT. I do a bit of calisthenics, cardio, hit the cold shower (which also makes me feel great) and eat my meal.

I'm losing fat like crazy and my biceps have gone from a small little lump to something that resembles a tennis ball. This tells me that I must be doing something right? Same with my shoulders; they are hard like a rock. It could be beginners luck, but I'm certainly not losing muscle mass... Like I mentioned I think the OMAD diet coupled with whole food, lots of clean water and sleep, is recycling old proteins, breaking down useless organelles, scar tissue, improperly folded protein, etc., creating more growth hormones and testosterone, and burning fat like crazy. I also read somewhere about the efficacy of using the protein (i.e. amino acids) that is made available to the body.

The reason I eat Plant-Based? I suffer from orthorexia nervosa. I say this tongue in cheek, more or less.

I used to be close to 300 pounds, very unhealthy, and unhappy. I changed my life around in 2012 and ever since have been cleaning up my life in every possible way. I quit my dreadful job, quit smoking, quit drinking, do not use drugs or pharmaceutical (legal and illegal), grow food and medicinal herbs in a chemical-free garden, drive 50 miles to fetch clean water that bubbles from an artisan well located in a forest, wild forage edible plants and fruits when in season, never eat junk food or drink artificial beverages.

What happened when I cleaned my life up was an increasing sensibility to things that injure my body. I realized for the first time that dairy products where the cause of mucus buildup in my lungs, that refined sugars flu-like symptoms, that coffee caused inflammation, chocolate was the cause of the slight headaches I'd been having throughout the years, etc. It took me a good three years to gain sufficient will power to stop eating things that were injuring my body. It is very hard to quit bad habits -- especially when you don't know the real damage they are doing to your body. When you know and FEEL the damage it gets easier. You can only FEEL the effects when you clean up you life.

There is no going back. I feel like I'm healing in ways that are hard to describe. I'm not trying to convincing anyone to eat plant-based. To each their own. We are all different and have different needs.

I went from 300 pounds to 235 pounds when I went from a desk job to farming and gardening. But farming and gardening has done a number on my body. So I decided to up my game and lose more fat WHILE getting my body stronger. I'm also fixing some body issues and bad posture with specialized exercises.

They say that orthorexia nervosa is a mental illness. Well... Perhaps it is just trading one illness for another? My former mindset was sick and killing me, this new mindset is all about healing myself. I'm not dogmatic so I'm prepared to change whatever needs changing in my life to optimize my health. I have no problem eating fresh sardines or pasture raised eggs once in a while if my body really needs it. But, I'm not going to eat sick industrially grown Franken-cows or pigs anymore. I don't feel the need.

I want to grow old gracefully, strong and fit. I don't think it would be wise to create conditions that are unsustainable in the long-term. And for me, I just can't see myself guzzling down massive amounts of chemically-derived protein shakes, eating massive amounts of meat, eating foodstuff that cause inflammation, etc. I want be able to eat what I'm currently eating, more or less, when I'm 60, when I'm 70, when I'm 80, until I die --> even if this means I'll never look anything near Arnold Schwarzenegger.

By the way, the body can make all the cholesterol it needs from non-animal foods. Nearly a third of American adults who eat large quantities of meat and don't get enough sunlight have high cholesterol, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

I also get plenty of Omega's from hemp seeds, avocados, lentils, etc.

Since I have up dairy, cows and pigs, my metabolic endotoxemia has gone down, and this means less brain inflammation.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question?

[Farley1324]

How did you determine that dairy was causing mucus buildup in your lungs?

Coffee caused inflammation?

You're wanting to build muscle at 80g or sometimes 100g of protein a day. It's time to start eating those eggs.

Don't worry, you wont' look like Arnold Schwarzenegger because you eat meat.

Does your plant based diet mean you get more sunlight?

How are you measuring your brain inflammation?

How do you differentiate between changes from your change in job, from your change in diet, and from stopping smoking, drinking, and using legal and illegal drugs?

I used to be close to 300 pounds, very unhealthy, and unhappy. I changed my life around in 2012 and ever since have been cleaning up my life in every possible way. I quit my dreadful job, quit smoking, quit drinking, do not use drugs or pharmaceutical (legal and illegal), grow food and medicinal herbs in a chemical-free garden, drive 50 miles to fetch clean water that bubbles from an artisan well located in a forest, wild forage edible plants and fruits when in season, never eat junk food or drink artificial beverages.

[PlantBased1969]

How did you determine that dairy was causing mucus buildup in your lungs? [/B]

I had a very low dairy diet for approximately two years. Then, when I started weight training, I decided to start eating various kinds of cheeses to up my protein content (i.e. grass fed Organic for the most part). My wife warned me against, because she had noticed that every time I eat pizza (yes that is the one dairy meal I could never let go) I would start wheezing (i.e. whistling or rattling sound in the chest, as a result of obstruction in the air passages). I didn't listen to her so I eat cheese. Then the wheezing started, and it was BAD. But that's not all ---> I had flu-like symptoms (fever, pressure in the sinus, slight head and muscle aches, etc). I could not believe the cheese did this, so I did some research.

I found evidence that my sudden increase of cheese consumption had cause what is called metabolic endotoxemia. There is no way to prove or disprove this hypothesis, but it is heuristic none the less.

If you care to know more, Google metabolic endotoxemia lipopolysaccharide. It is a fascinating research field that has to do with how the body processes dead gram- bacteria in the gut, and how exessive amount of lipopolysaccharide in the blood causes inflammation and 'flu-like symptoms'. It may actually be that many people who think they have the flu are actually suffering from metabolic endotoxemia. This would be the case around Christmas time when people indulge in massive amounts of fatty-type meals coupled with gut dysbiosis, and stress, for example (i.e. the classic increase of flu cases in winter ...).

Coffee caused inflammation? [/B]

Coffee sits on the fence, for some it doesn't cause inflammation, but for others it does. I'm on the 'stay away from coffee' side. Note: Coffee also makes me sweat like crazy and makes me moody and very easily aggravated. I lose my calm real fast.

Does your plant based diet mean you get more sunlight? [/B]

Yes. But only because I grow my own food, for the most part. So I spend a lot of time outside in the garden.

How are you measuring your brain inflammation? [/B]

By monitoring headaches. Most of my headaches are directly caused by ingestion of, and poor combinations of food (e.g. tyramine, monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs), etc.

How do you differentiate between changes from your change in job, from your change in diet, and from stopping smoking, drinking, and using legal and illegal drugs?

I can't. They are linked. They are also linked to other spiritual aspects.