View Poll Results: DO YOU PLACE YOUR FAITH IN CHRIST FOR SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN?

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  • YES

    14 19.72%
  • NO

    34 47.89%
  • I ALREADY PLACED MY FAITH IN JESUS TO SAVE ME

    22 30.99%
  • OTHER

    1 1.41%
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  1. #91
    Registered User latverian41's Avatar
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    Whatever gods name is k think the bottom line is just to treat everyone else good and kind and to love everyone and in the end god will judge you properly

    No matter what his name or title is.
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  2. #92
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    Acts 10:35
    but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable to Him;
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  3. #93
    Registered User thunderykoala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    The Son of God was begotten before the heavens and the earth were created. HE incarnated as the MORTAL MAN, JESUS.

    Jesus was born of Mary but the Son of God has existed since the beginning, and was begotten by God. They are two separate beings and they are NOT both God.

    The SON of God became man, NOT the Father.
    You're sounding more like a Catholic than I am by saying that Jesus was eternally begotten of the Father. That's a core Catholic understanding. However, you can't really reconcile the idea that Jesus is the child of the Holy Spirit and claim that he is the Son of God, both as the pre-incarnated Word and as the physically born human, without also aligning the Holy Spirit with God, and the Word of God with God. Because then who would the Son of God, the incarnated Word, be the child of: God or the Holy Spirit? It's a trick question.



    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    It absolutely disproves the CATHOLIC (Not Christian) trinity.

    And there is no understanding the trinity. All trinitarians have conflicting beliefs about it and it is called an unknowable mystery. It's not a Biblical doctrine but comes from MAN. Not God.
    No part of that verse contradicts the Trinity. And you're right, you don't understand the Trinity. So there's no understanding for you to get it, since you aren't even interested in actually learning about it. Thus your ignorance when I say that the verse you put forth doesn't go against the Trinity. If you understood the Trinity, then you'd know why I said that. Also, as stated in the past plenty of times, the Trinity is interpreted from what is precisely depicted in the bible. It's like the bible: inspired by God, written and compiled by man, and even using you as an example, interpreted by man.

    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Mark 7:7
    "It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."

    Matt 16:6,12
    Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
    ....
    Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
    That still doesn't answer my question. You're making up your own interpretations of the bible, just like you're accusing Christians of other denominations of doing. Your personal and highly specific belief in the bible known only to you is technically a rule of faith in that you're using it as the sole terms that dictates who gets into heaven. If they don't follow your specific rule, they won't be saved.

    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Acts 10:35
    but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable to Him;
    Except for the Catholics and every other Christian but you.
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  4. #94
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    You're sounding more like a Catholic than I am by saying that Jesus was eternally begotten of the Father.
    Lie much? I never said "eternally begotten" I said he was begotten in the beginning. He is NOT Eternal like God. God does not HAVE A BEGINNING. "Eternally begotten" is an oxy moron.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  5. #95
    Registered User thunderykoala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Lie much? I never said "eternally begotten" I said he was begotten in the beginning. He is NOT Eternal like God. God does not HAVE A BEGINNING. "Eternally begotten" is an oxy moron.
    So your claim is that the Son of God was begotten in the beginning of creation? Is that your official stance?
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  6. #96
    ... BrosefMengele's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post

    No part of that verse contradicts the Trinity.
    Blind? The verse says the true God is the Father alone, and it is He who sent Jesus, His Son.

    Jesus is the author of the quote. He didn't teach the trinity doctrine. He taught monotheism.

    Jesus doesn't even mention god being three or the holy spirit or a trinity, ever.

    You don't actually believe WHAT Jesus said OR what God said.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-18-2018 at 01:27 PM.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  7. #97
    ... BrosefMengele's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    So your claim is that the Son of God was begotten in the beginning of creation? Is that your official stance?
    Proverbs 8:22-31
    22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

    23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

    24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

    25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

    26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

    27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

    28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

    29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

    30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

    31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

    John 17:5
    Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  8. #98
    ... BrosefMengele's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    Except for the Catholics and every other Christian but you.
    The devil deceives the WHOLE WORLD including CHRISTIANS into worshipping him.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  9. #99
    Registered User thunderykoala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Blind? The verse says the true God is the Father alone, and it is He who sent Jesus, His Son.
    That's called proof-texting and contradicts other passages of the bible where Jesus is identified as God, in line with the Father, and as the true God. And to use one of your claims where you said that "ho Theos" in Greek referred to the true God, in John 17:3 the true God is "ton alēthinon Theon," and in 1 John 5:20 where Jesus is stated to be the true God it's "ho alēthinos Theos." So I'm confused, which one is the true God? Jesus or the Father? Because if I used your action of proof-texting, I could easily ignore your passage of John 17:3 and assert that Jesus is the true God based on 1 John 5:20 (or any number of verses that say Jesus is God), just like you're ignoring other scripture to make an assertion based on a single passage. So I guess that means I'm right. Jesus is also God. Case closed.

    So again, that verse doesn't go against the Trinity.

    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    I said he was begotten in the beginning.
    It'd be a real shame for your claim if the bible mentioned that Jesus was the beginning and the end, wouldn't it? Because it would imply that the son was there before the beginning if he -was- the beginning.

    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    The devil deceives the WHOLE WORLD including CHRISTIANS into worshipping him.
    So Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the devil, according to you. And everyone except you has it wrong. Yeah, sure.
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  10. #100
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    Jesus said; “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: They will all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from Him comes to Me. No one has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father. I tell you the truth he who believes has everlasting life.” (John) 6:43-48.

    Proverbs 30:4
    4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

    John 3:13
    No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

    John 6:38
    For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.


    John 17:3
    3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    1 John 5:12; 4:9
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    Matt 7:21
    'Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.

    John 8:54
    Jesus answered, 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God;

    Jesus' Father is the God of the Jews.

    John 7:18
    He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is a man of truth; in Him there is no falsehood.

    Hebrews 5:5
    So also Christ did not take upon Himself the glory of becoming a high priest, but He was called by the One who said to Him: "You are My Son; today I have become Your Father."

    You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

    If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
    John 8:34-47

    1 John 5:20
    And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true one. We are in the true one--that is, in his Son . He is the true God and eternal life.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-18-2018 at 01:06 AM.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  11. #101
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    Originally Posted by 2minutes2 View Post
    mengele i sense ''anger'' in your picture, why?
    Maybe you are angry with me?
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  12. #102
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    So Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the devil, according to you. And everyone except you has it wrong. Yeah, sure.
    Trinitarians believe in a false Jesus and Holy Spirit. Something you aren't getting?
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  13. #103
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    John 7:14-17; 25-29; 10:22-30; 10:33-39
    14But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and began to teach. 15The Jews then were astonished, saying, “How has this man become learned, having never been educated?” 16So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17“If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.

    25So some of the people of Jerusalem were saying, “Is this not the man whom they are seeking to kill? 26“Look, He is speaking publicly, and they are saying nothing to Him. The rulers do not really know that this is the Christ, do they? 27“However, we know where this man is from; but whenever the Christ may come, no one knows where He is from.” 28Then Jesus cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, “You both know Me and know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know. 29“I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”

    22At the time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple in the porch of Solomon. 24Therefore the Jews encircled Him and were saying to Him, “Until when do You hold our soul in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

    25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in the name of My Father, these bear witness concerning Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not from among My sheep. 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28And I give them eternal life, and never shall they perish to the age, and never will anyone seize them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

    -------Trinitarians cherry pick that last verse to prove that Jesus is God. Is that what He meant? No.. He was teaching the opposite.. that he is the SON of God.------

    33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

    34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    Matthew 26:63 “And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you be the Christ, the Son of God.”

    Matthew 27:40, 43 “You that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If you be the Son of God, come down from the cross. 43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.”

    The Jews said that Jesus trusted in God, and that He claimed He was the Son of God. So did they understand Jesus as saying that He was God? Not possible. Jesus never actually taught that. Was He crucified for teaching that He is God in the flesh? Nope. It's because he claimed to be the Son of God and Messiah.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-18-2018 at 03:27 PM.
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    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Trinitarians believe in a false Jesus and Holy Spirit. Something you aren't getting?
    Incorrect. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a false Jesus. They don't believe that He is God in the flesh as the Bible says. The Holy Spirit is also God in the Spirit as the Bible says. Father-Son-Spirit, these three are one!
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Incorrect. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a false Jesus. They don't believe that He is God in the flesh as the Bible says. The Holy Spirit is also God in the Spirit as the Bible says. Father-Son-Spirit, these three are one!
    "The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of the Catholic Faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the church..." Handbook for Today's Catholic, p. 11.

    "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture. But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas, as the Trinity, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels." Graham Greene, [celebrated Catholic Author], Life Magazine, 30 Oct. 1950, p.51

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    "let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians;"
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    It'd be a real shame for your claim if the bible mentioned that Jesus was the beginning and the end, wouldn't it? Because it would imply that the son was there before the beginning if he -was- the beginning.
    God has no beginning or end. You prove yourself wrong with your own words. The Son was born, how could God have been born?
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    Jesus is also God. Case closed.
    Exodus 20:3
    "You shall have no other gods before Me."
    John 15:4
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    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Exodus 20:3
    "You shall have no other gods before Me."
    Jesus is equal with God because He IS God in the flesh:

    Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Jesus is equal with God because He IS God in the flesh:
    John 8:54
    "it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God;"

    John 14:28
    "The Father is greater than I."
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-19-2018 at 10:01 PM.
    John 15:4
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    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    God has no beginning or end. You prove yourself wrong with your own words. The Son was born, how could God have been born?
    You said that the son was begotten in the beginning. If you are the beginning, then you cannot have been begotten in the beginning. Being begotten in the beginning first requires a beginning in which to be begotten. So how can one who is the beginning be begotten in that which he already is? You speak riddles and slander!

    Being the beginning and the end entails being the creator and the one who will end it all. Only God fits that criteria, since God was the literal beginning and will be the literal end.

    "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." - Isaiah 44:6

    So I guess it's a shame for you that the literal Lord of hosts, aka God, aka Yahweh, said in the OT that he was the first and the last. Aka the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Like I mentioned Jesus having said. So you prove yourself incorrect with your own words.

    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Exodus 20:3
    "You shall have no other gods before Me."
    I agree that there is no other god besides God. Isn't it strange how we don't disagree with each other over that passage?
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    You said that the son was begotten in the beginning. If you are the beginning, then you cannot have been begotten in the beginning. Being begotten in the beginning first requires a beginning in which to be begotten. So how can one who is the beginning be begotten in that which he already is? You speak riddles and slander!

    Being the beginning and the end entails being the creator and the one who will end it all. Only God fits that criteria, since God was the literal beginning and will be the literal end.

    "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." - Isaiah 44:6

    So I guess it's a shame for you that the literal Lord of hosts, aka God, aka Yahweh, said in the OT that he was the first and the last. Aka the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Like I mentioned Jesus having said. So you prove yourself incorrect with your own words.
    Save your word games.
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Save your word games.
    Are you denying that God said those words? If so, then that's on you.
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    Are you denying that God said those words? If so, then that's on you.
    We don't even worship the same God.
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    We don't even worship the same God.
    I'm referring to the God mentioned in the bible in the OT. Are you denying that the God depicted in the OT didn't say the words that he said in the bible?
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    I'm referring to the God mentioned in the bible in the OT.
    You believe in the Roman Catholic god, not the God of the Bible (The God of the Jews).
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    ​John 14:20
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    Acts 4:24,26-27
    24And when they had heard, they raised their voice as one to God, and they said, "LORD YAHOWEH, you are God, who made the Heavens and The Earth and the seas and all that is in them."

    26"The Kings of The Earth stood up and the Rulers held counsel together against THE LORD YAHOWEH and against his Messiah."

    27For truly, Herodus and Pilatus, with the Gentiles and the mobs of Israel gathered in this city against The Holy One, your Son Yahushua, The One whom you anointed,"
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    You believe in the Roman Catholic god, not the God of the Bible (The God of the Jews).
    The Roman Catholic God is the God of the bible, confirmed by your own words:

    Me: I'm referring specifically to the words that God mentioned in the bible in the OT.

    You: That's the Roman Catholic God!

    Also you: I don't worship the same God as you do.
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    Yeah, you're the one playing word games for sure. Pure Satanic.
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Yeah, you're the one playing word games for sure. Pure Satanic.
    Yahweh's words in the OT = Satanic word games to you.
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    2 Chr 14:2-4
    2Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of Yahoweh his God: 3for he took away the foreign altars, and the high places, and broke down the pillars, and cut down the Asherim, 4and commanded Judah to seek Yahoweh, the God of their fathers, and to do the law and the commandment. 5Also he took away out of all the cities of Judah the high places and the sun images: and the kingdom was quiet before him.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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