View Poll Results: DO YOU PLACE YOUR FAITH IN CHRIST FOR SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN?

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  • YES

    14 20.00%
  • NO

    34 48.57%
  • I ALREADY PLACED MY FAITH IN JESUS TO SAVE ME

    21 30.00%
  • OTHER

    1 1.43%
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  1. #61
    I hate buffering JRMoore82's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Your verse explains it. Jesus did not "preach in hell in spirit form" when he died, that's not what the verse is saying at all if you read it carefully.

    Christ, through the The Holy spirit preached to the fallen angels (now bound in prison) in the days of Noah (through prophets as always).

    1 Peter 1:10-12
    "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
    Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
    Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

    Was through that same Spirit that he was given life (quickened) and raised from the dead. (That's what the scripture is actually saying).
    But doesn’t 1 Peter 3:18 also state he was put to death in the flesh?
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by JRMoore82 View Post
    But doesn’t 1 Peter 3:18 also state he was put to death in the flesh?
    No flesh, no living soul. (We have been over this too many times). (A soul without flesh is dead.) Giving up the ghost means you cease to live/have life.

    You don't live on in spirit form when you die. That's a pagan myth.

    Again, that doctrine (natural immortality of the human soul) comes from the RCC.
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  3. #63
    I hate buffering JRMoore82's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    (We have been over this too many times). (A soul without flesh is dead.)
    This part I agree with you.

    Alright. Have a good day.
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  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by JRMoore82 View Post
    This part I agree with you.

    Alright. Have a good day.
    There are spirits (actual demons/fallen angels), bound, in "tartarus" (Who knows how it really works), that will be unleashed one day.

    But the dead do not exist in any meaningful form. They only await resurrection, either on judgement day/Armageddon, or after the millenium right before the earth and heavens are recreated, and sin and suffering go away.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    To deny that Jesus died is the same as denying the atonement and resurrection.

    Antichrist.
    You like being dishonest now don't you? I never said that Jesus didn't die. He died PHYSICALLY, but not SPIRITUALLY. He ascended into Paradise as the Bible CLEARLY says:

    On the cross Jesus clearly told the thief next to Him that repented and turned to Him for salvation:

    Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    Jesus went to Paradise.

    What did Jesus do there? He preached to the spirits in Prison (Hell, Hades):

    1Pe 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    Sorry if your twisted Jehovah's Witness bible says otherwise, but all of the original manuscripts contradict the JW twisted translation and so do all other translations. Get a clue. That bible has been changed and is corrupt.
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  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    I never said that Jesus didn't die. He died PHYSICALLY, but not SPIRITUALLY.
    Wut.

    If he continued to live in spirit form that means he didn't die but is immortal.

    But hey, we've been over this already 1000 times. You just want me to bump your thread..
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  7. #67
    Registered User Paddington's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Wut.

    If he continued to live in spirit form that means he didn't die but is immortal.

    But hey, we've been over this already 1000 times. You just want me to bump your thread..
    Jesus is immortal. Men continue to exist also after physical death. The soul and spirit live on. Or don't you believe the Bible about this either?
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  8. #68
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    if you really think about it, many thousands of people were crucified. its not even a unique thing that jesus did.
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  9. #69
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    if you really think about it, many thousands of people were crucified. its not even a unique thing that jesus did.

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  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    To deny that Jesus died is the same as denying the atonement and resurrection.

    Antichrist.
    Only if you're christian/jewish.

    If you're Muslim, then Jesus never died and he ascended to heaven before Judas was crucified instead.

    We all know Islam is the truth, especially given that it followed Christianity so it 'completed' them with truth.
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  11. #71
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    3 Year old me: "Dad, do they have Legos in heaven?"
    My Dad: "There's no such thing as heaven or hell, son."

    Never gave it another thought.
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by Xinroth View Post
    Only if you're christian/jewish.

    If you're Muslim, then Jesus never died and he ascended to heaven before Judas was crucified instead.

    We all know Islam is the truth, especially given that it followed Christianity so it 'completed' them with truth.
    I'm not sure that's how it works. In order for Islam to be the extension of Christianity (and subsequently Judaism) that you're suggesting, it would require parallels with the bible and oral tradition (which is basically what the bible is), just like Christianity had parallels with Judaism. And Islam's conception of Jesus as not being divine or anything (alongside other factors) already violates Christian oral tradition and biblical content. So based on that premise alone we know that we're dealing with two entirely unrelated religions, let alone Islam completing Christianity.
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    I'm not sure that's how it works. In order for Islam to be the extension of Christianity (and subsequently Judaism) that you're suggesting, it would require parallels with the bible and oral tradition (which is basically what the bible is), just like Christianity had parallels with Judaism. And Islam's conception of Jesus as not being divine or anything (alongside other factors) already violates Christian oral tradition and biblical content. So based on that premise alone we know that we're dealing with two entirely unrelated religions, let alone Islam completing Christianity.
    Hypocritical.

    The Quranic Jesus, and the Trinitarian (Catholic) Jesus are both false Christs.

    The true Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and Son of the God of Israel, NOT "the Roman Catholic Trinity God in the flesh".

    It sure is funny though how in the Bible, a liar, if anyone, is the one who denies that Jesus is the Son of God, and in Islam, it is the GREATEST blasphemy and lie to say that God has a Son.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-17-2018 at 08:08 PM.
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    I never said that Jesus didn't die. He died.
    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Jesus is immortal.
    If Jesus was immortal then he couldn't have died or be resurrected, lol.

    There's no point in "debating" you, you are dishonest as hell.

    In the same breath you say that someone can both be God and the literal Son of God, at the same time, or, be one God and three at the same time, or be immortal and able to die at the same time.

    Just stop. You are a double-tongued liar just like Satan.

    Trying to argue with trinitarians is exactly like playing that three card monte game con artists play on the street where they hide the card and you can't win.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-17-2018 at 08:01 PM.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Hypocritical.

    The Quranic Jesus, and the Trinitarian (Catholic) Jesus are both false Christs.

    The true Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and Son of the God of Israel, NOT "the Roman Catholic Trinity God in the flesh".

    It sure is funny though how in the Bible, a liar, if anyone, is the one who denies that Jesus is the Son of God, and in Islam, it is the GREATEST blasphemy and lie to say that God has a Son.
    I can't think of a single Christian that doesn't think that Jesus isn't the Son of God. And no, the Trinity's understanding of Jesus isn't a false Christ. He's literally recognized as the Son of God and the Word of God incarnated. As far as I'm aware, you're one of the few Christians who doesn't actually think that's the case. And you haven't yet disproved the Trinity either.
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  16. #76
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    I can't think of a single Christian that doesn't think that Jesus isn't the Son of God.
    That is because most Christians are deceived and don't *truly* believe he is the Son of God. You just *say* that but you don't truly believe that. (That's why you're a liar) you teach doctrines of men, and all men are liars.

    And yes I have disproved it.

    John 17:3
    3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    That verse alone destroys the trinity doctrine. Jesus' own words, saying that the Father is the only true God excluding Jesus ans doesnt even mention the Holy Spirit. Checkmate.
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  17. #77
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    That is because most Christians are deceived and don't *truly* believe he is the Son of God. You just *say* that but you don't truly believe that. (That's why you're a liar) you teach doctrines of men, and all men are liars.

    And yes I have disproved it.

    John 17:3
    3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
    No, most Christians literally believe that Jesus is the son of God. You're one of the only few people who I've interacted with who claims to be Christian yet denies who Jesus is in several regards. And no, you haven't disproved anything. John 17:3 doesn't disprove the Trinity.
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  18. #78
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    No, most Christians literally believe that Jesus is the son of God.
    no

    Liar

    Most Christians are trinitarians and believe Jesus is the Lord God Almighty Himself in the flesh. Not the literal Son of God in the true sense of having been begotten.

    That is a DIFFERENT Jesus than the one from the Bible.

    Just like the Muslim Jesus, an imposter, not the literal Son of God.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    John 17:3 doesn't disprove the Trinity.
    Yes it does. It excludes Jesus making him a being other than the true God (the Father) who sent him. And doesn't even mention the Holy Spirit. What gives.

    You don't believe what God and the Son said, you don't have faith.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    no

    Liar

    Most Christians are trinitarians and believe Jesus is the Lord God Almighty Himself in the flesh. Not the literal Son of God in the true sense of having been begotten.

    That is a DIFFERENT Jesus than the one from the Bible.

    Just like the Muslim Jesus, an imposter, not the literal Son of God.
    By the standards that you set in your accusation, you too are guilty of being a liar for denying who Jesus really is, despite recognizing him as the literal son of God, like Christians do as well. Begotten basically means bringing into existence through birth, aka the son of God. And a lot of Christians recognize that Jesus is the Word of God incarnated into the flesh as well. Recognizing both of those doctrines is fundamental to Christianity. Alongside you presumably not recognizing Jesus as the Word of God incarnated, here's another biblical element that you probably don't accept:

    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." - Matthew 1:18

    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Yes it does. It excludes Jesus making him a being other than the true God (the Father) who sent him. And doesn't even mention the Holy Spirit. What gives.

    You don't believe what God and the Son said, you don't have faith.
    That verse still doesn't disprove the Trinity. If you knew what the Christian Trinity was, you'd realize why it doesn't disprove it.
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    Originally Posted by 2minutes2 View Post
    mengele just out of curiosity, what is your Christian denomination?
    None.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    None.
    So you mean to tell me that the only person who's going to be saved is the one who holds your highly specific view of Christianity, which is literally just you?
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." - Matthew 1:18
    The Son of God was begotten before the heavens and the earth were created. HE incarnated as the MORTAL MAN, JESUS.

    Jesus was born of Mary but the Son of God has existed since the beginning, and was begotten by God. They are two separate beings and they are NOT both God.

    The SON of God became man, NOT the Father.

    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    That verse still doesn't disprove the Trinity. If you knew what the Christian Trinity was, you'd realize why it doesn't disprove it.
    It absolutely disproves the CATHOLIC (Not Christian) trinity.

    And there is no understanding the trinity. All trinitarians have conflicting beliefs about it and it is called an unknowable mystery. It's not a Biblical doctrine but comes from MAN. Not God.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    So you mean to tell me that the only person who's going to be saved is the one who holds your highly specific view of Christianity, which is literally just you?
    All worldly churches are false churches. The true church is spiritual.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    All worldly churches are false churches. The true church is spiritual.
    So according to you and your highly specific view of Christianity, you're the only one who is going to get saved and go to heaven because you're the only one who believes what you specifically believe? And everyone else is condemned (by you) to eternal hellfire? Am I getting this correct?
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    So according to you and your highly specific view of Christianity, you're the only one who is going to get saved and go to heaven because you're the only one who believes what you specifically believe? And everyone else is condemned (by you) to eternal hellfire? Am I getting this correct?
    John 6:27-29
    27Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for that meat which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give to you: for him has God the Father sealed.

    28Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

    29Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.

    John 3:16
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    1 John 5:10
    If we have faith in God's Son, we have believed what God has said. But if we don't believe what God has said about his Son, it is the same as calling God a liar.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    John 6:27-29
    27Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for that meat which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give to you: for him has God the Father sealed.

    28Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

    29Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.

    John 3:16
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Citing verses doesn't actually answer my question. The majority of Christians, and even the ones who might lean more towards your specific beliefs, think differently about the particulars of Christianity than you do. So from that it's basically like you're saying that you're the only one who has the potential to get into heaven.
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    Citing verses doesn't actually answer my question. The majority of Christians, and even the ones who might lean more towards your specific beliefs, think differently about the particulars of Christianity than you do. So from that it's basically like you're saying that you're the only one who has the potential to get into heaven.
    Hebrews 11:6
    But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Hebrews 11:6
    But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    It's almost like you intend to start your own religion like Islam based off of the teachings of the Prophet Brosef. Which still means that you're the only one who would get into heaven. So what would the point of centuries of God promoting his religion, and saying hell wouldn't prevail against it, if the result is literally just you and no one else?
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    Originally Posted by thunderykoala View Post
    It's almost like you intend to start your own religion like Islam based off of the teachings of the Prophet Brosef. Which still means that you're the only one who would get into heaven. So what would the point of centuries of God promoting his religion, and saying hell wouldn't prevail against it, if the result is literally just you and no one else?
    Mark 7:7
    "It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."

    Matt 16:6,12
    Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
    ....
    Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
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