View Poll Results: DO YOU PLACE YOUR FAITH IN CHRIST FOR SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN?

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  • YES

    14 19.44%
  • NO

    35 48.61%
  • I ALREADY PLACED MY FAITH IN JESUS TO SAVE ME

    22 30.56%
  • OTHER

    1 1.39%
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  1. #31
    ... BrosefMengele's Avatar
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    28 You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

    So the two of them are not co-equal.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  2. #32
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    42 saying: Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let not my will, but yours take place (Luke 22).

    God and Jesus have two different wills.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  3. #33
    ... BrosefMengele's Avatar
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    41 Therefore they took the stone away. Now Jesus raised his eyes heavenward and said: Father, I thank you that you have heard me.
    42 True, I knew that you always hear me; but on account of the crowd standing around I spoke, in order that they might believe that you sent me forth (John 11).

    So God sent Jesus forth, and God himself remained entirely in heaven whilst Jesus was on the earth.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  4. #34
    ... BrosefMengele's Avatar
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    23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
    24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power (1 Corinthians15).

    How do you hand over something to yourself?
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  5. #35
    Registered User thunderykoala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    28 You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

    So the two of them are not co-equal.
    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    42 saying: Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let not my will, but yours take place (Luke 22).

    God and Jesus have two different wills.
    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    41 Therefore they took the stone away. Now Jesus raised his eyes heavenward and said: Father, I thank you that you have heard me.
    42 True, I knew that you always hear me; but on account of the crowd standing around I spoke, in order that they might believe that you sent me forth (John 11).

    So God sent Jesus forth, and God himself remained entirely in heaven whilst Jesus was on the earth.
    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
    24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power (1 Corinthians15).

    How do you hand over something to yourself?
    The Son saying that he's not equal to the Father =/= the Son not being referred to as God/referring to himself as God.

    Yet, as previously stated, the two are referred to as God, or identify as God. The Trinity is still the most logical perspective since it acknowledges these two aspects (the distinction and both being referred to as God). Your perspective is just an outright rejection and denial of scripture tantamount to affirming Islam and Allah.

    As far as addressing how you hand something over to yourself, how do you exist literally in everyone and have everyone literally exist in you? That implies billions of God and Jesus due to the amount of people on the planet.
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  6. #36
    Registered User Paddington's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    28 You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

    So the two of them are not co-equal.
    It just means that Jesus submits to the Father.

    Jesus IS equal with the Father:

    Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, [b]making himself equal with God.[\b]

    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
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  7. #37
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    9 You must pray, then, this way: Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified (Matthew 6).

    Jesus himself was entirely on earth and God was entirely in heaven when he said this!

    46 About the 9th hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27).

    Jesus was not talking to Himself here but to God, His Father; The Father is God of the son. The son is not God of the father.

    16 The one alone having immortality [aqanasian], dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one of men has seen, nor is able to see (1 Timothy 6).

    Aqanasian means 'without death'.

    So God has not, cannot and will never die. Whereas of course Jesus has died. Thus, Jesus is not God.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  8. #38
    Registered User Paddington's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    9 You must pray, then, this way: Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified (Matthew 6).

    Jesus himself was entirely on earth and God was entirely in heaven when he said this!

    46 About the 9th hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27).

    Jesus was not talking to Himself here but to God, His Father; The Father is God of the son. The son is not God of the father.

    16 The one alone having immortality [aqanasian], dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one of men has seen, nor is able to see (1 Timothy 6).

    Aqanasian means 'without death'.

    So God has not, cannot and will never die. Whereas of course Jesus has died. Thus, Jesus is not God.
    The Lord Jesus was talking to the God the Father. They are both God.

    You see The Lord Jesus speaking unto God the Father in Psalms and re iterated in Matthew

    Ps 110:1 ¶ <<A Psalm of David.>> The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    Mt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    They are both God.
    Liar!

    1 John 5:10,1; 1:3; 5:12; 4:9
    10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
    Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him.
    3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-06-2018 at 11:21 PM.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
    Reply With Quote

  10. #40
    Registered User Paddington's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    Liar!

    1 John 5:10,1; 1:3; 5:12; 4:9
    10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
    Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him.
    3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
    Why don't you believe what the Bible actually says?
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  11. #41
    Registered User Paddington's Avatar
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    PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES.

    ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

    There are some things that you should know:

    1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

    Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

    Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

    It all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

    2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

    Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

    Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won’t have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you. But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell.

    3. If you will confess Jesus Christ is the Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died and rose again for your sins, you will be saved (from hell).

    Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

    Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

    You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through trusting in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you in faith.

    Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? ARE YOU WILLING TO PLACE YOUR FAITH IN HIM FOR SALVATION?

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

    4. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, you could place your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation by praying a simple prayer:

    ”Dear Lord Jesus I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I repent and turn to You, placing my Faith in You as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen.”

    If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.
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  12. #42
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    Notice that BrosefMengele calls me a liar, but can't refute any of the verses I listed.
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  13. #43
    The Gh0st Nelly87's Avatar
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    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Notice that BrosefMengele calls me a liar, but can't refute any of the verses I listed.
    You don't even worship the God of the Bible, lol. You worship the Catholic god..

    You also teach catholic doctrines like hell fire and immortality of the human soul, futurism (pre-tribulation rapture theory)... all false doctrines.... you are vile.. modern day indulgence salesman.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-08-2018 at 04:37 PM.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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  15. #45
    Registered User Paddington's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    You don't even worship the God of the Bible, lol. You worship the Catholic god..

    You also teach catholic doctrines like hell fire and immortality of the human soul, futurism (pre-tribulation rapture theory)... all false doctrines.... you are vile.. modern day indulgence salesman.
    As I have said before, I am not anywhere close to being Catholic, but YOU believe just like the Jehovah's Witness Cult. It is YOU who doesn't believe the Bible. Hell is in the Bible and immortality of the human soul is in the Bible. Pre Trib is biblical. You are a in need of Jesus Christ to save you from your sins. You need the REAL Jesus to help you see for you are blind.
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    As I have said before, I am not anywhere close to being Catholic, but YOU believe just like the Jehovah's Witness Cult. It is YOU who doesn't believe the Bible. Hell is in the Bible and immortality of the human soul is in the Bible. Pre Trib is biblical. You are a in need of Jesus Christ to save you from your sins. You need the REAL Jesus to help you see for you are blind.
    You are blind, no scriptural rebuttals could hope to save you.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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    Jesus answered, "No one comes to the Father if not by me."
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    You are blind, no scriptural rebuttals could hope to save you.
    Because YOU don't believe what the Bible says. I will trust in the word of God. You trust in your false religion.
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Because YOU don't believe what the Bible says. I will trust in the word of God. You trust in your false religion.
    Whatever, dude; keep projecting.
    John 15:4
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    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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    I will keep proclaiming the truth of God's word.
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    Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    God can't die.
    John 15:4
    "Live in me. Make your home in me just as I do in you."
    ​John 14:20
    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.​​​​​​"
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    i dont believe in heaven or hell so negative
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    God can't die.
    His flesh died because He allowed it to. God can do anything He wants to do. Jesus (God in the flesh) didn't die until He commended His Spirit:

    Lu 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    His flesh died because He allowed it to.
    No, Jesus HIMSELF fully died and ceased to exist and then was resurrected by God (the Father), and God can't die, the Father is immortal.

    Jesus gave up the ghost. He died. He didn't "live on as a ghost"....

    So Jesus isn't God. Stop misleading people.
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-15-2018 at 08:52 PM.
    John 15:4
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    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    No, Jesus HIMSELF fully died and ceased to exist and then was resurrected by God (the Father), and God can't die, the Father is immortal.

    Jesus gave up the ghost. He died. He didn't "live on as a ghost"....

    So Jesus isn't God. Stop misleading people.
    Jesus never ceased to exist. He went to paradise and preached to the spirits in hades (hell) which is a prison for the unsaved. Jesus redurrected in His physical body.
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Jesus never ceased to exist. He went to paradise and preached to the spirits in hades (hell) which is a prison for the unsaved. Jesus redurrected in His physical body.
    To deny that Jesus died is the same as denying the atonement and resurrection.

    Antichrist.
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    To deny that Jesus died is the same as denying the atonement and resurrection.

    Antichrist.
    Ok I’ll bite.

    “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
    ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/1pe.3.18-20.kjv
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    Originally Posted by JRMoore82 View Post
    Ok I’ll bite.

    “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
    ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/1pe.3.18-20.kjv
    Your verse explains it. Jesus did not "preach in hell in spirit form" when he died, that's not what the verse is saying at all if you read it carefully.

    Christ, through the The Holy spirit preached to the fallen angels (now bound in prison) in the days of Noah (through prophets as always).

    1 Peter 1:10-12
    "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
    Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
    Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

    Was through that same Spirit that he was given life (quickened) and raised from the dead. (That's what the scripture is actually saying).
    Last edited by BrosefMengele; 10-15-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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    ​John 14:20
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    Originally Posted by BrosefMengele View Post
    28 You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

    So the two of them are not co-equal.
    +
    So the trinity is wrong because co-equalness is the central pillar of trinitarianism.
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