Do we really need to to be "In" Ketosis to see the fat burning benefits? (Long post)

[66rogue66]

Nice back paddle. Eating mostly minimally processed foods doesn't mean you have to avoid carbs.

The discussion is specifically about "ketosis". Ketosis requires a low carb/no carb diet.

[66rogue66]

How you choose to get there is up to you.

That's for damn sure

[desslok]

It's real simple - eat real food. Meat, eggs, green veggies and healthy fats. What humans were meant to eat.

I like how you personally decided that humans weren’t meant to eat fruits, potatoes, nuts, seeds, and the plethora of other naturally occuring foods containing carbs that humans and our ancestors with half a brain would have eaten.

[Mrpb]

Ketosis requires a low carb/no carb diet.

Of course but your comment made no sense. You can be in ketosis on a crappy diet of highly processed Atkins products and highly processed oils with trans fats.

A keto or low carb diet can easily lack fiber, vitamins and minerals.

Ketosis doesn't automatically make a diet healthy.

Neither does high carb/low fat make a diet unhealthy.

[66rogue66]

I have mistakenly stepped into a conversation with apparently some of the greatest minds in nutrition science. Surely you all have world class physiques based on this knowledge. You all must look like Greek gods! Kudos

I will exit, post haste, and leave you to your wonderment. Good day

[Tommy W.]

The discussion is specifically about "ketosis". Ketosis requires a low carb/no carb diet.

You'll find that KETO diet posts don't get much love especially when there are quotes like "This is how were were meant to eat" etc.

Ketosis.....
Most people doing KETO think that it allows some sort of backdoor access to stored fat.

[Ghawk21]

Try to be nice and give someone some information and they get butt hurt and leave...must be the lack of carbs

[Mrpb]

I have mistakenly stepped into a conversation with apparently some of the greatest minds in nutrition science.

You'd benefit from reading some more objective information:

Low-fat vs low-carb? Major study concludes: it doesn’t matter for weight loss
https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fa...r-weight-loss/

[becausetacos]

Umm it might be helpful for you to acquire at least a rudimentary level of knowledge about history as well as nutrition.
Even if it was wise to base a modern healthy diet on that of people who lived to the rip old age of 35ish your argument still doesn’t make sense. Humans have not been eating keto for “millions of years” for the simple fact that humans haven’t even been around for millions of years. Prehistoric man started eating a gruel of water and crushed grain- the precursor to bread which has been consumed since before biblical times.
Great job on your weight loss. You of course accomplished this by being in a calorie deficit- not by eating like a caveman.

[WolfRose7]

Umm it might be helpful for you to acquire at least a rudimentary level of knowledge about history as well as nutrition.
Even if it was wise to base a modern healthy diet on that of people who lived to the rip old age of 35ish your argument still doesn’t make sense. Humans have not been eating keto for “millions of years” for the simple fact that humans haven’t even been around for millions of years. Prehistoric man started eating a gruel of water and crushed grain- the precursor to bread which has been consumed since before biblical times.
Great job on your weight loss. You of course accomplished this by being in a calorie deficit- not by eating like a caveman.

Don't ruin the poor guys keto-paleo religion with common sense man!!!!

[Charlie Murphy]

There is very minimal net calorie burning benefit from being in a ketogenic diet. I can link the Hall metabolic ward study that helps show this when I get back to a computer. Some people experience a hunger suppressing benefit, which has been demonstrated in the literature. Some people claim better mental clarity/focus/etc while on it; to my knowledge there are no studies that examine this. It is quite helpful for epilepsy in some situations. It can be quite helpful for people with insulin resistance. Otherwise, there are no significant benefits off the top of my head.

And even if there were slight benefits OP, none of it would mean jack if YOU couldn't stick to the plan.

[Charlie Murphy]

Humans followed a "keto" diet for millions of years. Humans were not fat until just recently in human history, driven by the increase in cheap carbs.

I have lost 40+ pounds on a high fat, low carb, moderate protein diet. Being in "Ketosis" does not matter to me. As long as I stay away from carbs I get leaner.

I have also studied the diet extensively and I am convinced this is the way we should eat, for fat loss as well as overall health. We have been misinformed for decades about saturated fat and and the food industry has pushed the corn oils and high fructose corn syrup. Diabetes and other health problems have skyrocketed since the seventies, when we were told to go "low fat".

It's real simple - eat real food. Meat, eggs, green veggies and healthy fats. What humans were meant to eat.

"That's cute, brah"-Asians

[Charlie Murphy]

There is no much wrong with this post I wouldn't know where to begin...

But sure... carbs are evil bandwagon blah blah.
Just like sugar was, red meat was, fat was, protein will probably be evil in 10 years once the new fat replaces keto

I know man. Just look at all those fat asians who live off rice.

[Charlie Murphy]

Yes, eating real, whole foods as nature intended is a terrible concept. Keep believing the AHA....

Geez, does everyone have to be such a ****ing prick about it?

I guess I just imagined this bowl of white rice

[Charlie Murphy]

You'll find that KETO diet posts don't get much love especially when there are quotes like "This is how were were meant to eat" etc.

Ketosis.....
Most people doing KETO think that it allows some sort of backdoor access to stored fat.

I'd love any diet that allowed me "backdoor access"

Nomysayin?

[IH8RICE]

You made the claim, it's your job to prove it.

I'm using basic logic for one, and recollection of studies I formerly read as another.

However, I don't need to post studies to prove something one could extrapolate from existing knowledge... like, the fundamentals of thermodynamics in humans.

Also, as a sidenote, try to hone your understanding of what 'burning more fat' really means in this context.

While you're in KETO, yes, you're 'burning more fat'... but guess what: you're also EATING more fat...

Conversely, if I ate less fat and more carbs... guess what happens? I BURN MORE CARBS...

It all ends up back at the same place: energy balance....

However, as I said, eating MORE fat given matched calories will actually be less optimal for metabolism because fat is the least thermogenic of any macros... protein takes more energy to 'store' than carbs, carbs take more than fat, and fat is VERY easily converted into bodyfat.

So, overall, a lower fat, hypocaloric diet which is also high in protein and utilizes carbs to fuel additional performance needs is going to be the best bet for most people UNLESS a specific diet somehow helps an individual adhere to a larger calorie deficit.

So what if you intake low fats and carbs but maintain a solid protein intake via psmf?

[Tommy W.]

I'd love any diet that allowed me "backdoor access"

Nomysayin?

I don't think that's a diet issue