*** Official Tennis Thread Pt. 2****

[iabs]

That's workplace violence/ insubordination, no?

[Dominik]

Federer obviously gearing up to replace Borg as Team Europe coach in retirement.

First he coached Zverev in German. https://twitter.com/LaverCup/status/1043995645714018304

Later in the match...

https://twitter.com/LaverCup/status/1044005394912346114

You can return from where Bjorn said or you can find your return position.

But once the rally gets going, you have to remind yourself to keep your position or move forward. Stop moving back and back and back.

That's why he's able to get all these volleys because he has too much time, he gets a metre or two closer to the net.

He gets a split second more time to get his legs in position or to run around, all this stuff.

If you get closer to the baseline he won't have that time. That's my opinion.

You slice and you come back so just stay in that position. Then you can also see the short balls.

Back there you don't have any short balls anymore so it's hard to stay offensive.

Zverev's face doesn't move as if he's humiliated Federer is publicly coaching him. Even Djokovic nodded to show he was listening despite not needing any advice. When you haven't been past the QF of a slam and the guy talking to you has won 20 you'd have to be a total moron not to appreciate any advice he gives you.

Rafa coached Federer last year.

[iabs]

What a little punk this Zverev kid is. I know you're focused in the moment, but at least acknowledge Fed when he's speaking to you.

Do you guys think it's a generation issue?

The entitlement and condescending mentality when addressing your seniors?

[ohiostate124]

I definitely think Zverev is an arrogant little **** but not acknowledging the coach seems relative common. I’m basing this on the women since they can receive coaching but a lot of them just sit there like a statue. Halep does it to Cahill.

[iabs]

Are we comparing hormonal divas to rational (I hope) men?

ayyyy.

[ohiostate124]

Are we comparing hormonal divas to rational (I hope) men?

ayyyy.

Zverev fits more into the hormonal diva category.

[Dominik]

Wrapping up Laver Cup while it seemed awkward at first if their wives are posing for selfies I don't think these guys hate each other.

Next stop: Nole's family bbq.

[nvrstopworking]

World actually did alright for themselves in the end. Isner and Anderson were solid. Too bad Delpo had to miss it.

[Dominik]

Highlight for me was seeing Kyrgios flogged again. Roger requested to play him so no chance of any exo acting there. Lined him up and spat him out.

Read Nick's serve like Roddick's putting most back into play and deep. Kyrgios without a decent return game of his own is reduced to a sitting duck. His only chance is getting to a tiebreak and rolling the dice on 2nd serves. Federer was having none of that.

[Trudope]

Zverev is such a little chit. Guy is so arrogant when he actually hasn't done anything except win a few masters and crash out early in ever GS he plays.



Kygrios is an embarrassment and should retire.

[iabs]

Zverev is such a little chit. Guy is so arrogant when he actually hasn't done anything except win a few masters and crash out early in ever GS he plays.



Kygrios is an embarrassment and should retire.

Co-signed.

[oe7Leo]

Kyrgios, Kokkanakis, Tomic, all duds. What a wasted generation.

At least De Minaur shows some promise, and might be able to restore some dignity for you aussies

[Dominik]

Kyrgios, Kokkanakis, Tomic, all duds. What a wasted generation.

At least De Minaur shows some promise, and might be able to restore some dignity for you aussies

No surprise Lleyton Hewitt is working with him. He wouldn't waste his time with a quitter.

Interesting to hear how he spent the last 4 years in Spain training on clay. Rafa is the benchmark so clay is the ideal surface to work on constructing a point and being patient and disciplined. Hewitt spent a lot of time around John Newcombe, Tony Roche, and Patrick Rafter so it's nice to see he's giving back to younger players.

[nvrstopworking]

Kyrgios, Kokkanakis, Tomic, all duds. What a wasted generation.

At least De Minaur shows some promise, and might be able to restore some dignity for you aussies

Kyrgios still has too much raw talent and too many wins over top players to truly be a dud. He’s still only what... 23? The way he’s going though he could just be another Monfils.... more concerned with playing trick shots and enjoying being on the tour rather than actually winning tourneys.

[Dominik]

Kyrgios still has too much raw talent and too many wins over top players to truly be a dud. He’s still only what... 23?

The problem is coaches are working overtime developing game plans to beat players and his game hasn't really evolved which makes their job easier. Federer's obviously worked him out. Nadal thrashed him in their last meeting. Novak is in better shape than when they met 18 months ago.

He's at the crossroads right now. The only thing keeping him in the Top 40 are his Beijing final points which drop off next week. Coachless. Coaches who were interested a couple of years ago when he was Top 15 wouldn't be as keen today. Monfils at 21 reached a slam SF. Kyrgios last reached a QF over 3 years ago. He's going backwards.



I know it's unfair but compare the trajectory with Novak's career when he was Nick's age going into 2011. Won a slam at 20, a final, 6 semis, won Masters titles... and we know what happened next. Would be even more brutal if you compared him to Nadal at 23.

[nvrstopworking]

Oh to be sure I wouldn’t ever put him in the category of a Rafa or Novak... but I figured he could be a Delpo (top 10 player and a serious threat on any fast surface) if he actually gave a fuk.

[Dominik]

Oh to be sure I wouldn’t ever put him in the category of a Rafa or Novak... but I figured he could be a Delpo (top 10 player and a serious threat on any fast surface) if he actually gave a fuk.

After winning Brisbane and going into the 4th round against Dimitrov with his AO draw wide open (Edmund QF > Cilic SF), ranked #14, seemed like Top 10 was on the cards. It all fell apart from there.

A couple of weeks from now when his Beijing final points come off he'll fall out of the Top 40 if he doesn't show up to defend them.

[Trudope]

Oh to be sure I wouldn’t ever put him in the category of a Rafa or Novak... but I figured he could be a Delpo (top 10 player and a serious threat on any fast surface) if he actually gave a fuk.

Lmao he isn't even close to Delpo. Delpo would been a multiple slam winner if it wasn't for injuries.

[nvrstopworking]

Lmao he isn't even close to Delpo. Delpo would been a multiple slam winner if it wasn't for injuries.

That’s why I said COULD BE ... and not IS.

[Dominik]

Biggest issue for him right now is the poor ROS.

He averages almost 20 aces a match just behind Isner and Karlovic so his serve and slapping low % trick shots is what's keeping him competitive. Throw in the attitude and he'd be a nightmare for a coach.

Look at his return % on 1st serves. He's down there with the elite servebots. Federer showed when he's serving well and getting a good % in he can turn Kyrgios into bystander since he's comfortable returning big serves.

[nvrstopworking]

Interesting... had no idea Schwartzmann was such a monster returner.

[Trudope]

Nadal with the highest return rating

[Dominik]

Nadal with the highest return rating

He gets a higher % back into play because of his defensive return position. He's not often standing right on the baseline looking to rip a return winner. If he had a better serve he could be more aggressive on return games. I'd like to see him do more of this. Very impressive.

[Dominik]

Federer's ROS is the most underrated. He pretty much wrecked Roddick's career with that block return. 140mph serve from Roddick here on a fast US Open court...



Time to bring back the sneak attack return.

[ohiostate124]

Nadal with the highest return rating

[iabs]

and?

[Dominik]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Lmtryur.png[img]

There were a few times where he almost completely disappeared. The camera operator was using weird angles to keep him in the frame.



Thiem used the same trick on him this year and got the same result.



Nadal's tactic is pure comedy but it's Kev's fault for being too one dimensional. He's 6'8". FFS slice it out wide.

[Dominik]

Jump to a minute in. Textbook Nadal. Thiem straight up ripped the tactic and got the same result. It's pretty funny.

Here you go.



7-5 6-2 7-6

[Trudope]

Federer's ROS is the most underrated. He pretty much wrecked Roddick's career with that block return. 140mph serve from Roddick here on a fast US Open court...

Federer is very good at blocking the ball back so he is very good vs big servers but he uses the same tactic against regular servers as well and isn't aggressive enough (i.e. when he plays Nadal). He started being more aggressive on his return in 2017 but it seems like he's reverted back to his usual routine this year.
He also isn't aggressive enough/chokes on his returns during break point chances which is part of the reason his BP conversion is so low.

[Dominik]

Federer is very good at blocking the ball back so he is very good vs big servers but he uses the same tactic against regular servers as well and isn't aggressive enough (i.e. when he plays Nadal). He started being more aggressive on his return in 2017 but it seems like he's reverted back to his usual routine this year.
He also isn't aggressive enough/chokes on his returns during break point chances which is part of the reason his BP conversion is so low.

No argument there. No one squanders BPs like Federer. A few finals that come to mind...

2006 Monte Carlo final 4/18
2007 RG final 1/17
2008 Wimbledon final 1/13
2009 US Open final 5/22
2015 Wimbledon final 1/7
2015 US Open final 4/23

A couple more breaks in 2007 and 2008 and he probably takes those and Nadal doesn't get on a roll against him. 2015 US Open was an epic fail with 4/23. He should not have lost that match.

Of course at the time it's tough to take those losses but looking back it's boring if one player is winning everything. I'm at peace with how it's all panned out.