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  1. #91
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    Originally Posted by NillaWafer View Post
    When Bracket calls everyone who wants to play vanilla an 'FA trying to cope with life', it sounds like he wants Vanilla to fail. I don't think you'd say that if you want the game to succeed, but maybe I'm wrong.

    But I'm not sure what misinformation is being spread? What Purfected has said about current retail isn't necessarily wrong. Grouping has been trivialized in Retail by things like LFR/LFD as well as by Blizzard's own sharding system which allows players to just show up at a 'group' quest and complete it. And in those cases that you do need to find a group, Blizzard allows you to just drop into a queue and play with five or however many others who you likely will never see again once the quest is complete.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to build a community in retail. I'm sure there are a lot of successful guilds and communities that are great. It's just that the game itself doesn't allow players to build those communities in the way that it used to.

    As for this mythic argument, we're comparing mechanics from games that are almost 15 years apart. I'm sure the Legion raid mechanics are a lot more complex and intricate than anything that even existed in vanilla, and I'm sure a lot of players find beating those mythic raids and challenges to be incredibly rewarding and fun. That doesn't mean there's no appeal to Vanilla raiding and that it's objectively bad because the mechanics are simpler. Those are subjective tastes that some players like and others don't.

    The same can be said of the classes. Some players like the homogenization of classes in Retail, where every dps, heal, or tank spec is relatively the same, but others like the niche aspects of Vanilla classes. It doesn't mean one is objectively worse or better than the other. It's just subjective taste, yet a lot of this subjectiveness is being passed as truth and evidence of superiority by one side or the other.

    edit: didn't mean to write a novel, just kind of happened lul.
    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    All good points. Personally I don't see why it has to be black and white. The perfect WoW would be one that continues to evolve raid mechanics and balance while also keeping RPG elements of the game.

    Porting everywhere, queuing up, stomping anything outside of mythic and getting showered with random loot isn't very RPG - and those are some of my biggest complaints with retail.
    I'll keep these comments together, as they both touch on the same thing.

    I will address it immediately - calling people who like Vanilla "FA who cope with life" is incorrect. That was targeted directly at Purfected after he immediately insults me about my reading comprehension because I didn't agree with him. So far, you and Cali have both provided enough of a discussion as to why you love Vanilla. If you re-read this thread, you will see the way you and Cali argue your points, and the way Purfected argues his - then you will understand where I'm coming from.

    I loved Vanilla. It was a great game. I'm not disputing that. Please read my comments about it again if you must.

    I look forward to Classic servers when they come. However, I have a feeling this will be much later because WoW is heading in the right direction. This is where the discussion is going, but it turned to me and .aeterna hating Classic, which isn't the case.

    The sharding concept has become an issue for a lot of people. I understand that it feels weird that you're no longer playing on one realm, but a collection of realms. But as a business, how do you address the lower populated servers? Way back, Blizzard discussed on their servers that they would have wanted to test the merging of servers - basically attach two of them together. But then that draws a few questions:
    1) Who maintains the characters name, or guild name?
    2) Will there be a fair balance of H/A population (should be easy for them to pull stats on this)
    3) What will the server name be called? People really enjoyed the realm they played on and it felt like "home" to them.

    Blizzard did "sharding" because these lower populated realms were getting affected, and they weren't filling up. Their way of trying to help was free character transfers, which only handful of people moved. People would say things like "new players should roll on low pop realms" or "my realm is full, don't roll here". But the problem was how established a server was. Players didn't want to play with nobody on the game, which would prompt them to quit.

    Blizzard also made LFD for the convenience of finding groups. They didn't want players to sit there and spam /2 for groups all the time, or spam their guild for members. How does a new player find a group if they only have 1 hour to play? It may take you 2-3 hours - start to finish - to finding a group, getting to the dungeon, and completing the dungeon. A newer player may not have the commitment and will potentially quit.

    I understand where you're coming from with the "you don't meet the players anymore", which is unfortunate. But it's worse for Blizzard to lose paying customers because they cannot find groups, period.

    LFR was made because people weren't getting to see the content of the game. Basically in Vanilla you had to gear up just to get to MC. You weren't allowed to walk in with greens unless your guild allowed that. Even if they did, you had to follow their schedule. Blizzard created a system that allows casuals to see content in all of what it is, but then also got a few gear pieces as well. LFR even helps low geared people start preparing for higher content as well.

    The only thing that confuses me is why LFR affects so many players personally? I use LFR to help gear my characters, and then I usually move to Normal/Heroic content. I'm happy with Heroic raids as the content is difficult enough that I can enjoy, but not difficult enough where I need to coordinate and research fights. I usually will do Mythics raids when I'm overgeared. In Legion, I only did Emerald Nightmare (first raid) after we were preparing for BfA, and that's only because most groups were running that due to gear.

    I also dislike the homogenization of our classes. I preferred playing Priest even in MoP than I do now. But the only reason they had to do this was so that groups aren't forced to bring a class, but can bring the player instead. I remember doing Naxx in Wrath, and was needed because I can MC one of the fights. However, if I had to leave for any reason, they needed another priest. Blizzard wanted to go away from that.

    The one thing I will agree with that put Vanilla, BC, and Wrath (at the start) in a separate category was the community you had to build on a realm. The leveling, groups, and raids definitely made people more connected. It was slightly more forced because you needed it (this would be no different than being asked to a team lunch at work), but it helps create those bonds. As a business, Blizzard needed to protect their larger playerbase - the casuals.

    You did address excellent points though.

    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    Casuals are the backbone of the game, so if they're in queues, in the sky, or class halls, they're not socializing in the game world, forming groups manually, questing and traveling together - and the culture of the game takes a nose dive.

    I'm a dead on casual and can still see that faceroll queue up content is detrimental to the game because it decreases motivation for anyone not progression raiding. You can check my armory, not a single boss killed outside of LFR. It's trash man.

    Convenience has taken precedence over everything in this game and it's worse for it.
    If you want more of a challenge, why not leave LFR and do Normal/Heroic, or even Mythic? It sounds like you're happy to just see content, but felt it was too easy and wish it were harder. LFR wasn't intended to gear and be done with the game, but just a mere stepping stone. That's how raiding works.

    If convenience wasn't good for the game, then they wouldn't have done it, and this game would be back to it's roots that was Vanilla/BC. As .aeterna said, MMO's aren't the "in game" anymore. It was back then, and MOBA's were also the big feature, but now it moved to FPS battle-royale. People who enjoy MMO's are the one's that want to play open-world, but have more convenience.

    We also have to note, that Vanilla was almost 14 years ago. At that point, some of us were in High school, if not College. In that regard, your life was a lot more different. If the average gamer is nearly 30 (in general, not just WoW), then they need to cater to their lifestyle.

    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    maybe it's a concern for people because they are reasons for why they think the game sucks for them now?

    by the way, WoW has been dieing ever since they started casualizing the game


    by the way the most fun I had during WoW was in TBC when I was a casual. making a game casual friendly doesn't mean the game becomes more fun automatically.
    They didn't make the game easier because it was hard, they made it more convenient for people to play.
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  2. #92
    Taiwan waisoserious's Avatar
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    The game got old. Plain and simple. Remaking Classic wow wont be a success. Think about it:

    - The game was fundamentally broken in several ways all the way up to WOTLK and was needlessly complicateed. Talents that added 1% crit, or reduced 1% threat.
    - Weapons Skill was completely fking useless pointless and served no point other than to antagonize you, literally
    - Raid mechanics were limited back then. Bosses were very simple mechanically. They only felt difficult cause of resource management (mana), threat mangement, debuff limits on bosses, and everybody straightup sucking because nobody knew how to play back then
    - And also....the bosses will ALREADY BE ON FARM. Everybody already knows the mechanics.

    - Classes didnt work like they were supposed to and many classes just straight up werent viable.
    - Loot was bad only a few pcs of loot per 40man raid

    - Mechanics were super broken. No Diminishing returns on CCs.

    - Guilds are gonna be a mess....EVERYBODY is gonna want Ateish or Scarab Lord

    I predict Classic wow will only release 3-4 Servers and after 2 years Blizzard will probably merge all 4 of them and add LFR into that.

    And think of all the upkeep Classic wow will need. People complaing on forums to make such and such changes that werent in the original but they want it anyways because they are used to flying mounts or whatever da fuq since they are used to playing WOTLK onwards. Honestly I feel sorry for Blizzard. After 1.5 years people are gonna be asking for a BC server and then a WOTLK server


    Edit:

    Blizzard really should have let wow die after WOTLK. They are running out of story lines. Nobody cared about deathwing....seriously...Nobody cared about Pandas or the Zandalar even though they were already in the game and they certainly did not deserve their own expansion. Draenor....seriously wtf?.....Legion should have been the expansion to follow WOTLK and perhaps followed up by BFA....Cataclysm and MOP were fun though, they were legit fun. But Blizzard should have put that time and effort into making D3 not suck or making a Diablo MMO. The story lines after WOTLK were just stupid.....Why do I need to kill Ragnaros twice?!?!

    Storywise Deathwing is like Han Solo. Yea hes significant but did he really need his own movie? lmao
    Last edited by waisoserious; 08-10-2018 at 07:34 AM.
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  3. #93
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    what are the current free/private servers that offer vanilla ? (or even the exansions).

    for me it's not even about classic vs current. I just hate paying a subscription fee when I only want to play once every week or two to dick around. once you subscribe you almost feel like you got to play consistently or it's a waste.
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  4. #94
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    Originally Posted by realmerican View Post
    what are the current free/private servers that offer vanilla ? (or even the exansions).

    for me it's not even about classic vs current. I just hate paying a subscription fee when I only want to play once every week or two to dick around. once you subscribe you almost feel like you got to play consistently or it's a waste.
    Nice try Blizzard
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  5. #95
    Forever College Student CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    I'll keep these comments together, as they both touch on the same thing.

    Blizzard also made LFD for the convenience of finding groups. They didn't want players to sit there and spam /2 for groups all the time, or spam their guild for members. How does a new player find a group if they only have 1 hour to play? It may take you 2-3 hours - start to finish - to finding a group, getting to the dungeon, and completing the dungeon. A newer player may not have the commitment and will potentially quit.

    I understand where you're coming from with the "you don't meet the players anymore", which is unfortunate. But it's worse for Blizzard to lose paying customers because they cannot find groups, period.

    LFR was made because people weren't getting to see the content of the game. Basically in Vanilla you had to gear up just to get to MC. You weren't allowed to walk in with greens unless your guild allowed that. Even if they did, you had to follow their schedule. Blizzard created a system that allows casuals to see content in all of what it is, but then also got a few gear pieces as well. LFR even helps low geared people start preparing for higher content as well.

    The only thing that confuses me is why LFR affects so many players personally? I use LFR to help gear my characters, and then I usually move to Normal/Heroic content. I'm happy with Heroic raids as the content is difficult enough that I can enjoy, but not difficult enough where I need to coordinate and research fights. I usually will do Mythics raids when I'm overgeared. In Legion, I only did Emerald Nightmare (first raid) after we were preparing for BfA, and that's only because most groups were running that due to gear.
    It's inarguably more convenient. The point is: convenience by itself doesn't facilitate a good game. Too much convenience kills vital processes in an MMO like working harder for your gear, building teams to clear content, and growing in strength before seeing end game content. So that when you get there..you actually give a chit and are challenged, and aren't just facerolling through it.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    If you want more of a challenge, why not leave LFR and do Normal/Heroic, or even Mythic? It sounds like you're happy to just see content, but felt it was too easy and wish it were harder. LFR wasn't intended to gear and be done with the game, but just a mere stepping stone. That's how raiding works.
    It sounds like I'm happy? lol. To answer your question though, lack of time + desire is why I don't do normal or harder. Nowadays I only have an hour or two to play and I'd rather just PVP with that time.

    The fact I didn't go 13/13 on HFC says it all really, as a WC3 fan who adored the Burning Legion story and should want to see Archimonde. The experience is just way too fuking boring.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    If convenience wasn't good for the game, then they wouldn't have done it, and this game would be back to it's roots that was Vanilla/BC. As .aeterna said, MMO's aren't the "in game" anymore. It was back then, and MOBA's were also the big feature, but now it moved to FPS battle-royale. People who enjoy MMO's are the one's that want to play open-world, but have more convenience.
    I don't believe that at all, they can't revert because players lash out. My theory is that they folded to the player base. I recall reading posts from 10+ years ago about adding group queues to the game. I also remember the screeching of uber casuals complaining that LFR is important because "I paid the same price for the game as heroic raiders, I DESERVE to see that content!!" If you know anything about the majority of wow players - they are typically short-sighted and have no clue what's good for them. It isn't until they hit the slightest inconvenience that they start complaining for changes.

    So you can say that some players will quit because they have to talk in /2, but the game exploded under that design. Plus, myself and MANY others quit because we despised the current state of the game. So in essence they just reacquired a new player base while flipping the bird to the old player base.
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  6. #96
    Forever College Student CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Just checked my armory. The last heroic and mythic raid I did was Siege of Orgimmar, which was like 5 years ago.



    Those difficulty levels are great to have in the game and very rewarding, but having LFR as an outlet for so many players is less beneficial than shifting them into the normal and up pool, where content isn't as trivial and you're not being carried by 5 heroic raiders that want to demolish a Skada meter.

    Several youtubers have done experiments where they literally do nothing in an LFR and don't get kicked. It's 100% tourist mode and that's not what an RPG should be about.
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  7. #97
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .aeterna's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    Just checked my armory. The last heroic and mythic raid I did was Siege of Orgimmar, which was like 5 years ago.



    Those difficulty levels are great to have in the game and very rewarding, but having LFR as an outlet for so many players is less beneficial than shifting them into the normal and up pool, where content isn't as trivial and you're not being carried by 5 heroic raiders that want to demolish a Skada meter.

    Several youtubers have done experiments where they literally do nothing in an LFR and don't get kicked. It's 100% tourist mode and that's not what an RPG should be about.
    You care way too much about how others (casuals) experience the game. Them playing beginner mode and getting horrible gear has nothing to do with you. It's one thing if LFR was the highest difficulty and but there's Normal, Heroic, and Mythic for hardcore raiders such as yourself
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  8. #98
    Smile Motherfcuker! Bracket199's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    It's inarguably more convenient. The point is: convenience by itself doesn't facilitate a good game. Too much convenience kills vital processes in an MMO like working harder for your gear, building teams to clear content, and growing in strength before seeing end game content. So that when you get there..you actually give a chit and are challenged, and aren't just facerolling through it.
    I respectfully disagree. The convenience does help make a good game, because it allows players to fully demonstrate their skills and abilities in order to progress in the game. This doesn't discredit the fact that you still have to work harder for your gear, build relationships with your teams, and also getting to the hardest end-game content.

    Whenever I've done difficult Mythic dungeons, the groups were quite cooperative and chatty. I think we communicated more due to the difficulty. The more "casual" the difficulty, the less communication is required.

    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    It sounds like I'm happy? lol. To answer your question though, lack of time + desire is why I don't do normal or harder. Nowadays I only have an hour or two to play and I'd rather just PVP with that time.

    The fact I didn't go 13/13 on HFC says it all really, as a WC3 fan who adored the Burning Legion story and should want to see Archimonde. The experience is just way too fuking boring.
    Although I'm picking specifically, you mentioned you only have 1-2 hours to play - as does the average gamer. Many cannot commit to the 20 hours/week minimum to clear content. Blizzard changed that playstyle to match something more convenient.

    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    I don't believe that at all, they can't revert because players lash out. My theory is that they folded to the player base. I recall reading posts from 10+ years ago about adding group queues to the game. I also remember the screeching of uber casuals complaining that LFR is important because "I paid the same price for the game as heroic raiders, I DESERVE to see that content!!" If you know anything about the majority of wow players - they are typically short-sighted and have no clue what's good for them. It isn't until they hit the slightest inconvenience that they start complaining for changes.

    So you can say that some players will quit because they have to talk in /2, but the game exploded under that design. Plus, myself and MANY others quit because we despised the current state of the game. So in essence they just reacquired a new player base while flipping the bird to the old player base.
    And they have a point.

    They pay to see the content that they are locked out of. Content should only locked due to skill, rather than commitment - this is what sets the "elite" players apart. I don't think it's fair that a player cannot raid because he/she cannot commit 20+ hours to play during the week and then is unable to complete content because of that.

    (I believe EA went through the same issue with their game (Star Wars) by locking characters that either forced you to pay the extra amount for, or play a tremendous amount of the game to have them unlocked. Basically they made it a cash-grab.)

    Like .aeterna said, the game exploded during that time because MMO's were a big thing. It followed the same design as Everquest, but was more casual (from what I've heard). Since games are no longer like that due to the new generation, they aren't going to proceed in that direction.

    Blizzard has the option to cater to two groups: casual (95% of playerbase), or elites (5% of playerbase). Which one does a business try and satisfy?
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  9. #99
    Forever College Student CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The convenience does help make a good game, because it allows players to fully demonstrate their skills and abilities in order to progress in the game. This doesn't discredit the fact that you still have to work harder for your gear, build relationships with your teams, and also getting to the hardest end-game content.
    We're arguing different points now. It can help but in and of itself doesn't always = improvement. To put it into perspective: it would be convenient if I could get free epic gear sets but that's not an improvement to the quality of the experience.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    Whenever I've done difficult Mythic dungeons, the groups were quite cooperative and chatty. I think we communicated more due to the difficulty. The more "casual" the difficulty, the less communication is required.



    Although I'm picking specifically, you mentioned you only have 1-2 hours to play - as does the average gamer. Many cannot commit to the 20 hours/week minimum to clear content. Blizzard changed that playstyle to match something more convenient.
    I know, I never argued mythic was bad system. And there's plenty of people that have more time to play, Blizzard just preferred biasing towards repeated instance content rather than the traditional game design. They've fundamentally shifted their player base rather than adapted to it. Evidenced by the multitude of people that quit for displeasure with game design or to do strictly private.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    And they have a point.

    They pay to see the content that they are locked out of. Content should only locked due to skill, rather than commitment - this is what sets the "elite" players apart. I don't think it's fair that a player cannot raid because he/she cannot commit 20+ hours to play during the week and then is unable to complete content because of that.

    (I believe EA went through the same issue with their game (Star Wars) by locking characters that either forced you to pay the extra amount for, or play a tremendous amount of the game to have them unlocked. Basically they made it a cash-grab.)

    Like .aeterna said, the game exploded during that time because MMO's were a big thing. It followed the same design as Everquest, but was more casual (from what I've heard). Since games are no longer like that due to the new generation, they aren't going to proceed in that direction.

    Blizzard has the option to cater to two groups: casual (95% of playerbase), or elites (5% of playerbase). Which one does a business try and satisfy?
    By that logic, there should be no gear requirements or gear at all, just make everything baseline and raids are open when you hit 100. Regarding your emphasis on skill only...well that's your opinion and it's at odds with every MMO design ever. You're supposed to beat content which passively increases your gear and skill together, to then progress further. If you want 100% content access with zero effort, you should be playing an FPS or fighting game, not an RPG. And you don't need 20+ hours a week to raid normal or even heroic, especially if you are skilled. Maybe we should start complaining because I can't quest in Silithus when I'm level 10 and I don't want to invest the time to hit that level because I paid for the game.

    Also to attribute WoW's rise just to the explosion of the MMO genre is naive af. It was central to that explosion...
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    Registered User NillaWafer's Avatar
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    I hate this thread because it kills my productivity lul. Every topic that's brought up, I research for an hour trying to figure out the pros/cons. RIP my work.

    As for LFR, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I kind of like that everyone can see the content without having to fully gear a character to prebis blues. There are issues with it, but I think the pros outweigh the cons. That being said, it would never work in vanilla.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    They pay to see the content that they are locked out of. Content should only locked due to skill, rather than commitment - this is what sets the "elite" players apart. I don't think it's fair that a player cannot raid because he/she cannot commit 20+ hours to play during the week and then is unable to complete content because of that.
    I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Apart from attunements and weekly resets, I don't think players have ever been locked out of content. A casual player could raid if he wanted to. It would just take him longer than the elite players to complete and finish the content, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Besides, what did casual players do before LFR? Pretty sure there have been casual players doing all sorts of content since the beginning of WoW.

    I also find that statement a bit ironic because the best players are the ones that put in the most time. Repetition is how you get better after all. Raiding, both retail and vanilla, reflects that.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    You care way too much about how others (casuals) experience the game. Them playing beginner mode and getting horrible gear has nothing to do with you. It's one thing if LFR was the highest difficulty and but there's Normal, Heroic, and Mythic for hardcore raiders such as yourself
    Of course it does, I play with these people. Instead of normals and heroics they're in LFR

    I'm not hardcore in the slightest either lol. That screenshot is from Mists of Pandaria and SoO is the only raid I took seriously. WoD through legion I've beat maybe half the LFR bosses because I become bored. I can't even stick around for tourist mode because I'm falling asleep.

    Originally Posted by NillaWafer View Post
    I hate this thread because it kills my productivity lul. Every topic that's brought up, I research for an hour trying to figure out the pros/cons. RIP my work.

    As for LFR, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I kind of like that everyone can see the content without having to fully gear a character to prebis blues. There are issues with it, but I think the pros outweigh the cons. That being said, it would never work in vanilla.



    I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Apart from attunements and weekly resets, I don't think players have ever been locked out of content. A casual player could raid if he wanted to. It would just take him longer than the elite players to complete and finish the content, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Besides, what did casual players do before LFR? Pretty sure there have been casual players doing all sorts of content since the beginning of WoW.

    I also find that statement a bit ironic because the best players are the ones that put in the most time. Repetition is how you get better after all. Raiding, both retail and vanilla, reflects that.
    The millennial mindset and self-righteousness is rife in the wow community.

    An LFR raider demanding the same raid experience as a mythic raider is like an incel demanding the same sex life as a pornstar.

    LFRcels confirmed.
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    The millennial mindset and self-righteousness is rife in the wow community.

    An LFR raider demanding the same raid experience as a mythic raider is like an incel demanding the same sex life as a pornstar.

    LFRcels confirmed.
    I'm gonna use LFR whenever I get BFA because I can't be bothered gearing a proper char lul, so I guess I can't complain.

    But ya, I'm not a fan of retail because of how the gearing and itemization works. The whole titanforging and free legendary system is kind of stupid imo, and I also don't like how item level is the only thing that matters. Getting loot in retail doesn't feel rewarding at all, it's just kind of there.
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  13. #103
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .aeterna's Avatar
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    You do realize the mechanics in LFR and Mythic are different right?

    LFR is basically a tank and spark for every boss. There is no way the experience in LFR is remotely close to that in Mythic
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    LFR is actually harder than Mythic raiding. The challenge is getting the most incompetent players of WoW to overcome seemingly easy mechanics. The mechanics are designed to be very simple, but extremely punishing to the entire group when potatoes screw up.
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    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    The game got old. Plain and simple. Remaking Classic wow wont be a success. Think about it:

    - The game was fundamentally broken in several ways all the way up to WOTLK and was needlessly complicateed. Talents that added 1% crit, or reduced 1% threat.
    - Weapons Skill was completely fking useless pointless and served no point other than to antagonize you, literally
    - Raid mechanics were limited back then. Bosses were very simple mechanically. They only felt difficult cause of resource management (mana), threat mangement, debuff limits on bosses, and everybody straightup sucking because nobody knew how to play back then
    - And also....the bosses will ALREADY BE ON FARM. Everybody already knows the mechanics.

    - Classes didnt work like they were supposed to and many classes just straight up werent viable.
    - Loot was bad only a few pcs of loot per 40man raid

    - Mechanics were super broken. No Diminishing returns on CCs.

    - Guilds are gonna be a mess....EVERYBODY is gonna want Ateish or Scarab Lord

    I predict Classic wow will only release 3-4 Servers and after 2 years Blizzard will probably merge all 4 of them and add LFR into that.

    And think of all the upkeep Classic wow will need. People complaing on forums to make such and such changes that werent in the original but they want it anyways because they are used to flying mounts or whatever da fuq since they are used to playing WOTLK onwards. Honestly I feel sorry for Blizzard. After 1.5 years people are gonna be asking for a BC server and then a WOTLK server


    Edit:

    Blizzard really should have let wow die after WOTLK. They are running out of story lines. Nobody cared about deathwing....seriously...Nobody cared about Pandas or the Zandalar even though they were already in the game and they certainly did not deserve their own expansion. Draenor....seriously wtf?.....Legion should have been the expansion to follow WOTLK and perhaps followed up by BFA....Cataclysm and MOP were fun though, they were legit fun. But Blizzard should have put that time and effort into making D3 not suck or making a Diablo MMO. The story lines after WOTLK were just stupid.....Why do I need to kill Ragnaros twice?!?!

    Storywise Deathwing is like Han Solo. Yea hes significant but did he really need his own movie? lmao
    A lot of the things you listed are things people liked about classic WoW.
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    Originally Posted by Slurgie View Post
    A lot of the things you listed are things people liked about classic WoW.
    Huh?

    Such as?
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  17. #107
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    Huh?

    Such as?
    The raid management part; having to worry about threat, mana (over healing was an issue), limited debuffs was actually kind of fun since it added another thing to be aware of.

    Classes (mostly) worked the way they were supposed to, but I will agree that many simply were not viable in many scenarios and pretty much everyone used the cookie cutter 'best spec' for whatever they were doing.

    While Vanilla was a grind in many ways, it was a fun grind (IMO); and the fact that many classes felt more specific to a role added to the fun of raids and grouping since the build of the group mattered. Not you can pretty much get whatever in a group and manage (for most of it) and that detracts from the grouping mechanics.

    Not saying you don't bring up any good points though, much of Vanilla was either inefficient or just ass backwards, but I still like it.
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    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    Huh?

    Such as?

    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    Needlessly complicateed. Talents that added 1% crit, or reduced 1% threat.
    A lot of players liked the complications and nuances of having tons more talents/abilities to choose from. People like options, and they like having to figure things out or do calculations. People play mmos to feel like they're doing things for themselves, not to feel like everything was already handled for them and presented on a silver platter.

    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    And also....the bosses will ALREADY BE ON FARM. Everybody already knows the mechanics.
    Most WoW players including those who started in 2005 never made it to vanilla raids.

    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    -Classes didnt work like they were supposed to and many classes just straight up weren't viable.
    - Mechanics were super broken. No Diminishing returns on CCs.
    A lot of people liked the massive differences between classes & broken mechanics. Mages who could 1 shot players and sheep them underwater. Or rogues who could kill people before they got out of stunlock most of the time. People have fond memories of stuff like that. It was kill or be killed, quick draw style, which made pvp feel like the wild wild west. No stupid resilience making fights last 5 minutes before 1 person died. Not everything needs to be 100% fair because that makes things dull. People like extremes. Besides, I don't remember any of the classes being unviable or way behind everyone else.


    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    Loot was bad only a few pcs of loot per 40man raid
    Again, something a lot of people liked. Items and characters actually felt unique back then because good loot wasn't handed out like candy. The people who like classic are people who don't think everyone should get a participation trophy.



    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    And think of all the upkeep Classic wow will need. People complaing on forums to make such and such changes that werent in the original but they want it anyways because they are used to flying mounts or whatever
    A lot of people hate flying mounts and for the most part think they were paramount in ruining the feel of the game. They made the game feel barren, and less like a real world. Speeding up travel and LFR was also an extension of that horrible game design choice. Back in the day you thought seeing people out in the world running around was normal, and you expected that. You knew you were gonna get ganked. You knew as soon as you left the city you'd run into a bunch of other players everywhere. A couple expansions later and it was all gone.
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    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .aeterna's Avatar
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    reading through that post, I realize, Vanilla was fun when it was the only WoW out there. Now, i think its awful and will never join a classic server. No thanks to waiting 15 minutes auto-running across Barrens again.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    reading through that post, I realize, Vanilla was fun when it was the only WoW out there. Now, i think its awful and will never join a classic server. No thanks to waiting 15 minutes auto-running across Barrens again.
    You're missin out boyo. Nostalrius was a blast and chat was hilarious.

    Tbh I chuckle when people denigrate Vanilla for being obsolete or boring, when fact of the matter is retail has devolved in a few key aspects and socialization is one.

    I'll take running with my group to Razorfen Kraul to take down elites over melting rare spawns solo in retail anyday.
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    You're missin out boyo. Nostalrius was a blast and chat was hilarious.

    Tbh I chuckle when people denigrate Vanilla for being obsolete or boring, when fact of the matter is retail has devolved in a few key aspects and socialization is one.

    I'll take running with my group to Razorfen Kraul to take down elites over melting rare spawns solo in retail anyday.
    Totally agree, actually isnt that bad and I had a blast playing on private servers where gear wasnt handed to you. Rolled orc hunter and doing that Bow questline was a kunt and was challenging as chit which i missed
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    Originally Posted by Titansfan08 View Post
    Totally agree, actually isnt that bad and I had a blast playing on private servers where gear wasnt handed to you. Rolled orc hunter and doing that Bow questline was a kunt and was challenging as chit which i missed
    I never rolled a vanilla hunter but I've rolled multiple warriors. Brutal armor and Whirlwind Axe are such a bitch but worth it.

    I gotta find my old screenshots. My favorite Nostalrius memory was when everyone at crossroads joined to take down this human rogue in full T2. There was some horde in the 40-50ss leading us and like 20 lowbies in fukin leather and cloth chasing this rogue down and hitting him, lmao. He tried to vanish and some mage snared him good.
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    I never rolled a vanilla hunter but I've rolled multiple warriors. Brutal armor and Whirlwind Axe are such a bitch but worth it.

    I gotta find my old screenshots. My favorite Nostalrius memory was when everyone at crossroads joined to take down this human rogue in full T2. There was some horde in the 40-50ss leading us and like 20 lowbies in fukin leather and cloth chasing this rogue down and hitting him, lmao. He tried to vanish and some mage snared him good.
    Yep thats the fun I get out of the game, having 2 min rez timers as well. Bro and I rolled 2 rogues as well and was a blast leveling and ganking
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  24. #114
    Registered User NillaWafer's Avatar
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    I'm probably going to play mage and play exclusively pvp. Bracket 1 every week...Rank 14 here I come.
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    I'm gonna roll a rogue and pick warlocks.
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  26. #116
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    Originally Posted by Slurgie View Post
    A lot of players liked the complications and nuances of having tons more talents/abilities to choose from. People like options, and they like having to figure things out or do calculations. People play mmos to feel like they're doing things for themselves, not to feel like everything was already handled for them and presented on a silver platter.


    Most WoW players including those who started in 2005 never made it to vanilla raids.


    A lot of people liked the massive differences between classes & broken mechanics. Mages who could 1 shot players and sheep them underwater. Or rogues who could kill people before they got out of stunlock most of the time. People have fond memories of stuff like that. It was kill or be killed, quick draw style, which made pvp feel like the wild wild west. No stupid resilience making fights last 5 minutes before 1 person died. Not everything needs to be 100% fair because that makes things dull. People like extremes. Besides, I don't remember any of the classes being unviable or way behind everyone else.



    Again, something a lot of people liked. Items and characters actually felt unique back then because good loot wasn't handed out like candy. The people who like classic are people who don't think everyone should get a participation trophy.




    A lot of people hate flying mounts and for the most part think they were paramount in ruining the feel of the game. They made the game feel barren, and less like a real world. Speeding up travel and LFR was also an extension of that horrible game design choice. Back in the day you thought seeing people out in the world running around was normal, and you expected that. You knew you were gonna get ganked. You knew as soon as you left the city you'd run into a bunch of other players everywhere. A couple expansions later and it was all gone.
    alot of rose colored glasses.

    ill be trying out the classic server when it goes live like everybody else. but it wont bring back that vanilla feeling.

    Also:
    - people didnt hate flying. flying made it all the way from BC to WOTLK to Cata to MOP. Even in Draenor and Legion it was available. People didnt hate flying. Blizzard just took it out at the beginning of the tiers as a way to force people to see the content isntead of jsut blowing through it. People definitely did not hate flying and you are lost and confused if you believe thats the case.
    - the fights back then were still simple. the mechanics were basically the equivalent of heroic 5m dungeon mechanics with bigger damage penalties. The epitome of Vanilla raiding was Onyxia and Naxx. Onyxia has 2 mechanics and most Naxx bosses only have 1-2 as well.
    - The 1% threat talents were dumb....they really were....infact those 1% talents were usually the talents you didnt max so that you could invest in other trees to get a mid tier talent. like as a warlock maybe you only put in 1pt in 1% shadow dmg crit in demonology so that you might be able to reach and unlock conflagrate as a demo lock. But even then if you did that you wouldnt reach demonform as a demolock could you didnt unlock enough talents.
    - Weapons skill was useless and could be maxed in a matter of 10's of minutes. They didnt add dmg but would affect your % to hit or get parried if you didnt max it. It was pointless.

    - The participation trophy part, I do agree with that but I dont think Loot was the reward. Titles and Achievements/Mounts were the real reward. But blizz messed that up by not removing mount/titles after xpacs. Even if the loot was hard to come by, in the new classic server, everybody will have the loot after half a year cause everybody will already know the fights. There is only 1 difficulty and now we have youtube and wowhead. 2 humongous resources that werent available before and are way way more informative than thotbot.

    I will still try it out like everybody else, even though I wont buy or try BFA. But Im not expecting it to be something I play more than a few months tbh. I wish this wasnt on blizzards agenda so that they could put more time and effort into D4.
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  27. #117
    Pattaya Dan916's Avatar
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    I dont understand the point.. Anyone that knows anything about classic vanilla servers knows what a joke raiding is now adays when it comes to Tier1 and Tier2. So whats the point of a live server? So your account is guaranteed not to be deleted? Is that it? You're still facerolling easy ass content that you've now done 15 times over. Enjoy your 30 second boss fights.

    To all you people missing the "social aspect" consider Project1999.. It's Everquest, meaning no instances, 110 guildees in my teamspeak raiding ****.. More intense than any WoW raid youll experience.

    If you dont believe me.. here is 350 people from 5 different guilds fighting for 1 Boss that dropped 1 item, yesterday.

    Skip to 3:55 to see the cluster when it reaches camp
    if you read guild chat, thats a complete heal chain on the main tank. Something unheard of for many of you im sure lol.
    Last edited by Dan916; 08-14-2018 at 12:50 AM.
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  28. #118
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    Always get a kick out of seeing this image

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  29. #119
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    you guys sure have changed my mind

    I played on nostalrius for 2 years and had 5 level 60's and raided on both factions all because of nostalgia and rose coloured goggles

    it has nothing to do with me enjoying the game 10x more than modern WoW ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  30. #120
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    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    you guys sure have changed my mind

    I played on nostalrius for 2 years and had 5 level 60's and raided on both factions all because of nostalgia and rose coloured goggles

    it has nothing to do with me enjoying the game 10x more than modern WoW ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Lold, blizz fanboys get their panties in a bunch when you talk chit about retail.
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