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  1. #61
    Forever College Student CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by suaveking View Post
    how would you guys feel if blizz didn't allow streaming of classic servers?
    You mean official? Why would they do that?

    They already shut down private server streams when they get noticed.
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  2. #62
    Registered User suaveking's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    You mean official? Why would they do that?

    They already shut down private server streams when they get noticed.
    yeah i meant official servers. i highly doubt blizz would ever do that but personally i would be all for it. twitch has sort of ruined gaming to an extent imo
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  3. #63
    Registered User Purfected's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by suaveking View Post
    yeah i meant official servers. i highly doubt blizz would ever do that but personally i would be all for it. twitch has sort of ruined gaming to an extent imo

    definitly going to avoid playing on a server with sodapoppin / asmongold / other large streamers. there fanboys will ruin those servers
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  4. #64
    Registered User Purfected's Avatar
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    youtube comment section argument. on a video about why people remember classic leveling and I post a comment saying that in classic there is much more incentive to group up and talk to other players to accomplish difficult tasks throughout the entire game experience. whereas in current WoW it can all be done without talking to anybody and queueing from menus.

    somebody says that "the main part of the game is mythic raiding, you think you can solo mythic raiding??"

    I tell him that is exactly the problem. the top 1% of all the content is WoW is the only content which incentivises grouping and forming a good group to overcome it. the rest of the world, raids, leveling, dungeons, etc are all irrelevant and require no need to group.

    he replies "how is it only 1% of the game? I spend 50% of my time doing mythic"

    and then
    he calls me narrow minded

    and im like

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  5. #65
    Smile Motherfcuker! Bracket199's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    youtube comment section argument. on a video about why people remember classic leveling and I post a comment saying that in classic there is much more incentive to group up and talk to other players to accomplish difficult tasks throughout the entire game experience. whereas in current WoW it can all be done without talking to anybody and queueing from menus.

    somebody says that "the main part of the game is mythic raiding, you think you can solo mythic raiding??"

    I tell him that is exactly the problem. the top 1% of all the content is WoW is the only content which incentivises grouping and forming a good group to overcome it. the rest of the world, raids, leveling, dungeons, etc are all irrelevant and require no need to group.

    he replies "how is it only 1% of the game? I spend 50% of my time doing mythic"

    and then
    he calls me narrow minded

    and im like

    [/img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPRE4hiUEAA3vyG.png[/img]
    But he has a point.

    You've been projecting this "incentive" of grouping with people in Classic - when it was completely forced. You're not the only one, others (outside of this thread) have as well.

    I grouped with people in Vanilla to get group quests completed, dungeons completed, or to not fight for kill quests. There was never an incentive to group just for the sake of grouping. Most people just spammed General chat or guild to socialize.

    I never saw groups going out with "hey, anyone want to group and complete this quest together?" Grouping also lowered the amount of exp you received per kill, so it in fact took you longer.

    Your next part also makes no sense. In order to complete all dungeons/raids and Mythics, you need groups. I don't follow where you're getting at?


    This was also apparent in people complaining about Talent trees. I do like the older talent tree, as there was a good "incentive" for putting talents in after each level, but it also made no sense since Talent trees were pigeon-holed. They could make it for more talents, but flexibility that each talent cant be used for various scenarios.
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  6. #66
    Registered User Purfected's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    But he has a point.

    You've been projecting this "incentive" of grouping with people in Classic - when it was completely forced. You're not the only one, others (outside of this thread) have as well.

    I grouped with people in Vanilla to get group quests completed, dungeons completed, or to not fight for kill quests. There was never an incentive to group just for the sake of grouping. Most people just spammed General chat or guild to socialize.
    grouping to complete quests, dungeons, and kill quests easier was the incentive.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    I never saw groups going out with "hey, anyone want to group and complete this quest together?"
    complete lie. people always asked in general chat etc looking for people to group up for hard quests.

    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    Your next part also makes no sense. In order to complete all dungeons/raids and Mythics, you need groups. I don't follow where you're getting at?
    mythic is the only content in the game which requires you to form a good group and communicate. the rest of the game is irrelevant and requires no communication. and you queue up for it from a menu.



    stop being wilfully ignorant.
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  7. #67
    Registered User Titansfan08's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    But he has a point.

    You've been projecting this "incentive" of grouping with people in Classic - when it was completely forced. You're not the only one, others (outside of this thread) have as well.

    I grouped with people in Vanilla to get group quests completed, dungeons completed, or to not fight for kill quests. There was never an incentive to group just for the sake of grouping. Most people just spammed General chat or guild to socialize.

    I never saw groups going out with "hey, anyone want to group and complete this quest together?" Grouping also lowered the amount of exp you received per kill, so it in fact took you longer.

    Your next part also makes no sense. In order to complete all dungeons/raids and Mythics, you need groups. I don't follow where you're getting at?


    This was also apparent in people complaining about Talent trees. I do like the older talent tree, as there was a good "incentive" for putting talents in after each level, but it also made no sense since Talent trees were pigeon-holed. They could make it for more talents, but flexibility that each talent cant be used for various scenarios.
    Was nice to go to a zone fresh like Hinterlands though where you get 20 quests at once and group with someone so it goes quicker bonus if both aoe big groups down.
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  8. #68
    undead warrior brah Besaidbrah's Avatar
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    Blizzard isn't the same company it was when it released WoW. It's owned by Activision, and the "classic" servers released by Activision will not be the same as what we all remember. Mark my words.

    They've been putting that marxist leninist feminist stuff in their products and selling levels.. you can take selfies in wow now for goodness sakes. Expect them to screw this up.
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  9. #69
    Smile Motherfcuker! Bracket199's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    grouping to complete quests, dungeons, and kill quests easier was the incentive.
    Completing some quests required groups.
    Dungeons required groups.
    Killing quests to make them easier required groups.

    The only change Legion (and I think WoD as well) did was make a QoL change for mob-tagging so you didn't have to group. Grouping was still required, but they hid it through changes.

    complete lie. people always asked in general chat etc looking for people to group up for hard quests.
    See above

    mythic is the only content in the game which requires you to form a good group and communicate. the rest of the game is irrelevant and requires no communication. and you queue up for it from a menu.
    I never remembered a lot of communication in groups other than updates for people's quests, or CC'ing targets. Other than that, it was cut-and-dry.

    stop being wilfully ignorant.
    I'm not. I'm just not cherry-picking the game to say why it's better. I don't hate Classic at all, and I played on Nostalrius and had a level 60. But Blizzard is going in the right direction with their game, and wants to focus their attention on that.

    Classic server hype didn't die because Blizzard announced these servers. It died because Legion was a good game.
    I don't know if you recall, but people were so excited for WoD that there were queue times just to play. They saw the biggest jump in subscriber history for that expansion, and then saw the biggest drop. WoD was so bad that everyone jumped ship to Private Servers and enjoyed the game more.

    Blizzard will slowly release Classic on the fact they will see how BfA is performing. If it's poorly, they will expedite the project. If not, they will "release it when it's ready" - no matter how large their team working on it is.

    Blizzcon this year will just show the progression they are doing to Classic - and nothing more. It won't have a release date, other then "soon". The earliest they will release will be November 2019 to commemorate 15 years of WoW.
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  10. #70
    Registered User NillaWafer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    Completing some quests required groups.
    Dungeons required groups.
    Killing quests to make them easier required groups.

    The only change Legion (and I think WoD as well) did was make a QoL change for mob-tagging so you didn't have to group. Grouping was still required, but they hid it through changes.



    See above



    I never remembered a lot of communication in groups other than updates for people's quests, or CC'ing targets. Other than that, it was cut-and-dry.



    I'm not. I'm just not cherry-picking the game to say why it's better. I don't hate Classic at all, and I played on Nostalrius and had a level 60. But Blizzard is going in the right direction with their game, and wants to focus their attention on that.

    Classic server hype didn't die because Blizzard announced these servers. It died because Legion was a good game.
    I don't know if you recall, but people were so excited for WoD that there were queue times just to play. They saw the biggest jump in subscriber history for that expansion, and then saw the biggest drop. WoD was so bad that everyone jumped ship to Private Servers and enjoyed the game more.

    Blizzard will slowly release Classic on the fact they will see how BfA is performing. If it's poorly, they will expedite the project. If not, they will "release it when it's ready" - no matter how large their team working on it is.

    Blizzcon this year will just show the progression they are doing to Classic - and nothing more. It won't have a release date, other then "soon". The earliest they will release will be November 2019 to commemorate 15 years of WoW.
    Sounds like you just want Classic to fail for no other reason than to prove a point. I'm not sure why you're even posting in here.
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  11. #71
    Registered User ooph's Avatar
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    Did current WoW get real difficult after the recent scaling patch?

    My aff warlock was 941... Now theres **** everywhere I used to afk demolish that is actually a struggle.
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  12. #72
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .aeterna's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NillaWafer View Post
    Sounds like you just want Classic to fail for no other reason than to prove a point. I'm not sure why you're even posting in here.
    nobody wants Classic to fail. We're just correcting people who are spreading misinformation about current retail WoW. I mean, who would you rather want opinions from. someone who only played Vanilla or someone who played Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK, Cata, Panda, WoD, and Legion? TBH, idgaf about Classic servers because I won't touch them but i understand there's a minority of folks who are obsessed with it. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem when those people are misinformed and give wrong information about current WoW because this influences people who are interested in starting/returning to WoW.

    Originally Posted by ooph View Post
    Did current WoW get real difficult after the recent scaling patch?

    My aff warlock was 941... Now theres **** everywhere I used to afk demolish that is actually a struggle.
    There was a stat squish in preparation for BFA. it shouldnt really impact end-game content though. It was a bigger impact for leveling, specifically 60-80, which slowed to a crawl due to mob HP. Blizz released a hotfix last week to address this.
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  13. #73
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    neg comment from bracket199

    "stay salty you FA. Sorry I have a job and focus my life on other things other than a video game"


    >better things to do other than a video game
    >writes a novel in every post to talk about video game he says he doesn't care about


    literally what are you even saying dude? it's a debate on how classic WoW had more focus on community building and how many people looking forward to playing classic are looking forward to the community

    then you come by arguing that classic WoW is not as good and people won't like it, and being a pessimistic little spaz about classic.

    then when you get called out on your dumb bullchit you play the "durr i have a job i don't focus my life around vidya gaymes durr" card

    fking moron i swear.
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  14. #74
    Registered User newcomb12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ooph View Post
    Did current WoW get real difficult after the recent scaling patch?

    My aff warlock was 941... Now theres **** everywhere I used to afk demolish that is actually a struggle.
    Some things did become marginally more difficult. Im not familiar with the gcd changes for locks but my DH became much slower to play which slowed the killing.
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  15. #75
    Smile Motherfcuker! Bracket199's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    neg comment from bracket199

    "stay salty you FA. Sorry I have a job and focus my life on other things other than a video game"


    >better things to do other than a video game
    >writes a novel in every post to talk about video game he says he doesn't care about


    literally what are you even saying dude? it's a debate on how classic WoW had more focus on community building and how many people looking forward to playing classic are looking forward to the community

    then you come by arguing that classic WoW is not as good and people won't like it, and being a pessimistic little spaz about classic.

    then when you get called out on your dumb bullchit you play the "durr i have a job i don't focus my life around vidya gaymes durr" card

    fking moron i swear.
    I had no interest in negging you, but you started the whole thing, so I just reciprocated.

    You clearly are blinded by the nostalgia of a video game, because you've provided nothing but the same argument as to why Vanilla is better. That Cali guy at least provided more input in the argument then your same rhetoric going in circles. I'm discussing why retail is currently moving in the right direction and it bothers you tremendously.

    People are looking forward to Classic. I'm looking forward to Classic. But I'm also not stupid enough to realize that the game is currently progressing in the right direction. The vocal minority thinks otherwise, but cannot accept the fact that Blizzard has a strong game being developed, which will put aside the Classic release.

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  16. #76
    Registered User Purfected's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    I had no interest in negging you, but you started the whole thing, so I just reciprocated.

    You clearly are blinded by the nostalgia of a video game, because you've provided nothing but the same argument as to why Vanilla is better. That Cali guy at least provided more input in the argument then your same rhetoric going in circles. I'm discussing why retail is currently moving in the right direction and it bothers you tremendously.

    People are looking forward to Classic. I'm looking forward to Classic. But I'm also not stupid enough to realize that the game is currently progressing in the right direction. The vocal minority thinks otherwise, but cannot accept the fact that Blizzard has a strong game being developed, which will put aside the Classic release.

    I remember you back during the Nost days. I stand with my comment - I truly believe you have nothing better than playing this video game so you can withdraw from life.

    sure looks like it's progressing in the right direction



    since this seems like a relevant thing to you during this convo.

    I also work a full time job and I haven't played ANY games since Nostalrius closed 2 years ago.

    you on the other hand have a twitch channel with a streaming schedule to stream video games 20 hours a week. looks like video games are a big part of your life despite trying to claim otherwise.
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    Originally Posted by suaveking View Post
    yeah i meant official servers. i highly doubt blizz would ever do that but personally i would be all for it. twitch has sort of ruined gaming to an extent imo
    I think it would be a mistake though, having a ton of streamers on Twitch can only help your game. Alot of OG streamers are super stoked for Vanilla: Swifty, Asmongold, Soda. A few other streamers have built follower bases on it too like Esfand. That's like 70,000+ viewers right there (on an average day).
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    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    sure looks like it's progressing in the right direction



    since this seems like a relevant thing to you during this convo.

    I also work a full time job and I haven't played ANY games since Nostalrius closed 2 years ago.

    you on the other hand have a twitch channel with a streaming schedule to stream video games 20 hours a week. looks like video games are a big part of your life despite trying to claim otherwise.
    Thank you for the graph. I was hoping one was made for Legion, but I guess they never released it.

    WoD had the highest expectations, and failed miserably. It was unfortunate, because they had one of the largest jumps in subscription history, and lost it all immediately after.

    Of all expansions, I disliked it the most. I think the content wasn't the most exciting, and the garrison work felt like a chore. This is just my opinion.

    Unfortunately, I don't stream anymore. I don't think I've streamed for 3-4 years now. I was only streaming for about 20 hours/week, and that wasn't enough to get a captivating audience. I did enjoy it a lot. I just had too many things going on: work, school, and trying to fit time to game. If my schedule allows it for next year, I'd love to do it again.

    Video games are a big enough part of my life that I enjoy them, but I know other priorities take precedence over it.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    nobody wants Classic to fail. We're just correcting people who are spreading misinformation about current retail WoW. I mean, who would you rather want opinions from. someone who only played Vanilla or someone who played Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK, Cata, Panda, WoD, and Legion? TBH, idgaf about Classic servers because I won't touch them but i understand there's a minority of folks who are obsessed with it. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem when those people are misinformed and give wrong information about current WoW because this influences people who are interested in starting/returning to WoW.
    When Bracket calls everyone who wants to play vanilla an 'FA trying to cope with life', it sounds like he wants Vanilla to fail. I don't think you'd say that if you want the game to succeed, but maybe I'm wrong.

    But I'm not sure what misinformation is being spread? What Purfected has said about current retail isn't necessarily wrong. Grouping has been trivialized in Retail by things like LFR/LFD as well as by Blizzard's own sharding system which allows players to just show up at a 'group' quest and complete it. And in those cases that you do need to find a group, Blizzard allows you to just drop into a queue and play with five or however many others who you likely will never see again once the quest is complete.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to build a community in retail. I'm sure there are a lot of successful guilds and communities that are great. It's just that the game itself doesn't allow players to build those communities in the way that it used to.

    As for this mythic argument, we're comparing mechanics from games that are almost 15 years apart. I'm sure the Legion raid mechanics are a lot more complex and intricate than anything that even existed in vanilla, and I'm sure a lot of players find beating those mythic raids and challenges to be incredibly rewarding and fun. That doesn't mean there's no appeal to Vanilla raiding and that it's objectively bad because the mechanics are simpler. Those are subjective tastes that some players like and others don't.

    The same can be said of the classes. Some players like the homogenization of classes in Retail, where every dps, heal, or tank spec is relatively the same, but others like the niche aspects of Vanilla classes. It doesn't mean one is objectively worse or better than the other. It's just subjective taste, yet a lot of this subjectiveness is being passed as truth and evidence of superiority by one side or the other.

    edit: didn't mean to write a novel, just kind of happened lul.
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    Originally Posted by NillaWafer View Post
    When Bracket calls everyone who wants to play vanilla an 'FA trying to cope with life', it sounds like he wants Vanilla to fail. I don't think you'd say that if you want the game to succeed, but maybe I'm wrong.

    But I'm not sure what misinformation is being spread? What Purfected has said about current retail isn't necessarily wrong. Grouping has been trivialized in Retail by things like LFR/LFD as well as by Blizzard's own sharding system which allows players to just show up at a 'group' quest and complete it. And in those cases that you do need to find a group, Blizzard allows you to just drop into a queue and play with five or however many others who you likely will never see again once the quest is complete.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to build a community in retail. I'm sure there are a lot of successful guilds and communities that are great. It's just that the game itself doesn't allow players to build those communities in the way that it used to.

    As for this mythic argument, we're comparing mechanics from games that are almost 15 years apart. I'm sure the Legion raid mechanics are a lot more complex and intricate than anything that even existed in vanilla, and I'm sure a lot of players find beating those mythic raids and challenges to be incredibly rewarding and fun. That doesn't mean there's no appeal to Vanilla raiding and that it's objectively bad because the mechanics are simpler. Those are subjective tastes that some players like and others don't.

    The same can be said of the classes. Some players like the homogenization of classes in Retail, where every dps, heal, or tank spec is relatively the same, but others like the niche aspects of Vanilla classes. It doesn't mean one is objectively worse or better than the other. It's just subjective taste, yet a lot of this subjectiveness is being passed as truth and evidence of superiority by one side or the other.

    edit: didn't mean to write a novel, just kind of happened lul.
    All good points. Personally I don't see why it has to be black and white. The perfect WoW would be one that continues to evolve raid mechanics and balance while also keeping RPG elements of the game.

    Porting everywhere, queuing up, stomping anything outside of mythic and getting showered with random loot isn't very RPG - and those are some of my biggest complaints with retail.
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    All good points. Personally I don't see why it has to be black and white. The perfect WoW would be one that continues to evolve raid mechanics and balance while also keeping RPG elements of the game.

    Porting everywhere, queuing up, stomping anything outside of mythic and getting showered with random loot isn't very RPG - and those are some of my biggest complaints with retail.
    I made a Mage named Wtfrost in TBC (still have him!) just to have exclusivities to ports and teleporting everywhere when travelling was still somewhat of a pain back then.


    Brb doesn't really matter now outside of tossing out a Dal port at the end of a M+ for the group.


    edit: that mage was my favorite character in TBC/Wotlk because of all the utility they brought to parties (food, arcane intellect, ports, sheep).. as that stuff became less important my interest in that character began to wane.

    Now I can only see myself playing a rogue.. outlaw when I don't want something too challenging (plus its fun as hell) and sub when I want a more complex rotation/management.

    Stealth/Vanish is also my favorite spell in the entire game
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    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .aeterna's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NillaWafer View Post
    When Bracket calls everyone who wants to play vanilla an 'FA trying to cope with life', it sounds like he wants Vanilla to fail. I don't think you'd say that if you want the game to succeed, but maybe I'm wrong.

    But I'm not sure what misinformation is being spread? What Purfected has said about current retail isn't necessarily wrong. Grouping has been trivialized in Retail by things like LFR/LFD as well as by Blizzard's own sharding system which allows players to just show up at a 'group' quest and complete it. And in those cases that you do need to find a group, Blizzard allows you to just drop into a queue and play with five or however many others who you likely will never see again once the quest is complete.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to build a community in retail. I'm sure there are a lot of successful guilds and communities that are great. It's just that the game itself doesn't allow players to build those communities in the way that it used to.

    As for this mythic argument, we're comparing mechanics from games that are almost 15 years apart. I'm sure the Legion raid mechanics are a lot more complex and intricate than anything that even existed in vanilla, and I'm sure a lot of players find beating those mythic raids and challenges to be incredibly rewarding and fun. That doesn't mean there's no appeal to Vanilla raiding and that it's objectively bad because the mechanics are simpler. Those are subjective tastes that some players like and others don't.

    The same can be said of the classes. Some players like the homogenization of classes in Retail, where every dps, heal, or tank spec is relatively the same, but others like the niche aspects of Vanilla classes. It doesn't mean one is objectively worse or better than the other. It's just subjective taste, yet a lot of this subjectiveness is being passed as truth and evidence of superiority by one side or the other.

    edit: didn't mean to write a novel, just kind of happened lul.
    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    All good points. Personally I don't see why it has to be black and white. The perfect WoW would be one that continues to evolve raid mechanics and balance while also keeping RPG elements of the game.

    Porting everywhere, queuing up, stomping anything outside of mythic and getting showered with random loot isn't very RPG - and those are some of my biggest complaints with retail.
    Any content that you "queue" up for is essentially beginner/casual content and as a result, you get beginner gear (it's the equivalent of low-level blues for Vanilla). I just don't see how a function that allows casual players to peek at end-game raids/dungeons (without having to spam chat for groups) is a bad thing. If LFR/LFG did not exist, these people would quit after hitting max level and realizing nobody will take them in a group because their gear is so poverty.

    Why is this a concern for you guys? Fuk filthy casuls i guess? WoW's been dying Lol. Why not have a function that'll help its diminishing population to see end-game content?
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    Any content that you "queue" up for is essentially beginner/casual content and as a result, you get beginner gear (it's the equivalent of low-level blues for Vanilla). I just don't see how a function that allows casual players to peek at end-game raids/dungeons (without having to spam chat for groups) is a bad thing. If LFR/LFG did not exist, these people would quit after hitting max level and realizing nobody will take them in a group because their gear is so poverty.

    Why is this a concern for you guys? Fuk filthy casuls i guess? WoW's been dying Lol. Why not have a function that'll help its diminishing population to see end-game content?
    LFR is awesome.

    Like you said, you can experience end game content without having to feel left out.


    I used to hop in there to get a few tier pieces and get somewhat accustomed to the mechanics before raiding with my guild on the weekend. Well, whatever wing was open at the time (like the first one or two) at which point I never really went back because I'd see the rest of it with the guild.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post

    Why is this a concern for you guys? Fuk filthy casuls i guess? WoW's been dying Lol. Why not have a function that'll help its diminishing population to see end-game content?
    maybe it's a concern for people because they are reasons for why they think the game sucks for them now?


    by the way, WoW has been dieing ever since they started casualizing the game


    by the way the most fun I had during WoW was in TBC when I was a casual. making a game casual friendly doesn't mean the game becomes more fun automatically.
    Last edited by Purfected; 08-09-2018 at 02:27 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    maybe it's a concern for people because they are reasons for why they think the game sucks for them now?


    by the way, WoW has been dieing ever since they started casualizing the game
    WoW was at its peak when MMORPGs were the biggest deal. There was no bigger MMORPG than WoW back then and now. Gaming tends to go in phases; right now its all about the battle royale-type games. First person shooters stay consistently popular. MOBAs are consistent as well.

    But MMORPGs, and RTS like Starcraft, died a long time ago. The generation who appreciated those games moved on to real life chit, and the younger generation has no interest in them. It's less to do with Blizzard's decision to make the game more casual-friendly and more so a generational shift. Right now, kids/teens love Fortnite

    If the Classic server comes out and ends up being more popular than Fortnite, PUBG, LoL, Overwatch, etc. then I will admit that I was completely wrong and that it's not a generational reason for the decline in WoW's playerbase, but rather the casualization of the game.

    Originally Posted by ThatOneLurker View Post
    LFR is awesome.

    Like you said, you can experience end game content without having to feel left out.


    I used to hop in there to get a few tier pieces and get somewhat accustomed to the mechanics before raiding with my guild on the weekend. Well, whatever wing was open at the time (like the first one or two) at which point I never really went back because I'd see the rest of it with the guild.
    Yeah, i think a lot of people used LFR for increased legendary chances, gearing up fresh alts, and also rounding out tier-sets for the bonuses until they got a better piece from normal/heroic/Mythic. Legion was all about having the 4-piece bonus to be effective in any spec (love or hate it). But lots of expansions were like that.
    Last edited by .aeterna; 08-09-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    Any content that you "queue" up for is essentially beginner/casual content and as a result, you get beginner gear (it's the equivalent of low-level blues for Vanilla). I just don't see how a function that allows casual players to peek at end-game raids/dungeons (without having to spam chat for groups) is a bad thing. If LFR/LFG did not exist, these people would quit after hitting max level and realizing nobody will take them in a group because their gear is so poverty.

    Why is this a concern for you guys? Fuk filthy casuls i guess? WoW's been dying Lol. Why not have a function that'll help its diminishing population to see end-game content?
    Casuals are the backbone of the game, so if they're in queues, in the sky, or class halls, they're not socializing in the game world, forming groups manually, questing and traveling together - and the culture of the game takes a nose dive.

    I'm a dead on casual and can still see that faceroll queue up content is detrimental to the game because it decreases motivation for anyone not progression raiding. You can check my armory, not a single boss killed outside of LFR. It's trash man.

    Convenience has taken precedence over everything in this game and it's worse for it.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    Any content that you "queue" up for is essentially beginner/casual content and as a result, you get beginner gear (it's the equivalent of low-level blues for Vanilla). I just don't see how a function that allows casual players to peek at end-game raids/dungeons (without having to spam chat for groups) is a bad thing. If LFR/LFG did not exist, these people would quit after hitting max level and realizing nobody will take them in a group because their gear is so poverty.

    Why is this a concern for you guys? Fuk filthy casuls i guess? WoW's been dying Lol. Why not have a function that'll help its diminishing population to see end-game content?
    I'd actually argue the opposite, that LFR actually hurts the dying population even more.

    What's the drive for a new player to continue playing after they've seen Kil'jaeden or whoever the big bad is for this new expansion? Why renew their subscription next month if they can see all the current content by playing casually and using LFR? I don't think there is a motivation to keep playing, and I think that's why retail WoW has this huge swing of players that play for the first month and then disappear until a later content patch.

    The question is, does Blizz even care? My guess is they make the same if not more money off the initial game sales and from all the microtransactions nowadays, not from subscriptions. They probably don't give 2 fuks about people staying to play the game if dumbasses continue to buy in-game cosmetics that do and add nothing. But that's something else entirely and doesn't have to anything to do with Vanilla, unless Blizz decides to add microtransactions to it, which I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
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    tried for a 4th time to play retail WoW again and found a class that I like to play

    90 dwarf hunter I had, specced Beast Mastery and queued random bg's and it's decently fun.

    still hate the entirety of the rest of the game but mindlessly fighting in BG's is kind of fun because hunter gameplay is similar to the way it was in MoP.


    but does anybody else feel like the new sound effects of abilities don't have the same UMPH in them? I can cast many spells on my hunter but the sound effects are so light it makes me wonder if my shot even went off
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  30. #90
    Smile Motherfcuker! Bracket199's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NillaWafer View Post
    When Bracket calls everyone who wants to play vanilla an 'FA trying to cope with life', it sounds like he wants Vanilla to fail. I don't think you'd say that if you want the game to succeed, but maybe I'm wrong.

    But I'm not sure what misinformation is being spread? What Purfected has said about current retail isn't necessarily wrong. Grouping has been trivialized in Retail by things like LFR/LFD as well as by Blizzard's own sharding system which allows players to just show up at a 'group' quest and complete it. And in those cases that you do need to find a group, Blizzard allows you to just drop into a queue and play with five or however many others who you likely will never see again once the quest is complete.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to build a community in retail. I'm sure there are a lot of successful guilds and communities that are great. It's just that the game itself doesn't allow players to build those communities in the way that it used to.

    As for this mythic argument, we're comparing mechanics from games that are almost 15 years apart. I'm sure the Legion raid mechanics are a lot more complex and intricate than anything that even existed in vanilla, and I'm sure a lot of players find beating those mythic raids and challenges to be incredibly rewarding and fun. That doesn't mean there's no appeal to Vanilla raiding and that it's objectively bad because the mechanics are simpler. Those are subjective tastes that some players like and others don't.

    The same can be said of the classes. Some players like the homogenization of classes in Retail, where every dps, heal, or tank spec is relatively the same, but others like the niche aspects of Vanilla classes. It doesn't mean one is objectively worse or better than the other. It's just subjective taste, yet a lot of this subjectiveness is being passed as truth and evidence of superiority by one side or the other.

    edit: didn't mean to write a novel, just kind of happened lul.
    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    All good points. Personally I don't see why it has to be black and white. The perfect WoW would be one that continues to evolve raid mechanics and balance while also keeping RPG elements of the game.

    Porting everywhere, queuing up, stomping anything outside of mythic and getting showered with random loot isn't very RPG - and those are some of my biggest complaints with retail.
    I'll keep these comments together, as they both touch on the same thing.

    I will address it immediately - calling people who like Vanilla "FA who cope with life" is incorrect. That was targeted directly at Purfected after he immediately insults me about my reading comprehension because I didn't agree with him. So far, you and Cali have both provided enough of a discussion as to why you love Vanilla. If you re-read this thread, you will see the way you and Cali argue your points, and the way Purfected argues his - then you will understand where I'm coming from.

    I loved Vanilla. It was a great game. I'm not disputing that. Please read my comments about it again if you must.

    I look forward to Classic servers when they come. However, I have a feeling this will be much later because WoW is heading in the right direction. This is where the discussion is going, but it turned to me and .aeterna hating Classic, which isn't the case.

    The sharding concept has become an issue for a lot of people. I understand that it feels weird that you're no longer playing on one realm, but a collection of realms. But as a business, how do you address the lower populated servers? Way back, Blizzard discussed on their servers that they would have wanted to test the merging of servers - basically attach two of them together. But then that draws a few questions:
    1) Who maintains the characters name, or guild name?
    2) Will there be a fair balance of H/A population (should be easy for them to pull stats on this)
    3) What will the server name be called? People really enjoyed the realm they played on and it felt like "home" to them.

    Blizzard did "sharding" because these lower populated realms were getting affected, and they weren't filling up. Their way of trying to help was free character transfers, which only handful of people moved. People would say things like "new players should roll on low pop realms" or "my realm is full, don't roll here". But the problem was how established a server was. Players didn't want to play with nobody on the game, which would prompt them to quit.

    Blizzard also made LFD for the convenience of finding groups. They didn't want players to sit there and spam /2 for groups all the time, or spam their guild for members. How does a new player find a group if they only have 1 hour to play? It may take you 2-3 hours - start to finish - to finding a group, getting to the dungeon, and completing the dungeon. A newer player may not have the commitment and will potentially quit.

    I understand where you're coming from with the "you don't meet the players anymore", which is unfortunate. But it's worse for Blizzard to lose paying customers because they cannot find groups, period.

    LFR was made because people weren't getting to see the content of the game. Basically in Vanilla you had to gear up just to get to MC. You weren't allowed to walk in with greens unless your guild allowed that. Even if they did, you had to follow their schedule. Blizzard created a system that allows casuals to see content in all of what it is, but then also got a few gear pieces as well. LFR even helps low geared people start preparing for higher content as well.

    The only thing that confuses me is why LFR affects so many players personally? I use LFR to help gear my characters, and then I usually move to Normal/Heroic content. I'm happy with Heroic raids as the content is difficult enough that I can enjoy, but not difficult enough where I need to coordinate and research fights. I usually will do Mythics raids when I'm overgeared. In Legion, I only did Emerald Nightmare (first raid) after we were preparing for BfA, and that's only because most groups were running that due to gear.

    I also dislike the homogenization of our classes. I preferred playing Priest even in MoP than I do now. But the only reason they had to do this was so that groups aren't forced to bring a class, but can bring the player instead. I remember doing Naxx in Wrath, and was needed because I can MC one of the fights. However, if I had to leave for any reason, they needed another priest. Blizzard wanted to go away from that.

    The one thing I will agree with that put Vanilla, BC, and Wrath (at the start) in a separate category was the community you had to build on a realm. The leveling, groups, and raids definitely made people more connected. It was slightly more forced because you needed it (this would be no different than being asked to a team lunch at work), but it helps create those bonds. As a business, Blizzard needed to protect their larger playerbase - the casuals.

    You did address excellent points though.

    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    Casuals are the backbone of the game, so if they're in queues, in the sky, or class halls, they're not socializing in the game world, forming groups manually, questing and traveling together - and the culture of the game takes a nose dive.

    I'm a dead on casual and can still see that faceroll queue up content is detrimental to the game because it decreases motivation for anyone not progression raiding. You can check my armory, not a single boss killed outside of LFR. It's trash man.

    Convenience has taken precedence over everything in this game and it's worse for it.
    If you want more of a challenge, why not leave LFR and do Normal/Heroic, or even Mythic? It sounds like you're happy to just see content, but felt it was too easy and wish it were harder. LFR wasn't intended to gear and be done with the game, but just a mere stepping stone. That's how raiding works.

    If convenience wasn't good for the game, then they wouldn't have done it, and this game would be back to it's roots that was Vanilla/BC. As .aeterna said, MMO's aren't the "in game" anymore. It was back then, and MOBA's were also the big feature, but now it moved to FPS battle-royale. People who enjoy MMO's are the one's that want to play open-world, but have more convenience.

    We also have to note, that Vanilla was almost 14 years ago. At that point, some of us were in High school, if not College. In that regard, your life was a lot more different. If the average gamer is nearly 30 (in general, not just WoW), then they need to cater to their lifestyle.

    Originally Posted by Purfected View Post
    maybe it's a concern for people because they are reasons for why they think the game sucks for them now?

    by the way, WoW has been dieing ever since they started casualizing the game


    by the way the most fun I had during WoW was in TBC when I was a casual. making a game casual friendly doesn't mean the game becomes more fun automatically.
    They didn't make the game easier because it was hard, they made it more convenient for people to play.
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