Should I expect to gain strength faster on a bigger surplus?

[blue4123]

If I bulk at a higher surplus, albeit the increased fat gain, should I expect to get stronger faster? For example, 1000 surplus vs. 500 vs 300.

[Vandeman17]

Nope. Your body can only do so much and use so many calories, hence why it is recommended to be in that 300 calories or so over tdee to minimize fat gain

[Mikeez0]

Depending on a person. Someone could be super active after having extra calories while someone is going to sleep all day after a huge meal

[Plateauplower]

If I bulk at a higher surplus, albeit the increased fat gain, should I expect to get stronger faster? For example, 1000 surplus vs. 500 vs 300.

Yes. Although it may be at the expense of overall health, and definitely body composition.

[jhhutchison]

If I bulk at a higher surplus, albeit the increased fat gain, should I expect to get stronger faster? For example, 1000 surplus vs. 500 vs 300.

In my experience when i allow frequent cheat days my strength tends to go through the roof. It is common knowledge you cant gain more than 0.5lbs of lean mass a week naturally though at best. naturally. I suspect it is due to the refeed of glycogen that i notice great strength from cheat days..

[TheGymJim]

Yes. Although it may be at the expense of overall health, and definitely body composition.

This. And also, there's a limit.

You may well gain more muscle and increase strength faster on a 500kcal surplus than a 300kcal surplus, and you'll just have to cut a bit longer; but going from 500 to 1000kcal surplus is probably not going to add much more strength, and will make you fat.

Law of diminishing returns.

Conversely, though, when cutting, it's actually a pretty linear graph in terms of increased deficit = increased fat loss loss and increased deficit = increased muscle loss (although at a much slower rate)

Until you get to extreme caloric deficits and you start actually starving to death, at which points it goes wonky.

[Plateauplower]

This. And also, there's a limit.

You may well gain more muscle and increase strength faster on a 500kcal surplus than a 300kcal surplus, and you'll just have to cut a bit longer; but going from 500 to 1000kcal surplus is probably not going to add much more strength, and will make you fat.

Law of diminishing returns.

Conversely, though, when cutting, it's actually a pretty linear graph in terms of increased deficit = increased fat loss loss and increased deficit = increased muscle loss (although at a much slower rate)

Until you get to extreme caloric deficits and you start actually starving to death, at which points it goes wonky.

When I am saying "stronger" I am simply referring to the ability to move weight. Sometimes leverages are better being fatter up to a certain point. So in some cases just increasing ones mass (and not even considering the ratio of fat mass and lean mass) someone would get stronger or be able to move more weight by simply increasing their body mass. Certainly not a goal for anyone that wants to have some aesthetics to go along with the ability to waddle up to a rack and do a heavy squat or tow a car with your teeth .

[TheGymJim]

When I am saying "stronger" I am simply referring to the ability to move weight. Sometimes leverages are better being fatter up to a certain point. So in some cases just increasing ones mass (and not even considering the ratio of fat mass and lean mass) someone would get stronger or be able to move more weight by simply increasing their body mass. Certainly not a goal for anyone that wants to have some aesthetics to go along with the ability to waddle up to a rack and do a heavy squat or tow a car with your teeth .

You will also get actually stronger and build more muscle, but past a certain level of surplus, the amount of fat you have to gain for that 1% extra muscle/strength just becomes completely not worth it lol

[Plateauplower]

You will also get actually stronger and build more muscle, but past a certain level of surplus, the amount of fat you have to gain for that 1% extra muscle/strength just becomes completely not worth it lol

Yep. Ive done a dreamer bulk or two . I was hoping that the ratio of strength output on a lb/lb basis would increase as I got leaner, but I'm actually stronger lb/lb at a higher body fat percentage, which apparently is not uncommon. There is a limit though, to total weight moved and fatness. Eventually you get too fat for good leverages, Ive never taken a surplus THAT far yet where my belly prevents proper deadlift form

[ironwill2008]

If I bulk at a higher surplus, albeit the increased fat gain, should I expect to get stronger faster? For example, 1000 surplus vs. 500 vs 300.

It would be great if it worked that way, but basic human physiology dictates that it's not possible to naturally build more than 2 pounds of pure muscle mass per month---and that's only for a beginner who's doing everything correctly all the time (not a scenario often seen in posts on this site, btw). And of course, any additional weight gained during that month is going to be fat (along with some water weight).