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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    Well, what you must understand that not everyone is the same. I can eat a specific meal for breakfast clocking in at 500 kcal and not be hungry at all for 24 hours. Does that mean I shouldn't eat?
    .
    Confused by this... what do you mean?
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Confused by this... what do you mean?
    Sorry, it was rhetorical. Let me try again.


    I can wake up feeling great and energetic like you did today. Eat a meal and not get hungry for hours, sometimes even 24 hours. Does this mean I shouldn't eat because I'm not physically hungry or should I eat and take in my daily calorie allotment to maintain a healthy body?
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  3. #63
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    Sorry, it was rhetorical. Let me try again.


    I can wake up feeling great and energetic like you did today. Eat a meal and not get hungry for hours, sometimes even 24 hours. Does this mean I shouldn't eat because I'm not physically hungry or should I eat and take in my daily calorie allotment to maintain a healthy body?
    That's my point though: having a calorie 'allotment' goes against what I'm trying to do here by eating in a way that feels good and natural...

    I don't believe stuffing food into my body if i'm genuinely not hungry is a 'normal' thing to do in terms of trying to be more in-tune with my body and what it needs/wants.
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  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    That's my point though: having a calorie 'allotment' goes against what I'm trying to do here by eating in a way that feels good and natural...

    I don't believe stuffing food into my body if i'm genuinely not hungry is a 'normal' thing to do in terms of trying to be more in-tune with my body and what it needs/wants.
    Yeah, but you're missing the point of my post. Don't focus on an allotment in your case. You want to eat but don't feel hungry and don't eat as a result leading to a repeat of the situation. I get where you're coming from, albeit from an another angle. There have been times where I've had a large portion of red meat (steak) and haven't felt a bit hungry in almost 48 hours. It doesn't mean I'm going to follow the age-old adage of not eating because I'm not physically hungry. I wouldn't feel guilty about eating when I wasn't hungry in that event.

    I guess in a way it's like someone grilling and eating 12 hot dogs with buns and condiments, a steak, grilled cheese, cake or cheesecake and ice cream all in a short period of time and then falling ill and not wanting to throw up because "it's such a waste," then telling themselves they'll never do it again, only to do it nearly every day to every other day for a week to a few weeks at a time, and then they go back to eating "normally."

    And no matter what they tell themselves internally, they'll still keep falling off the wagon. And they'll forever hate themselves for it, and no help they sought helped them out. At all. Finito.
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    Yeah, but you're missing the point of my post. Don't focus on an allotment in your case. You want to eat but don't feel hungry and don't eat as a result leading to a repeat of the situation. I get where you're coming from, albeit from an another angle. There have been times where I've had a large portion of red meat (steak) and haven't felt a bit hungry in almost 48 hours. It doesn't mean I'm going to follow the age-old adage of not eating because I'm not physically hungry. I wouldn't feel guilty about eating when I wasn't hungry in that event.

    I guess in a way it's like someone grilling and eating 12 hot dogs with buns and condiments, a steak, grilled cheese, cake or cheesecake and ice cream all in a short period of time and then falling ill and not wanting to throw up because "it's such a waste," then telling themselves they'll never do it again, only to do it nearly every day to every other day for a week to a few weeks at a time, and then they go back to eating "normally."
    That's not quite what I'm getting at here....

    There is zero guilt if I eat something without hunger. My point is, I don't feel a desire to eat because I'm not hungry, nor am I thinking about food from a state of desire...

    Rather, I am recalling what I have eaten (per this thread's purpose) and realizing that 'hmm.. i'm pretty damn sure I burned and need more than that... so... why don't I want food right now?'.

    Would I feel BAD mentally about forcing in food? Of course not...

    Would I feel that it goes against what I'm trying to do in a sense because it contradicts my venture? Yea, kind of...

    Again i'm not saying I won't feel hungry in like 10 minutes, i'm just kind of surprised and trying to jungle many factors... being as lean and thin and light as I am, most people complain about constant hunger because of low leptin, etc, and yet I tackled today like a boss and felt awesome the whole time... just seems weird.
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    Yeah. I guess you're right.
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  7. #67
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    well certainly making up for lost time today... by my estimate, already over 3k, so i'm happy.

    Also won my golf match despite only getting 2 hours of crap sleep... pretty awesome
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    being as lean and thin and light as I am, most people complain about constant hunger because of low leptin, etc, and yet I tackled today like a boss and felt awesome the whole time... just seems weird.
    This isn't true in your context. Other people are constantly hungry at your body fat percentage because they temporarily maintain it. You've been starving yourself chronically, so your body's signals aren't going to be as strong. The body wants to maintain homeostasis. You've been restricting yourself and hovering around the same weight for a long time now due to your illness, so of course you're not as hungry as say a IFBB pro who temporarily dieted down for a competition. You've been hungry long enough that you're numb to it. Thinking your hunger cues at this weight are accurate is like thinking someone suffering from heat stroke can adequately gauge how much water they need. When I was in the hospital for my eating disorder, few of us were ever hungry. It was extremely painful and sickening in fact to eat as much as I needed to. I ONLY recovered my hunger cues and the ability to eat intuitively once I recovered some weight. The more weight I gained, the hungrier I became and I didn't want to go back to eating less, but I had to push myself to slight discomfort to reach that point. Furthermore, testosterone & other hormones that are down-regulated due to starvation make you hungrier but there's a catch-22: you gotta eat more to wanna eat more. Outside of all that, I tend to be hungrier on my rest days because cardio blunts my appetite & so do many others: https://www.shape.com/healthy-eating...y-on-rest-days. Still, the fact remains that your intuitive eating will most likely leave you at your current weight that you've been maintaining for months on end because your body craves homeostasis & isn't going to suddenly give you proper hunger and fullness cues when you've done this for as long as you have. I strongly urge you to set some sort of caloric minimum lest you risk continuing to piss into the wind. The gains that you'll feel in terms of energy and wellbeing, over the long haul (& it takes awhile trust me) are more than worth the discomfort.
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  9. #69
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    This isn't true in your context. Other people are constantly hungry at your body fat percentage because they temporarily maintain it. You've been starving yourself chronically, so your body's signals aren't going to be as strong. The body wants to maintain homeostasis. You've been restricting yourself and hovering around the same weight for a long time now due to your illness, so of course you're not as hungry as say a IFBB pro who temporarily dieted down for a competition. You've been hungry long enough that you're numb to it. Thinking your hunger cues at this weight are accurate is like thinking someone suffering from heat stroke can adequately gauge how much water they need. When I was in the hospital for my eating disorder, few of us were ever hungry. It was extremely painful and sickening in fact to eat as much as I needed to. I ONLY recovered my hunger cues and the ability to eat intuitively once I recovered some weight. The more weight I gained, the hungrier I became and I didn't want to go back to eating less, but I had to push myself to slight discomfort to reach that point. Furthermore, testosterone & other hormones that are down-regulated due to starvation make you hungrier but there's a catch-22: you gotta eat more to wanna eat more. Outside of all that, I tend to be hungrier on my rest days because cardio blunts my appetite & so do many others: https://www.shape.com/healthy-eating...y-on-rest-days. Still, the fact remains that your intuitive eating will most likely leave you at your current weight that you've been maintaining for months on end because your body craves homeostasis & isn't going to suddenly give you proper hunger and fullness cues when you've done this for as long as you have. I strongly urge you to set some sort of caloric minimum lest you risk continuing to piss into the wind. The gains that you'll feel in terms of energy and wellbeing, over the long haul (& it takes awhile trust me) are more than worth the discomfort.
    very much appreciated man, and good to see you here. I will definitely take this advice and see how I might apply it right now.

    Though I'm not sure about what # to set, I imagine a minimum of 3k on non-golfing days and more like 3.5k on golfing days would be a good start. Feedback always appreciated.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 07-21-2018 at 09:17 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Good luck, Adam!

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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Good luck, Adam!

    Cheers,

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    Thanks Mos!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    well certainly making up for lost time today... by my estimate, already over 3k, so i'm happy.

    Also won my golf match despite only getting 2 hours of crap sleep... pretty awesome
    Totally pulling this from my ass, but I find with little to no sleep, I have laser focus because I care about is being focused and awake, and push everything out of my mind. Things that would invade my mind if I was well rested. I'll even do chores I don't like to do but have to, like doing laundry, ironing, folding and putting away. Cleaning things I hate cleaning. Or being at work and just flying through paperwork or signing off on stuff and going through the material like a bullet train. Though then I feel like crap for a week after the fact. Like a strong hangover.
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    Totally pulling this from my ass, but I find with little to no sleep, I have laser focus because I care about is being focused and awake, and push everything out of my mind. Things that would invade my mind if I was well rested. I'll even do chores I don't like to do but have to, like doing laundry, ironing, folding and putting away. Cleaning things I hate cleaning. Or being at work and just flying through paperwork or signing off on stuff and going through the material like a bullet train. Though then I feel like crap for a week after the fact. Like a strong hangover.
    Definitely caught me off guard... NO idea why. But hey, I ain't complainin.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Definitely caught me off guard... NO idea why. But hey, I ain't complainin.
    And golfing under nice weather. People golf under triple digits here and I'm thinking they're nutts.
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    Upper body workout went well yesterday.

    Added a couple reps on Chins and now I’m going to add weight next week as I was able to do 4 sets of 8 with body weight alone.

    Also, was very pleased with my ability to not do any activity outside of my lifting: felt the urge to do cardio, but didn’t do it. Napped instead.

    I loosely tracked my calories and.... got 3.7k

    Happy with that number, it did involve eating a bit behind fullness tho, but I picked up some ‘easy’ calories in the form of peanut butter and granola which I can eat without issue.
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    Apple Fritters .. Godsend ..

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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Apple Fritters .. Godsend ..

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    Oh I haven’t had one of those in a while! I’m usually a cake donut guy! Might have to try
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    Lower Body Pull session was pretty solid

    Added a rep to my deadlifts... definitely adding 10lb next session... no doubt.

    Post workout meal I had 2 breakfast burritos (home made), bunch of veggies with cheese, and some chocolate milk.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Lower Body Pull session was pretty solid

    Added a rep to my deadlifts... definitely adding 10lb next session... no doubt.

    Post workout meal I had 2 breakfast burritos (home made), bunch of veggies with cheese, and some chocolate milk.
    I bet it was.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post

    Added a rep to my deadlifts... definitely adding 10lb next session... no doubt.
    Awesome job. One that amazes me when it comes to lifting is that you can add maybe 10 or 15 lb (if your gym's got 2.5 lb plates) and you think you can do it but your body refuses to move the weight. That extra 10 or 15 lb makes a huge or yoooge (if you want to imagine the idiot in chief's voice) difference. I remember getting back into the gym years ago, long before my accident, and thinking it didn't matter until I tried it out. Or if you can get it moving, you have issues completing the movement.

    And then sometimes you just have this surge of power and inner happiness and you somehow PR with an extra 50-70 lb but won't get close to it for a long time. Human body is really weird.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    Awesome job. One that amazes me when it comes to lifting is that you can add maybe 10 or 15 lb (if your gym's got 2.5 lb plates) and you think you can do it but your body refuses to move the weight. That extra 10 or 15 lb makes a huge or yoooge (if you want to imagine the idiot in chief's voice) difference. I remember getting back into the gym years ago, long before my accident, and thinking it didn't matter until I tried it out. Or if you can get it moving, you have issues completing the movement.

    And then sometimes you just have this surge of power and inner happiness and you somehow PR with an extra 50-70 lb but won't get close to it for a long time. Human body is really weird.
    I've had that happen before plenty of times. I've also hit PR's when I felt like total crap.... the irony is real.

    In this case, I guess maybe it's mental as well as diet-related because I'm eating a lot of carbs at the moment and trying to 'spill over' on purpose.

    My stomach kind of feel like a balloon but, I guess that will pass with time. I've been lowering my veggie/fiber intake which seems to help and changing more into high fat options.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Lower Body Pull session was pretty solid

    Added a rep to my deadlifts... definitely adding 10lb next session... no doubt.

    Post workout meal I had 2 breakfast burritos (home made), bunch of veggies with cheese, and some chocolate milk.
    Congrats my friend !
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I've had that happen before plenty of times. I've also hit PR's when I felt like total crap.... the irony is real.

    In this case, I guess maybe it's mental as well as diet-related because I'm eating a lot of carbs at the moment and trying to 'spill over' on purpose.

    My stomach kind of feel like a balloon but, I guess that will pass with time. I've been lowering my veggie/fiber intake which seems to help and changing more into high fat options.
    Haha yeah. I remember one incident last year where I was trying PR on deadlifts. I was pumped up and blaring music into my earbuds.. enough to cause an ENT to be concerned. I set everything up after the warmups and kept going halfway before having to bail. After about the fourth time in a 30 minute period trying to rest and catch my breath, I just let out a load of expletives and yelled at the bar. When I looked up I saw people were looking at me in the mirror. I was pretty embarrassed. lol It was a nice change from someone doing their usual warrior scream or whatever it's called.

    I've never figured it out if it was diet, sleep or just sitting around. Just prior to my accident I'd go to the gym after being awake for 3-4 hours and I found I was much stronger than when I woke up and headed straight, food or no food. Now that I'm older, I find I'm stronger when I wake up as opposed to when I wait a few hours. Also, I feel stupid for asking, but what do you mean by spill over?

    In relation to my conversation with you, I don't experience bloating but excess dairy causes that bloating and well, farting for hours. Sometimes upwards of 48 hours. I think I have some lactose intolerance but it's so mild. Burping helps, too.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I've had that happen before plenty of times. I've also hit PR's when I felt like total crap.... the irony is real.

    In this case, I guess maybe it's mental as well as diet-related because I'm eating a lot of carbs at the moment and trying to 'spill over' on purpose.

    My stomach kind of feel like a balloon but, I guess that will pass with time. I've been lowering my veggie/fiber intake which seems to help and changing more into high fat options.
    I swear I always hit PRs on the days I feel the most chitty whether it be a sickness, fatigue, or just a general blah feeling. I also always have my best lifts when I feel “spilled over” from carbs the day before. & I’ve had horrible bloat for years, particularly in the early days of my recovery, & the first thing I do in response to extra bloat is reduce my fiber intake. It sucks because I actually genuinely prefer a lot of fiber rich foods to the alternative, but it’s better than being unable to breathe from gas pains.
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    I've found being pissed off to be a great motivator and push me to levels I didn't know were possible. Mostly thanks to adrenaline.
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    I swear I always hit PRs on the days I feel the most chitty whether it be a sickness, fatigue, or just a general blah feeling. I also always have my best lifts when I feel “spilled over” from carbs the day before. & I’ve had horrible bloat for years, particularly in the early days of my recovery, & the first thing I do in response to extra bloat is reduce my fiber intake. It sucks because I actually genuinely prefer a lot of fiber rich foods to the alternative, but it’s better than being unable to breathe from gas pains.
    A-f*ckin-men to this dude.

    I'm sure once i'm weight-restored closer to my 'settling point' I will get that spilled over strong feeling I used to get... oh man I miss that feeling... but for right now, I have a suspicion that due to my leanness and bodyweight my body just partitions nutrients and calories in an abnormal way; ie - any extra energy is being used for repairing vital damage and thus the muscle-building process is just not a priority, which is also why I have eating way more calories/carbs near my workouts to make 100% sure I never exercise/lift without a surplus of on-tap calories.

    Also, x10000 on the fiber comment: I even feel this may be related to the changes in gut permeability/absorption seen in people recovering from restrictive ED's... your body is fighting for energy calorie it can get, so if all this bound fiber/protein/etc is in the way, of COURSE things are going to slow down, maintain water, you name it. Again, it comes down to GAINING weight, and making sure that there is a CONSTANT surplus. People who are at a reasonable weight and BF don't need to deal so much with this because they have some means of reserves on hand... I do not... so my body is fighting to create that backup system to prevent me from dying.

    One thing I have found is that simply increasing fat intake in place of protein and choosing sources of carbs I can digest easily reduces the issue. But I totally agree... I love higher-fiber carbs largely for texture, flavor, and just overall food options... but yeah, can't win them all

    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    I've found being pissed off to be a great motivator and push me to levels I didn't know were possible. Mostly thanks to adrenaline.
    This is why I always punch my neighbors dog before a squat session.

    Such a bitch.

    The dog, too.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Surfing Chia Seed Dude SOJA's Avatar
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    The same neighbor who invites you for coffee and has an obvious thing for you? Or was that before you moved?
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    The same neighbor who invites you for coffee and has an obvious thing for you? Or was that before you moved?
    I don't wanna talk about it. We're not on good terms, she and I
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Well damn...

    Upper body bench/row focus today...

    every main lift is up 5%.... in a week.

    intra-workout carbs and all these calories are doing the trick. Shyt felt light as hell... very pleased
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Must have transferred to me. Struggled with everything this morning.
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