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  1. #1
    Registered User adamgentile's Avatar
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    Pre-workouts - just a big scam?

    After a 15+ year hiatus off from lifting (I turned into a runner for many years, marathon, ultra. etc.) now I'm back to lifting and couldn't be happier, one thing I noticed when I started to get familiar with supplements again, was the amount of useless stuff out there. Back in 20's I grabbed a bottle of water. Now at 47 my pre-workout is still water. This pre-workout stuff seems like a big deal now, but in my opinion not needed. I was listening to a recent interview from Frank Zane, and he said all the big name guys during his era, even Arnold, would drink water when working out and that was it.

    I think once you start to take a pre-workout, you are mentally sucked in that you need to have it all the time when working out. Any older dudes out there that don't mess with a pre-workout.
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  2. #2
    Registered User d2mini's Avatar
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    Guess it depends what you want out of it.
    My main reason for drinking Legion Pulse is because I work out first thing in the morning at home. I need the caffeine/energy and I'm not going to drink hot coffee, no time.
    And the stuff works in this regard, that's for sure.
    Any other "benefits" it may have us purely bonus.
    Drinking water when working out is always a good idea, regardless of pre or not.
    -dennis
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  3. #3
    Registered User Cantplankwell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by d2mini View Post
    I work out first thing in the morning at home. I need the caffeine/energy and I'm not going to drink hot coffee, no time.
    ?why? Do you drink coffee otherwise?
    Please record my time/reps if I pass out
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    Registered User tblodg15's Avatar
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    I am 50 years old and got back into lifting seriously 7 months ago after not lifting since high school. I work out after work and see no reason to take any pre-workout supplements. My pre-workout is to eat a bannana before I leave work and maybe some greek yogurt along with lots of water LOL. My energy and pumps during my workout are great so that's why I see no need for me personally.
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  5. #5
    Registered User d2mini's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    ?why? Do you drink coffee otherwise?
    Why what?
    -dennis
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  6. #6
    Clearly Irrational blue9steel's Avatar
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    There is a lot of money in supplements but frankly very little scientific evidence for most of them. Here is my standard:

    At least three in vivo human studies by different researchers showing benefit and statistical significance (studies with a declared conflict of interest only count for half)

    By the time you're done with that there isn't a whole lot left.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    Old school here.
    A couple cups of coffee if i train in the morning.
    Two benefits for me,one the warm coffee helps clear my system(poop)so i feel better when getting started and two the mild caffeine helps stimulate the nervous system at the start of training.
    It's up to you to carry it on after you start but once i get going there's no stopping until the session is completed.
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    Registered User startingat56's Avatar
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    I have only used a pre for leg day and back day, but recently have cut the amount in half

    I find after a certain amount of caffeine, my focus is gone not enhanced, and my best workouts are with little or no pre

    Really, your pre should be your warm up

    BUT

    I get it that pros need any and all advantages, and each has their own recipe
    I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Cantplankwell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by d2mini View Post
    Why what?
    You dont drink coffee...
    or you do,.....just you would never drink it before an early morning work out?
    Please record my time/reps if I pass out
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  10. #10
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    After a 15+ year hiatus off from lifting (I turned into a runner for many years, marathon, ultra. etc.) now I'm back to lifting and couldn't be happier, one thing I noticed when I started to get familiar with supplements again, was the amount of useless stuff out there. Back in 20's I grabbed a bottle of water. Now at 47 my pre-workout is still water. This pre-workout stuff seems like a big deal now, but in my opinion not needed. I was listening to a recent interview from Frank Zane, and he said all the big name guys during his era, even Arnold, would drink water when working out and that was it.

    I think once you start to take a pre-workout, you are mentally sucked in that you need to have it all the time when working out.






    Any older dudes out there that don't mess with a pre-workout.
    Mine is a cup of coffee along with a strong desire to improve over my previous training session in some way.


    The coffee is optional.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

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  11. #11
    Registered User d2mini's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    You dont drink coffee...
    or you do,.....just you would never drink it before an early morning work out?
    I wake at 5am, throw on some clothes, drink the room temp pre-workout (mixed up the night before), use the facilities and I'm in the gym by 5:15.
    I might have coffee with breakfast after my workout, but no time to sip a hot drink before my workout.
    Without the caffeine shot I'm walking in there like a zombie. lol
    And it comes in powder form so I can dial it in to just the right amount.
    -dennis
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  12. #12
    Registered User Luclin999's Avatar
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    I agree with the others that it's mostly a caffeine jolt to get you "energized" more than anything else.

    I mean some may also have a bit of creatine and some amino acids that can't really "hurt" to be taken before a workout but aren't really necessary either.
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  13. #13
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    I swear this topic comes up once a month...and it's always the same, someone trying to convince the world that pre-workouts are an unnecessary hyped up waste of money.

    The primary ingredient in a pre-workout is caffeine. Does caffeine wake you up a bit, give you a little burst of energy, make you feel more peppy? Yes!

    If that is something that gives a person an edge when they go to train, they don't mind paying whatever price they pay (which isn't any more than a sports drink or most cups of coffee or a soda), and they enjoy it (for the flavor, as a way to flavor the water they drink to hydrate, or some other physiological or some psychological boost), who the hell can justify telling them it's "useless" or a waste of money, or stupid, or unnecessary? Who can be so pretentious as to say their way is better?...and who give a fuk what Arnold did (hint: water wasn't the secret ingredient to his successful workouts).

    I enjoy my first thing in the morning pre-workout. It clears out any remaining cobwebs (although I am a morning person), it helps to clear my bowels for the morning workout, and there is something in one of the many ingredients that makes me feel a little sharper, focused, and excited to hit the iron. It costs me, like 75 cents a serving (Nutricost) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1?ie=UTF8&th=1

    So yeah...if you don't want to use one...DON'T! I don't remember the supplement police forcing anyone to buy them.

    Geesh
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  14. #14
    Has new batteries! DuracellBunny's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the whole idea, especially for older lifters.

    Take a PWO, containing a stimulant, that raises your blood pressure, right before engaging in an activity that further raises your blood pressure........
    Screw nature; my body will do what I DAMN WELL tell it to do!

    The only dangerous thing about an exercise is the person doing it.

    They had the technology to rebuild me. They made me better, stronger, faster......
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  15. #15
    Registered User Cantplankwell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by d2mini View Post
    I wake at 5am, throw on some clothes, drink the room temp pre-workout (mixed up the night before), use the facilities and I'm in the gym by 5:15.
    I might have coffee with breakfast after my workout, but no time to sip a hot drink before my workout.
    Without the caffeine shot I'm walking in there like a zombie. lol
    And it comes in powder form so I can dial it in to just the right amount.

    Now I understand, like the others I have to have my coffee for the same reasons they do.....however one cup on lifting days ...2 cups on non lifting days...my reasons; I don't want the extra BP bump 2 might have when I am lifting. I work out in my garage in cold temps, so a hot beverage is a good morale booster on those mornings.
    Please record my time/reps if I pass out
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  16. #16
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    I'll start by saying I love a PWO. I never used any until I turned, oh, around 46 and started naturally slowing down.
    I will say, once you try pre, you won't disagree.

    To those who think they are placebo, take a scoop of White Flash, C4, Dyamatize PRE, Nutrex Outlift etc... and come tell me it was all in your head.
    I'm not promoting them, nor do I care if anyone else uses them or not; but they definitely help me have far, far better, more intense workouts.

    Oh, and not all pwo raise blood pressure. In fact, most have vasodilators in them which actually reduce bp.
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    I use a 5 hour energy shot for my pre workout, and a core power protein drink with creatine added for after.

    I tried a few real pre drinks and they just upset my tummy.

    I usually workout early in the morning so the caffeine helps get me going.
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  18. #18
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    I train early morning. Drink coffee as a pre workout. Sometimes have some pre workout intra workout just to keep my caffeine levels in the range I like them. Caffeine is a powerful performance enhancer. Have not ded yet.
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    I trained for years never having used a pre workout. On many occasions I’d feel tired, get dressed for the gym and either change my mind or turn up and have a short uneffective session once there.

    Now, as soon as I take a scoop of pre workout there’s no going back. Even if it’s mental, it ensures I actually get to the gym and it’s never a half hearted session once there. Mental or otherwise pre workout has had a huge effect on my training and physique.
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  20. #20
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    You can't buy awesome in a plastic tub for $35. Legit awesome sauce would cost more than that.

    If a scoop of misc herbs, diet sweetener, and caffeine is something that makes you believe in yourself, I just question why you don't hold that belief already?


    Originally Posted by smokinal View Post
    Take a scoop of White Flash, C4, Dyamatize PRE, Nutrex Outlift etc... and come tell me it was all in your head

    OK, It's probably mostly in your head. I had some decent results with citruline malate, other than that unless someone is a cafiene lightweight I would have to yawn. My typical AM coffee has more caffeine than most of those and it's not like betaine and tyrosine are going to make lightning shoot out of my fingertips either.

    I do recognize some folks are caffeine lightweights, but they would probably get freaky on 1/2 a caffeine tablet.
    Last edited by EjnarKolinkar; 06-23-2018 at 01:36 AM.
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    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    My current typical intra wo consists of 10g of some generic muscle tech VaporX5 (with whatever underdosed things that has, other than the additional 200mg caffeine on top of my coffee pre wo ritual), 6g citruline malate, 5g creapure creatine, 4g beta alanine, 1g powdered Cissus, 7g Xtend BCAAs for flavor and cause they make me less hungry and able to get from the gym to my first meal without stopping to eat roadkill. Xtend tastes awesome and most of the stuff was free with points except the Cissus which was reasonable and was trying it for a shoulder issue.

    Bottom line is pre wo is pretty low on the magnitude of important things as compared to actual training, diet, and recovery. So do whatever you want. If you get placebo gains and a mental boost from a pre wo it’s probanly worth the 50 cents / session. If you train just as effectively without then don’t. I don’t think my intra wo drink makes a big difference, but I’ve gone without it too and have personally noticed a difference in stamina, focus and intensity training early mornings. YMMV.
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    Registered User d2mini's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EjnarKolinkar View Post
    You can't buy awesome in a plastic tub for $35. Legit awesome sauce would cost more than that.

    If a scoop of misc herbs, diet sweetener, and caffeine is something that makes you believe in yourself, I just question why you don't hold that belief already?





    OK, It's probably mostly in your head. I had some decent results with citruline malate, other than that unless someone is a cafiene lightweight I would have to yawn. My typical AM coffee has more caffeine than most of those and it's not like betaine and tyrosine are going to make lightning shoot out of my fingertips either.

    I do recognize some folks are caffeine lightweights, but they would probably get freaky on 1/2 a caffeine tablet.
    Mine has about 350 mg of caffeine per serving which is the same as a starbucks grande coffee. Except instead of sipped over time, it's chugged in a few seconds.
    Also has 350 mg of L-theanine which also helps improve mood and focus when combined with caffeine.
    So as stated earlier, it removes the cobwebs from just waking up, improves mood, and gets me ready to lift some heavy sheit. I don't even take a full serving.
    No one is talking about "getting freaky" or magically improving your PR. Just getting into the gym, being mentally alert and focused, and getting through your workout like a boss.

    If you're workout time or whatever else doesn't require a little boost, awesome. Good for you.

    But yeah, you actually can buy awesome.
    -dennis
    my "GYM IN A SHED" build thread
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  23. #23
    Registered User adamgentile's Avatar
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    I have a gym setup in my garage, so I wake up at 5:00am, get dressed and stroll to the garage. Stimulants (too much caffeine) mess with my heart to much, I'm not a big caffeine person. I always train at 5:00am during the work day and it's always on an empty stomach. Maybe the years of running on an empty stomach conditioned me.
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    Registered User grubman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    I have a gym setup in my garage, so I wake up at 5:00am, get dressed and stroll to the garage. Stimulants (too much caffeine) mess with my heart to much, I'm not a big caffeine person. I always train at 5:00am during the work day and it's always on an empty stomach. Maybe the years of running on an empty stomach conditioned me.
    ...And I'm a total non-responder to Creatine. No size gain, no strength gain, no recovery benefits...based on my first hand personal experience...Creatine has absolutely no positive value. I think if I made a post about its worthlessness I'd get just a little bit of disagreement.
    BB.com used to be great...now it’s toxic. Very sad. Glad I could contribute and learn in the good days, but won’t come back.
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    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    I have a gym setup in my garage, so I wake up at 5:00am, get dressed and stroll to the garage. Stimulants (too much caffeine) mess with my heart to much, I'm not a big caffeine person. I always train at 5:00am during the work day and it's always on an empty stomach. Maybe the years of running on an empty stomach conditioned me.
    I always say try it out, it is cheap, and worse case you toss it($30). I go days without and some weeks i really need the help at 7:30 Pm. We are the same age and i just say play it by ear but do NOT overdo stimulants.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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    Originally Posted by grubman View Post
    ...And I'm a total non-responder to Creatine. No size gain, no strength gain, no recovery benefits...based on my first hand personal experience...Creatine has absolutely no positive value.



    I think if I made a post about its worthlessness I'd get just a little bit of disagreement.

    Probably about 75%.





    (25% of us are non-responders)
    No brain, no gain.

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    Registered User tblodg15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grubman View Post
    ...And I'm a total non-responder to Creatine. No size gain, no strength gain, no recovery benefits...based on my first hand personal experience...Creatine has absolutely no positive value. I think if I made a post about its worthlessness I'd get just a little bit of disagreement.
    Interesting, I started creatine 5 or 6 months ago and I can't tell if it is doing anything. So I am going to have to try going without it for a month or two to see if I can tell a difference.
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    Registered User grubman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    Interesting, I started creatine 5 or 6 months ago and I can't tell if it is doing anything. So I am going to have to try going without it for a month or two to see if I can tell a difference.
    I've tried it 4 times now. The first 3 times were in conjunction with other variables (newbie, "bulk", and "cut"). I didn't notice the benefits others claimed when I started or after stopping. I had to try it one more time while at a tiny surplus while doing a program I'd been on a while so I could isolate any change I could associate directly with the creatine...nothing.

    I don't know why? Perhaps I produce more of my own, maybe I already get enough in my normal diet for a guy my size? I'm not sure if any research has been done on the non-responders and the reasons why.

    Note: I've tried the various recommended ways of taking it. Pre and post, grape juice, dissolved in coffee, with dextrose for a post workout insulin surge, ect.
    BB.com used to be great...now it’s toxic. Very sad. Glad I could contribute and learn in the good days, but won’t come back.
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    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    What was the statistic on creatine supplementation? Struggling to find with Google, think it was ironwill maybe, who quoted 25% are non responders.

    I've tried it myself a couple of time and believe I'm in that category.

    Aren't most preworkout based on caffeine, beta alanine, BCAA and glucose (maybe taurine too) so not sure if the creatine is the most "helpful" ingredient anyway.

    I prefer a double espresso with 2 sugars myself, but I'm open minded that some people benefit with a bit of a caffeine/beta alanine wake up before/during training
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    About 10 years ago I went through a tub of pre-workout called AMPED only because I got it for free from winning a little contest here.

    Honestly, I liked it. But, I have not used any since and would not again, because IMO I do not like that much caffeine in my system from products other than coffee. I drink coffee and it takes the enjoyment out because it desensitizes the caffeine effects. Also, as Bunny says above, probably not great for the blood pressure.

    What is the point if you cannot use something long-term? The long-term effects from using 200mg or much more per serving, cannot have positive health benefits.

    I workout at 4:30AM and I do not use even coffee. I just warm up well and motivate myself.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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