Reply
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 118
  1. #61
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    Originally Posted by BustaCapp View Post
    I guess the quantum physicists should have come to misc for the explanation.
    titus is right though, the act of measuring does impact the system.

    fun fact, everything is a wave. a particle is a very short wavelength wave.
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

  2. #62
    Platinum Account Member NOTHINSPECIAL69's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2010
    Location: Canada
    Posts: 3,239
    Rep Power: 18215
    NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) NOTHINSPECIAL69 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    NOTHINSPECIAL69 is offline
    I read this a year or two ago, had a hard time grasping some of the concepts throughout but it was definitely something interesting to consider. Will re-read soon.


    10/03/13
    Reply With Quote

  3. #63
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    heres another idea to chew on. most of us are familiar with the equation E=mc^2 this is the relationship between rest mass and energy. what it means is that mass can be annihilated into pure electromagnetic energy, aka photons.

    and it was also observed in the lab that light was successful bound together to create subatomic particles.

    so, mass can be broken down into light, and light can be bound into mass. it seems logical to draw from this that the most basic building block of the universe is light.
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

  4. #64
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by FitSparky1 View Post
    plants receive sunlight and grow, do you deny that statement if no one is watching them?
    This depends entirely on your interpretation of quantum mechanics. If you accept Wigner/ Von Neumann's "Consciousness causes collapse" interpretation, which is somewhat solipsistic, then you cannot actually say the plant or the sunlight even exists there. If you detect that they grew, you localized it, and now it has collapsed to that state. Prior to that, its state was actually not defined sharply. The difference is really semantically if it's you who is required to detect the state or if objects are allowed to detect things.

    You can read more about this interesting thought experiment here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner%27s_friend

    A fun take on Schrodinger's cat where a conscious observer (your friend) is entangled with the system.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #65
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by 4ea View Post
    heres another idea to chew on. most of us are familiar with the equation E=mc^2 this is the relationship between rest mass and energy. what it means is that mass can be annihilated into pure electromagnetic energy, aka photons.

    and it was also observed in the lab that light was successful bound together to create subatomic particles.

    so, mass can be broken down into light, and light can be bound into mass. it seems logical to draw from this that the most basic building block of the universe is light.
    But who was unification energies? At higher energies, the fields are unified. It isn't photons, but some other particles that exist at those energies. Light is not the most basic building block of the universe. It's something way weirder. And time and space may emerge from some fundamental chit as well.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #66
    Banned FitSparky1's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2018
    Posts: 3,843
    Rep Power: 0
    FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    FitSparky1 is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    This depends entirely on your interpretation of quantum mechanics. If you accept Wigner/ Von Neumann's "Consciousness causes collapse" interpretation, which is somewhat solipsistic, then you cannot actually say the plant or the sunlight even exists there. If you detect that they grew, you localized it, and now it has collapsed to that state. Prior to that, its state was actually not defined sharply. The difference is really semantically if it's you who is required to detect the state or if objects are allowed to detect things.

    You can read more about this interesting thought experiment here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner%27s_friend

    A fun take on Schrodinger's cat where a conscious observer (your friend) is entangled with the system.
    i agree...
    Reply With Quote

  7. #67
    N = R * fp * ne * fl * fi tank2003's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: Mississippi, United States
    Posts: 31,502
    Rep Power: 291882
    tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) tank2003 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    tank2003 is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    Guys...the entire wave/particle debate is obsolete and has been for about 60 years now. People talk about fields or strings. And there is a duality between them. Regarding the quantum measurement problem, this is pretty much open to interpretation. Some say newer research in quantum decoherence resolves this problem. The least controversial picture to have in your head right now is that there are no "particles" or "waves" per se...there are "quantum fields". There is an "electron field" defined all over the universe. There is no way to tell "a particular electron" apart from any other "electron". What we detect as particles or waves are manifestations of these quantum fields.

    BTW OP's cliffs are basically, to a first approximation, true and valid.

    Most of the objects we think of as solid are not. The solidness is coming from electromagnetic interactions with the system. Measurement (interaction/detection) appears to localize or "collapse" wavefunctions. That means not detecting the "particle" will lead to it retaining its wavelike behavior, and it will diffract like any classical wave. By solid objects don't exist, OP means mass is not a continuum, filling the volume of space that we might think. Much of the atom is empty space, and the mass is concentrated sharply somewhere when detected. What we perceive as solid is simply the electromagnetic force pushing against us. Some more bizarre results from modern (now ancient and about 100 years old) physics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relati...f_simultaneity
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rietdi...utnam_argument
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E...gy_equivalence
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

    some more interestings aspects from more recent or current research:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewall_(physics)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_problem
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplituhedron
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon_asymmetry
    was about to summon you to chit all over this
    Originally Posted by FitSparky1 View Post
    i Concur...
    Fixed. Gotta sound like you understand it and all
    I am not a sexist because sexism is wrong and being wrong is for women
    Currently Reading: The Purge of Babylon
    Reply With Quote

  8. #68
    Banned FitSparky1's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2018
    Posts: 3,843
    Rep Power: 0
    FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) FitSparky1 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    FitSparky1 is offline
    Originally Posted by tank2003 View Post
    was about to summon you to chit all over this

    Fixed. Gotta sound like you understand it and all
    but i do. i argued Schrodinger's cat is based on semantics in high school to a smart guy thats doing his phd in stem right now (and dad was a schizophrenic).
    Reply With Quote

  9. #69
    bannable ironicinori's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2013
    Posts: 6,665
    Rep Power: 17572
    ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ironicinori is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    ironicinori is offline
    Originally Posted by BustaCapp View Post
    Some of you bovine mouth-breathers should do some research or watch some vids on this.

    Might put a fresh perspective on things..




    Cliffs:

    - Electron particles (the building blocks of all matter) only exist when we look at them.
    - When we are not looking at them they are waves.
    - Solid objects don't exist.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/reality...iment-confirms
    https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2...-universe.page
    https://www.collective-evolution.com...ing-is-energy/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implic...xplicate_order
    http://thespiritscience.net/2016/08/...rgy-particles/
    No your argument breaks down at the double slit experiment... Although, your post breaks down when you call readers "bovine" like that's some kind of high brow insult that only your enlightened intelligence can issue.


    I can only assume by the fact that you linked to Spirit Science that you are A. Trolling, or B. Getting your information from Youtube cartoons like "what the bleep do we know", which are about equivalent to Harry Potter for explaining natural phenomena. I'm no particle physicist, just read a lot of Feynman. But reading the arguments in this thread makes me feel like a got damn Einstein.

    And I could dive head first into this chitfest with real information but lettuce be real. It's not worth it, I'd rather search for musicals on Netflix and watch the first thing that comes up.



    Oh. And fukking duh life is a giant game of Minecraft, how do you think they came up with such an idea? Subatomic particles make up everything; hmmemoji.jpeg how bout we make a game where particles (blocks) make up everything?
    Broke both legs and ankles crew.
    Recover gains or die trying crew.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #70
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by FitSparky1 View Post
    but i do. i argued Schrodinger's cat is based on semantics in high school to a smart guy thats doing his phd in stem right now (and dad was a schizophrenic).
    Schrodinger's cat itself isn't based on semantics. Wigner's friend is. Schrodinger's cat illustrates the weirdness of tying classical binary states to quantum objects. It actually demonstrates a lot about the advantages of quantum computing. And it shows that a cat can be put in a superposition of states where we lack the language to describe this in english (the cat isn't really both alive and dead because that is logically impossible), but in math terms, it is easy. The cat is certainly not "both alive or dead". In fact, the cat's state is essentially indeterminate prior to the act of measurement. Its state is simply entangled with that of the quantum system, and so the state is in a superposition of the state of being alive and that of being dead. This is not the same as the cat being both alive and dead, which is impossible.

    BTW if you guys want to see something cool that strongly demonstrates that there definitely is something weird about measurement, check this out:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Zeno_effect

    You can delay the decay of a particle by measuring it. To put it in laymen's terms, the watched quantum pot doesn't boil. Weird chit, huh boyos?

    Not sure why everyone is knocking Busta. His statements (at least in the first post) are, to a first approximation, essentially correct. Measurement does affect the system, and the phenomenon I linked above is actually one very cool way to see this. Another is the double slit experiment, where detection of a particle at a slit destroys the diffraction pattern. The double slit is also very cool because if you send a single electron (a "PARTICLE" with mass which you wouldn't think is a wave) toward the double slit without detecting it at the slit, you will see it land somewhere weird on the screen that may seem unlikely if it just went through a single hole. Ok so if you repeat this over and over and look at the intensity pattern for where the electron hit on the screen, you will see a diffraction pattern, which is super weird and implies that somehow the electron interfered with itself. This suggests the electron is "really" a wave that interferes with itself as it passes through each hole. However, more fundamental considerations about quantum mechanics, coupled with the fact that all electrons are supposedly indistinguishable from each other, along with the theory of relativity leads you to abandon the wave/particle notion for the most part and start talking about this weird quantum field defined all over the place which can chit out what you would think is a particle or a wave. And that's where conventional physics is at today. More fundamental aspects lead one to go to ideas like strings and other stuff.
    Last edited by wincel; 06-22-2018 at 04:31 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #71
    Delivering Negs BustaCapp's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2002
    Location: Merseyside, The North, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 23,005
    Rep Power: 308409
    BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    BustaCapp is offline
    Originally Posted by ironicinori View Post
    No your argument breaks down at the double slit experiment... Although, your post breaks down when you call readers "bovine" like that's some kind of high brow insult that only your enlightened intelligence can issue.


    I can only assume by the fact that you linked to Spirit Science that you are A. Trolling, or B. Getting your information from Youtube cartoons like "what the bleep do we know", which are about equivalent to Harry Potter for explaining natural phenomena. I'm no particle physicist, just read a lot of Feynman. But reading the arguments in this thread makes me feel like a got damn Einstein.

    And I could dive head first into this chitfest with real information but lettuce be real. It's not worth it, I'd rather search for musicals on Netflix and watch the first thing that comes up.



    Oh. And fukking duh life is a giant game of Minecraft, how do you think they came up with such an idea? Subatomic particles make up everything; hmmemoji.jpeg how bout we make a game where particles (blocks) make up everything?
    Damn bro you sound as mad as all hell lmao.
    fist yourself
    Reply With Quote

  12. #72
    Delivering Negs BustaCapp's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2002
    Location: Merseyside, The North, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 23,005
    Rep Power: 308409
    BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) BustaCapp has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    BustaCapp is offline
    Originally Posted by FitSparky1 View Post
    plants receive sunlight and grow, do you deny that statement if no one is watching them?
    How do you know they grow if you are not watching them?

    You see them at one point, and then you see them later and they are bigger.

    Prove that they've actually grown, and that what you're looking at is not a rendered simulation.
    fist yourself
    Reply With Quote

  13. #73
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by BustaCapp View Post
    How do you know they grow if you are not watching them?

    You see them at one point, and then you see them later and they are bigger.

    Prove that they've actually grown, and that what you're looking at is not a rendered simulation.
    The whole simulation thing adds nothing to physics lol. Whether we are in a simulation or not is irrelevant. It is real to us. Now, the holographic principle does show us that what we perceive is happening, in a sense, on the boundary of some larger higher dimensional space. The "real" or more complete understanding of the universe would be the theory of this space and may be required to do correct calculations about how things act on the boundary. That's basically leading to this idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdS/CFT_correspondence, and researchers have found that higher dimensional string theories in that bulk space can be put in correspondence to quantum field theories on the boundary of that space (which is the 4d spacetime we know).
    Reply With Quote

  14. #74
    Banned JerseyFinger's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2014
    Location: Fargo, North Dakota, United States
    Posts: 2,237
    Rep Power: 0
    JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) JerseyFinger has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    JerseyFinger is offline
    Just lol @ you people who haven't figured it out yet
    Reply With Quote

  15. #75
    Registered User jay283's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2012
    Posts: 3,347
    Rep Power: 116
    jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10) jay283 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    jay283 is offline
    Originally Posted by LegDayLol View Post
    'Bovine mouth-breathers'

    Location: Liverpool









    thats sad
    “With realization of one's own potential and self-confidence in one's ability, one can build a better world."
    Reply With Quote

  16. #76
    Banned kekusmaximus's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2018
    Posts: 726
    Rep Power: 0
    kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    kekusmaximus is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    Not sure why everyone is knocking Busta. His statements (at least in the first post) are, to a first approximation, essentially correct.
    Because he's misinterpreting the science, and getting his information from new age sites. "Observation" in the physical sense has been proven to have nothing to do with either consciousness or sensors. It's just practically inconvenient and philosophically interesting that sensors are made of matter and thus are part of the system, but the reason they collapse the wave function is not that an intelligent being or even some kind of sensor is watching the system, a rock would collapse the wave function just the same.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #77
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    But who was unification energies? At higher energies, the fields are unified. It isn't photons, but some other particles that exist at those energies. Light is not the most basic building block of the universe. It's something way weirder. And time and space may emerge from some fundamental chit as well.
    visible light is one small spectrum of energy. fields are said to be composed of photons too, but they're called virtual photons, which i believe can be understood as being basically the same thing as regular photons although curled up in space time geometry differently than traditional photons.

    nuclear weak force and nuclear strong force have both been tied to electricity and magnetism, we just havent found the link to gravity and e&m
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

  18. #78
    Registered User Wewak's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2015
    Posts: 547
    Rep Power: 1349
    Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000)
    Wewak is offline
    Nothin too new its almost certain we live in a ‘simulation.’ Every new double slit variation pushes us that direction. it’s like making a robot and saying “wow humans are robots!” when robots are modeled after humans. Our computers are modeled after real life in a way.

    And to whoever says that observation is interacting with the particle, that’s ruled out by measuring the particle’s entangled pair instead. So you have to explain entanglement as well btw.

    Older schools of thought talked about this, Islamic theology and mysticism and even somewhere in the Soto Zen school basically says that our universe runs frame by frame almost 1000 years ago (today we understand that as a movie) – this solves all the double slit problems/entanglement probs.
    Reply With Quote

  19. #79
    C19H28O2 Sinan09400's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2012
    Location: Türkiye, Turkey
    Age: 28
    Posts: 12,813
    Rep Power: 35312
    Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Sinan09400 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Sinan09400 is offline
    if it is then my game is glitching hard who should I contact?
    Country music crew (old& modern& rock-mix don't care), you know a good tune, send away will rep *
    Reply With Quote

  20. #80
    Banned kekusmaximus's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2018
    Posts: 726
    Rep Power: 0
    kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    kekusmaximus is offline
    Originally Posted by Wewak View Post
    And to whoever says that observation is interacting with the particle, that’s ruled out by measuring the particle’s entangled pair instead. So you have to explain entanglement as well btw.
    Both entangled particles are part of the same quantum sub-system. When the rest of the universe interacts one of the particles, the particles cease to be entangled.

    I don't know what your point is.
    Last edited by kekusmaximus; 06-23-2018 at 12:48 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  21. #81
    Banned magnefico's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2018
    Age: 23
    Posts: 415
    Rep Power: 0
    magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500) magnefico is not very helpful. (-500)
    magnefico is offline
    So a tree falling in a forest with no one around, does not make a sound?
    Reply With Quote

  22. #82
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    Originally Posted by JewSeeJohn View Post
    Bro-science major checking in,

    How do you know if a wave function has collapsed, without actually observing the wave (to measure if it is collapsing) ?
    the idea is that when you send a wave through a double slit you get an interference pattern like this



    if you build this set up and send multiple electrons through one at a time you get the same interference pattern, meaning the electron is a probability distribution (wave)

    put a detector on the set up and the electrons are collapsed down to a particle. in physics talk, the wave distribution has been changed to a kroneker delta function

    before measuring the electron basically exists as this, a probability distribution



    after measuring, the wave distribution has been collapsed down to this




    Originally Posted by kekusmaximus View Post
    Both entangled particles are part of the same quantum sub-system. When the rest of the universe interacts one of the particles, the particles cease to be entangled.

    I don't know what your point is.
    heres how i understand entanglement.

    relativity states that no one particular reference frame is more fundamental than any other, so its equally valid to describe events in any. so observe two entangled particles from the infinite momentum reference frame. information is able to instantaneously propagate because in this reference frame the two particles are still touching eachother.

    you could go further and say that if the big bang theory is correct and all matter in the universe all started out at a point of zero volume then therefore the entire universe is entangled. but if you think about it, what would that say about the past, present and future?
    Last edited by 4ea; 06-23-2018 at 01:01 AM.
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

  23. #83
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by 4ea View Post
    visible light is one small spectrum of energy. fields are said to be composed of photons too, but they're called virtual photons, which i believe can be understood as being basically the same thing as regular photons although curled up in space time geometry differently than traditional photons.

    nuclear weak force and nuclear strong force have both been tied to electricity and magnetism, we just havent found the link to gravity and e&m
    They are virtual particles, but I don't think they are photons.
    Reply With Quote

  24. #84
    Registered User Wewak's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2015
    Posts: 547
    Rep Power: 1349
    Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000) Wewak is just really nice. (+1000)
    Wewak is offline
    Originally Posted by kekusmaximus View Post
    When the rest of the universe interacts one of the particles, the particles cease to be entangled.
    Explain since that’s not what’s shown in the delayed choice eraser set up
    Reply With Quote

  25. #85
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    They are virtual particles, but I don't think they are photons.
    fields are composed of virtual photons. what makes them "virtual" is that they can not be directly detected but they have a measurable effect

    fields also exert surface pressure, which would mean that there has to be some kind of farce carying particle there
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

  26. #86
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by 4ea View Post
    fields are composed of virtual photons. what makes them "virtual" is that they can not be directly detected but they have a measurable effect

    fields also exert surface pressure, which would mean that there has to be some kind of farce carying particle there
    Not all fields...

    The higgs field and gravitational fields have nothing to do with photons (well at least not until u unify them).

    But I agree with what you are saying about virtual particles and stuff. The casimir effect is a good example to sort of show they exist although there are other possible explanations. I just disagree that light is the fundamental building block or w/e. Light emerges from the more fundamental unified field.
    Reply With Quote

  27. #87
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    Not all fields...

    The higgs field and gravitational fields have nothing to do with photons (well at least not until u unify them).

    But I agree with what you are saying about virtual particles and stuff. The casimir effect is a good example to sort of show they exist although there are other possible explanations.
    higgs boson is a virtual photon. the graviton is a virtual photon as well
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

  28. #88
    Banned wincel's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2016
    Location: Chad
    Posts: 34,941
    Rep Power: 0
    wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) wincel has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    wincel is offline
    Originally Posted by 4ea View Post
    higgs boson is a virtual photon. the graviton is a virtual photon as well
    I think we are both using the word differently then. I was under the impression that virtual photons were just short term fluctuation photons. A photon generally has a specific meaning. Massless, spin 1, representing EM field. Gravitons are spin 2, and Higgs has no spin. Are you saying a virtual photon is not distinct from a virtual graviton?
    Reply With Quote

  29. #89
    Banned kekusmaximus's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2018
    Posts: 726
    Rep Power: 0
    kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) kekusmaximus is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    kekusmaximus is offline
    Originally Posted by Wewak View Post
    Explain since that’s not what’s shown in the delayed choice eraser set up
    The way the erasure experiment works, is that it shows how this interaction (or "observation") is reversible. If you cut all causal links from the outcome of this wavefunction collapse to the rest of the universe, basically ensuring that the outcome of the collapse has no effect at all on other quantum systems besides the one involved in the erasure, then the collapse is reversed and the quantum system behaves like it hadn't collapsed at all.

    So it's not about whether somebody saw the tree fall, it's more about the fallen tree not disturbing or influencing the rest of the forest in any way, shape or form.
    Reply With Quote

  30. #90
    Hamiltonian operator 4ea's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2011
    Age: 37
    Posts: 19,385
    Rep Power: 377873
    4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) 4ea has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    4ea is offline
    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    I think we are both using the word differently then. I was under the impression that virtual photons were just short term fluctuation photons. A photon generally has a specific meaning. Massless, spin +/-1, representing EM field.
    these are all very abstract ideas and using words to describe it is likely going to lead to confusion. the most effective way of describing it would probably be with math.

    photons do have mass though, but its not rest mass, its relativistic acquisition of mass.
    Merica

    <I.L.H.|C.O.E.>

    RIP YGST
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts