If you think about it Bench works the chest, shoulders and triceps which constitutes the front, and the barbell row works the entire posterior chain: traps, rear delts, erectors, lats and biceps.
So I'm kind of curious what would happen if I just picked those 2 exercises for upper body and progressed on them till I hit 315 lbs.
And as accessories maybe alternate incline, dips and pull ups.
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06-14-2018, 12:17 PM #1
Bench presses and rows enough for upper body?
Stats:
5'7 165 lbs
bench-240
squat-405
dead-430
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06-14-2018, 01:35 PM #2
I do bench and row combo twice a week and chin up and dip once a week.
I learned fast that it's better to progress on a few exercises than many different exercises.
Good luck rowing and benching 315 if you are doing 5-6 extra accessories.FS/ S/ OHP/ B/ DL
120/150/70/100/180 =KG
I don't go to the gym anymore so above stats are useless.
Only do weighted calastentics in the comfort of my own home!
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173620211&page=138 go here if you want an estimation on your bf%
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06-14-2018, 03:18 PM #3
not if you want arms that people are impressed by.
You need to add arms. Yes rows work [part of] the biceps some, and bench works [part of] the triceps some. There is also the variations of bench - flat, incline, decline, dumbbell, and the many variations thereof.
you should be incorporating arms, shoulders, and core dedicated exercises, and also more variation.
keep in mind your body will quickly adapt if all you do is bench and rows, and soon you will stop seeing results. Also, you'll get too bored to go back on a daily basis with only the same two exercises.
also, by not targeting each body part, you are very prone to injury and muscle imbalances.
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06-14-2018, 05:25 PM #4
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06-14-2018, 05:33 PM #5
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06-14-2018, 05:44 PM #6
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06-14-2018, 05:45 PM #7
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06-14-2018, 10:05 PM #8
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06-15-2018, 04:11 AM #9
For Upper Body..
Required:
- Horizontal push (bench press variation)
- Horizontal pull (row variation)
- Vertical push (OHP variation)
- Vertical pull (pull up/pulldown variation)
Highly recommended for joint health:
- Face pulls
- Hammer curls
Optional but recommended, depending on goals, which other variations you're doing (above) and total volume accrued for each muscle:
- Triceps variation
- Lateral raise
- Additional curl variation
Completely optional, and only if additional volume is both required and carefully programmed:
- Variations for training the lats through shoulder extension (straight arm pulldowns/pullovers)
- Variations for training the pecs through adduction of the humerus (flyes/cable crossover)Current PRs: (S/B/D) 145kg / 100kg / 180kg // 2018 goal PRs: 160kg / 110kg / 190kg
log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=174500821
Fat fake natty mansloot of the FMH crew
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06-15-2018, 04:23 AM #10
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,512
- Rep Power: 1338185
I'm never convinced by these kinds of minimalist arguments - I think they have a certain appeal because they appear like an elegant solution when written on paper. But in actual real life training, you would get bored quickly, would be concerned that you might be missing out (which I think you would be). And you could even suffer overuse injuries if you persisted with it.
I would think lats and lateral delts would be left underdeveloped. Arms are not activated as fully as they could be. And that's before you consider shoulder issues and remedial action that might be necessary for those. Posterior delts and upper traps are not really worked through a decent range of motion by rows - it does a good job of being a jack-of-all-trades but is a master-of-none.
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06-15-2018, 05:34 AM #11
I must have misunderstood the OP. I thought he said do main compounds and only use bench/row as accessory
I Bench and row 2x a week, but I also do face pulls x1, ohp 2x, push press x1, chin and dip 1x, deadlift x1, squat x2. I started adding in cheat curls and tricep push downs once a week to balance myself out a bit. Also good mornings x1, reverse hypers x2, and glute-ham x1, romanian x1
That is about all I do atm. I do agree with you that eventually I'll get bored and rotate some of the exercises, but for now it seems to work.
Now that I think about it.. It sounds like a lot lol but I wanted to make sure I have balance. I was considering to add seated leg curls, for knee extension of hammies, but not sure if it is important with my current routine.FS/ S/ OHP/ B/ DL
120/150/70/100/180 =KG
I don't go to the gym anymore so above stats are useless.
Only do weighted calastentics in the comfort of my own home!
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173620211&page=138 go here if you want an estimation on your bf%
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06-15-2018, 05:39 AM #12
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06-15-2018, 05:51 AM #13
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06-15-2018, 05:57 AM #14
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06-15-2018, 10:14 AM #15
Uhm yes when I said "Pull-ups" I was referring to pull up variations (chins, wide grip, hammer grip).
IMO rows>pull ups. Rows definitely work more back muscles because you're using the same muscles that the pull up uses, plus traps plus rear delts plus it's a nice accessory for the deadlift, and it's also way easier to progress on (for me)
Problem is most people do them with awful technique with a lot of cheating. I don't. I pull them off the floor, with no momentum, bar to waist, completely horizontal.Stats:
5'7 165 lbs
bench-240
squat-405
dead-430
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06-15-2018, 11:30 AM #16
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06-16-2018, 12:07 AM #17
Yes, but a row pulling directly toward chest (not upwards and towards) is great for e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhomboid_muscles in a way that pull-ups etc just don't train.
Even if I was looking for a minimalist approach I'd definitely have some row in there as well as a downward pull.
Despite some obvious overlap I'd say row and pull-ups are too different to directly compare - and both are needed. IMHO
Edit: we're definitely straying into "how to balance a program" which is maybe better covered in several existing threads
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06-16-2018, 01:12 AM #18
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06-16-2018, 01:45 AM #19
Nobody said that a row and benchpress was the end all to building muscle. That being said, a horizontal pull and a horizontal push is pretty much almost necessary to building muscle in the grand scheme of things. And while the number 315 may not matter, lifting more than you did last week does. It doesn't make someone a powerlifter just because of that.
Secondly, the 3 main movements that powerlifting focuses on doesn't involve rows (in the event that we're limited to 3 core movements).
Common misconception. While the intention of a bodybuilder may be size over strength, as a natural, its still going to boil back down to getting stronger at the movement or overloading it by increasing volume.
Well I don't assume people are going to get to benching or rowing or doing anything with 315 without progressive overload now are we? If you want to grow then you're going to have to go stronger, if you want to get stronger you're going to have to apply progressive overload.
Focusing on getting stronger on all your compounds doesn't make one a powerlifter. Focusing on squat,bench and deadlift at their 1 rep maxes alone while having a diet fixated around making a particular weight class makes on a powerlifter (along with all the technical requirements of the sport, which once again, is by passed here).Some regular lifting posts (IG) - @rsid_97
My Growth Stimulus Training journal - https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175699161
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06-16-2018, 03:19 AM #20
OP asked if he could get bench and row to 315lb, I said that good luck focusing on that goal if you are doing too many accessory lifts.
It has nothing to do with powerlifting, it has to do with progressive overloading. Which means... more reps, more sets, less rest time, more weight, ect ect. If his goal was to get 315 on bench and row, I simply made a remark that it would be quite difficult if you are trying to reach those goals and also adding in extra accessories and progressing on those too.
Bodybuilding does not automatically equate to many different accessories. It means to build your body, and how do we build our bodies? We get stronger.
Now stronger isn't a blanket term that means you can lift more weight, it means you have become better over time, more reps, sets ect ect, on and on and on. I think it is funny that you associate powerlifting with intermediate weights.
and I can only imagine what your training is like.FS/ S/ OHP/ B/ DL
120/150/70/100/180 =KG
I don't go to the gym anymore so above stats are useless.
Only do weighted calastentics in the comfort of my own home!
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173620211&page=138 go here if you want an estimation on your bf%
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06-16-2018, 03:21 AM #21
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06-16-2018, 05:11 AM #22
Try telling that to Ronnie Coleman
http://www.azquotes.com/author/24655-Ronnie_Coleman look at his number 1 quote
"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't nobody want to lift no heavy ass weight"
Not only was he the undisputed king of the triple negative, he also was good at bodybuilding too. A renaissance man of such diverse talents!
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06-16-2018, 05:59 AM #23
-I do shrugs every once in a while but not that important
-Lateral raises once every blue moon
-Close grip bench is just useless, since I already do bench with a medium grip
-Curls are a waste of time, I'd rather do tricep extensions.
Tbh I think that doing too many exercises is bad for a begginer. IMO one should only worry about lacking aspects once he has reached a later stageStats:
5'7 165 lbs
bench-240
squat-405
dead-430
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06-16-2018, 06:36 AM #24
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06-16-2018, 12:36 PM #25
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06-16-2018, 05:13 PM #26
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06-16-2018, 06:14 PM #27
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06-16-2018, 06:41 PM #28
- Join Date: Jun 2016
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 31
- Posts: 11,166
- Rep Power: 52549
It's not that I agree with all his points, It's the ridiculous attitude in your response.
He even asked what your goals were and you din't reply.
Cg bench is useless because you bench already? is it?
Cg Bench is a great supplementary exercise if your goal is to increase bench, it's also a great triceps builder so works for the bodybuilding side of goals too.
Hammer curls are well reputed for elbow health and anyone pressing a lot, and bodybuilding goals will require some arm isolation. (go watch some Jeff Nippard).
Lateral raises I'd sub for face pulls, but you should be doing face pulls. Rows will not be hitting your rear delts sufficiently.
Minimalism just for the sake of minimalism is just as ridiculous as doing a **** load of junk volume.
Extremism in anything is usually a poor life choice...5 day full body crew
FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
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06-17-2018, 04:41 AM #29
Alternate bench with OHP, alternate Barbell rows with dumbbell rows and alternate wide and narrow grips and i think you will be good. For what its worth i only bench,ohp,row and throw in some hammer curls as the end of my work out. Literally haven't done a single other exercise for upperbody in the last few years.
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06-17-2018, 08:28 AM #30
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