I did SS for roughly 4 month now. While my squat is going up fine, I am not making any progress on the bench press.
My best was 140lbs x 5 x 3. When I increased to 143, I failed several times and did a deload. Now I don't even manage 5 x 3 with 140. I switched to benching twice per week (monday and friday, doing OHP on wednesday), but it also doesn't help. I recently started adding more volume by doing incline bench and pec flies afterwards, but so far it also didn't make a difference.
I read that when you stall even after deloading, it's time to move on to intermediate programming. However, 140lbs is nothing, I really can not imagine that my novice gains are already over. Also before I recently had an ankle injury, my squat was at 223lbs x 5 x 3 and there was no sign of stalling, I never failed a set so far. Is it really possible that linear progression doesn't work anymore for me on the bench, or is probably something else the problem?
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06-09-2018, 11:46 AM #1
No Bench Press progression on Starting Strength
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06-09-2018, 04:35 PM #2
Bench gains are strongly correlated with weight gain. Be sure to eat in a caloric surplus, with at least 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, in order to build muscle.
If the problem isn't diet, then it's probably form. You can post a form check video in the "exercises" section for feedback.Once upon a time (maxes 2020) ...
Squat 185, Bench 137, DL 205, @ bw 88.5 age 43
Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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06-15-2018, 05:51 PM #3
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06-15-2018, 07:02 PM #4
When I ran Starting Strength I found the same thing, squats went up consistently but bench would barely move.
If a lift isn't going up, adding more volume to your routine usually helps. I'd try something like 3x/week frequency for bench (for the specificity of exercise selection), with lighter OHP work 1x/week.
If that doesn't work, and your nutrition and sleep are on point, you could either move on to a more advanced program like Madcows 5x5 or increase your daily workload to something like 6x3 or 7x3.Last edited by trey1x1; 06-15-2018 at 07:19 PM.
Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176477061
Current Bests:
Bench: 270x15 / 290x12
Squat (paused, beltless): 10x425x3 / 455x8
Deadlift (beltless): 500x4 (double overhand) / 465x10 / 405x22
Overhead Press: 205x11
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06-17-2018, 11:03 AM #5
Hi guys, thanks for the great advise and sorry for my late reply! I was on vacation.
I think I eat quite normal, but additionally i drink at least 2 liters of milk every day, so in total I guess I get enough calories. However, I never weigh myself, so I can not be certain. I'll buy a scale and keep track of that.
Thanks for the the advise. How would you approach weight selection and progression? For example training A setting a new 3x5 PR, and training B 3x5 with the same weight (so that the speed of progression is the same as if it was vanilla SS)?
I wonder if this might cause any inbalances, if I completely neglect heavy OHP.
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06-17-2018, 01:47 PM #6
I'd recommend at least tracking protein intake in terms of nutrition since it plays a big role in muscle/strength gains. It's recommended for athletes to eat .6g-.8g of protein per pound of bodyweight, so aim around there. If you're wiling to bulk, it's highly recommended for initial strength gains as well (like others said). Gaining a pound a week would definitely increase all of your lifts from the increased energy reserves, increased muscle tissue, and better leverages.
For weight selection, I'd recommend deloading the weight to something around 110, getting into a caloric surplus on sufficient protein and increasing your weights by +5 each day you train the lift. Like you said, you should still be getting novice gains at this point, so if you're stalling, it's most likely an issue with nutrition.
As far as muscle imbalances, SS does neglect direct back work, so if you're doing Power Cleans or Deadlifting 3x a week, you could drop the Cleans or one day of Deads to incorporate progressively overloading a rowing movement (Barbell Rows or Pendlay Rows) so your development is more balanced. As far as neglecting heavy OHP, benching does develop shoulders as well, but if you'd like to have a day for specific OHP progression that's up to you.Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176477061
Current Bests:
Bench: 270x15 / 290x12
Squat (paused, beltless): 10x425x3 / 455x8
Deadlift (beltless): 500x4 (double overhand) / 465x10 / 405x22
Overhead Press: 205x11
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06-17-2018, 02:42 PM #7
Appreciate the long answer. Gaining 4 pounds of weight every month would not be very sustainable at the moment, because I already started the training with quite a high body fat percentage. I can tell you my weight once the scale arrived, but just by looking in the mirror I'm pretty sure my BF is over 20%. I know it was probably not smart to start SS like that, but I feel if I now start cutting in the middle of the program it's also not gonna help. What do you think?
I don't think I could maintain increasing my bench weight 3x per week for 5 pounds. Currently I do increasements by 2.5 pounds 2x per week, and I'm plateauing with it. But yes, that might be an issue with my nutrition, so I can not say for sure that 5lbs increasements are impossible for me.
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06-17-2018, 03:51 PM #8
Very common with SS benching. IMO, best way to build your bench, especially as a beginner is with a wide ish variety of pressing and bodybuilding stuff. But then YNDTP.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/NorthStrongSC
Main Training Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155303583
After seeing a hard workout you may want to complain and want others to pity you for the work you have to do. Your mom will pity you. Your girl will pity you. I may pity you, but your competition will not pity you. They will step on you, walk over you and spit on you. � Boris Sheiko
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06-18-2018, 05:12 PM #9
If you're planning on cutting, SS (or a bastardized version of it) is still a viable routine. Lifting the same amount of weight while weighing less is still considered progressive overloading, since the movements are getting harder over time. If you work the same lifts you're currently doing (in terms of rep/set ranges and weight) while losing bodyweight, you'll still get results, so I'd recommend that.
Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176477061
Current Bests:
Bench: 270x15 / 290x12
Squat (paused, beltless): 10x425x3 / 455x8
Deadlift (beltless): 500x4 (double overhand) / 465x10 / 405x22
Overhead Press: 205x11
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06-19-2018, 01:40 PM #10
I decided that for now I will ignore my weight, right now it is more important to me to make progress instead of looking good. Also the program will not last longer than max. a few more months, so I can also lose weight afterwards. I bumped up my calory intake to 4000 kcal per day (counting it roughly), probably will need to adjust that down a little bit.
So far I thought the progress outlines in the book is crazy, but also I didn't follow the eating advise. So let's see if it does any good!
Regarding the bench programming I am not really sure yet what to do. Some people suggested me to train more "bodybuilding-style", adding maybe incline bench or close grip bench. I also like the suggestion benching 3x5 on three times per week. Would that be enough volume? Or should I just follow the program and throw in 3-4 sets of 8 of another pressing excercise at the end of the workout?
Also I made a form check video with little weight (110lbs). What could I improve? I noticed I lose tension once I unracked the bar
ww.youtube.com/watch?v=iREbTsU05HI&feature=youtu.be
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06-19-2018, 02:02 PM #11
Yeah, it looks like you're setting up well but then everything breaks a part when you touch the bar.
Keep the weight of your body on your traps by maintaining tension in your legs throughout the process. Keep your scapula retracted and pull your lats down. You can't wiggle an inch after you start unracking, everything needs to be tight.
You're too loose on the actual press to give any critique regarding that.
It just takes a lot of practice.Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175660541
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06-19-2018, 05:19 PM #12
At this point in your lifting, any exercise you're doing will benefit both body composition and strength since you're still getting acclimated to the lifestyle. A common adage is "You need to bench more to bench more," so if you feel like you're up to adding in another pressing movement to your routine it'll (most likely) help. 3x8 for those exercises (or dumbbell equivalents) would probably help but you should focus on adding the third bench day first, and then add the assistance once you've moderately adapted.
As for the form, your shoulders were set and maintained well and your arch was good for the whole set, so it was pretty good besides when you shifted your weight around. Look into adding leg drive next.Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176477061
Current Bests:
Bench: 270x15 / 290x12
Squat (paused, beltless): 10x425x3 / 455x8
Deadlift (beltless): 500x4 (double overhand) / 465x10 / 405x22
Overhead Press: 205x11
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06-20-2018, 07:08 AM #13
Thanks for the advise guys! Tried it today at the gym, pressing the legs hard into the floor already during setup definetely helped, I managed to unrack without destroying my setup or wiggling around afterwards.
Is it a problem that I am not really lying on my butt anymore? It still touches the bench, but because of using my legs my body doesn't rest on the glutes anymore.
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06-20-2018, 01:45 PM #14
Personally, I find the movement feels stronger while my legs are engaged through the rep, but it does come at the cost of fatiguing my lower back so I have to be mindful of how much I'm using them.
There aren't too many hard and fast rules about form since it's somewhat subjective and based on preference. Find what feels best and works for you.Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176477061
Current Bests:
Bench: 270x15 / 290x12
Squat (paused, beltless): 10x425x3 / 455x8
Deadlift (beltless): 500x4 (double overhand) / 465x10 / 405x22
Overhead Press: 205x11
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07-13-2018, 12:18 PM #15
Thank you guys for the great advice! With the help of this thread I finally managed to break the 140lbs plateau wednesday last week. Today I benched 154 x 5 x 3, red plates for the first time Having more tension in the legs/pressing myself into the bench and benching 3x per week did a lot. Here is a video from the last set today:
I noticed I touch very low on the chest. You can't see it in the video, but I use max grip width. Isn't it very uncommon to touch low with a wide grip?
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07-14-2018, 05:01 AM #16
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07-14-2018, 09:01 PM #17
- Join Date: Mar 2007
- Location: Nebraska, United States
- Age: 49
- Posts: 17,062
- Rep Power: 39392
No, it's pretty common to touch lower on index on ring grip. Vertical forearms is a basic SS recommendation but in powerlifting it's just a good starting point. You'll see many widths of grip on big attempts. Some advocate going out as far as possible. But it's going to be up to you to find your strongest grip and groove.
I'd lower those hooks down one. Get up on your shoulders more and lift the butt up when unracking alone to help maintain tightness. Lock the rear down before you start. Legal in all feds I've lifted in.My Training Journal: http://tinyurl.com/jasons-journal
My Video Training Journal: www.youtube.com/user/jason24590
08/17:245,185,275 02/18:345,275,380
06/18:405;315,455
goal: hit previous SBD #s again 524,364,562
current meet PRs: ---/---/--- ---
What NorthStrong's sig. says
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07-18-2018, 03:46 PM #18
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07-18-2018, 04:04 PM #19
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07-18-2018, 11:59 PM #20
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07-19-2018, 03:35 AM #21
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07-19-2018, 03:08 PM #22
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07-20-2018, 03:30 AM #23
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07-20-2018, 05:29 AM #24
You should not need to add anything to get past a 140 bench if you are doing the program correctly. YNDTP
How long are you resting between sets?
How much weight are you adding to the bar each session?
How many times have you stalled and reset? Also when you do the reset how long is it taking you to reach the weight you stalled at?
How much weight have you gained in the last 3 months?Last edited by zGwild; 07-20-2018 at 05:35 AM.
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07-20-2018, 02:59 PM #25
There are 2 things in the video that might be a problem, it might also just be the angle of the video and we can't really see well enough:
1) Your arms seem to be flaring, giving you more of what's called a 'bodybuilding style bench press' as opposed to a powerlifting style bench press where you tuck your elbows in - look it up and see if that might help you. Imagine you are trying to bend the bar and engage your lats.
2) I was gonna write a number 2 but I think this happens because of number 1, so just try fix number 1 (if it's an issue, from this video it does seem that there is an issue though).
Best of luck to ya."One would tolerate a world of demons for the sake of an angel"
Current lifts:
Squat 200 kg / 441 lbs
Bench 135 kg/ 297 lbs
Deadlift 220 kg / 485 lbs
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