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  1. #301
    Bigger Badder Bama bamazav's Avatar
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    I use a whey, creatine and a homemade pre-workout, sans any stimulants. I take Saw Palmetto, Pine Bark and Phyrgeum? for my prostate issue and then some D3 cause I am supposed to and then ZMA and melatonin at bed time. Sounds like a lot but all of it has a purpose. Gym progress, Keeping the pee flowing and sleep. Has been working okay for me.
    David, a 55 year old pastor, husband and father.

    1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified

    Best Lifts - Squat 375lbs Bench 205 lbs Deadlift 470lbs. Goals in next year 400 Sq, 225 Bench, 500 DL
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  2. #302
    Still Pounding! TM79's Avatar
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    Hi there Payton. Sorry to hear of the bicep pain. If it makes you feel better, I had (what sounds like) the same thing for almost all of my last cycle. Unfortunately, I went ahead and kept training for another 5 weeks and the pain never went away. Afterwards, I took a week off and then started this cycle with a deload week. So far the pain has been minimal. I hope that continues. As for warming up, I don't do much. I used to, but stopped due to lack of time. Hopefully by the time I'm your age I'll have time to warm up again. Hope you are pain free and back at it my friend.
    Male/38/5'10"/175 lbs
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  3. #303
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I'm feeling much better. Pain level at times is a 1 (no kidding). My wife makes fun of me when I tell her things like that, and if I knew that it would never get worse or would only get a bit worse then I wouldn't even mention it. But having been pain free for so only, I question whether or not it'll progressively get worse until it's unbearable.

    I did incline DB bench two nights ago: 35's x 35 that I followed up with 10 pull-ups. Last night I did 40's x 30 followed by 12 pull-ups. I'll probably progress by using a combination of higher intensity and more volume via additional sets.

    On another note, I have my annual physical on Oct 11. My food choices have been good (like they usually are) with less splurges (admittedly: binges at times) involving crap food. But 90+ percent of the time I'm eating chicken, lean lunchmeat (nitrate free), 90/10 burgers, salmon patties (from cans which are always wild caught), cheese, fruits (mostly apples and bananas), nuts, and vegetables. My variety in vegetables is lacking--usually peas, carrots, and (raw) broccoli--but it is what it is. So I'm expecting good lipid panel numbers.

    Having found a better path to bike, my mileage is higher than it's ever been. Last night was 1,199 on the odometer. My OCD self almost rode another mile just to roll the dial (so to speak), but my 82 year old mother called and needed to help so I went there to help her.
    Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
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  4. #304
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    I can't believe it, but they emailed me my lab results when my physical isn't until Friday. I have half a mind to cancel since I have the data now. Anyway, here are my lipids:

    LDL: 160
    HDL: 68
    Trigs: 53
    Total: 243

    Total/HDL: 3.6 (avg)
    Trigs/HDL: 0.8 (much lower than avg risk)

    My LDL is higher than it's ever been. I wonder if the week in Florida (this was two weeks before the blood draw) eating crap that I normally wouldn't eat had any affect on it. Anyone have any suggestions for lowering LDL? I eat a fair amount of 90/10 ground beef, but I also eat a lot of salmon too.

    On a separate note, my recovery where I hurt my arm on vacation seems to be getting better. I'm not cured, but I can do most pressing exercises with nearly no discomfort, but I had to stop after two sets of pull-ups about 5 days ago. So yesterday for my pulling exercise I used inverted rows. The discomfort was minimal but when I focused on using my lats more (mind muscle connection) the discomfort went to ~0.
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  5. #305
    Registered User tblodg15's Avatar
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    Was this blood test a full draw or just a drop like last time? I don’t have any evidence but I would be leery of the results received immediately from just a prick.

    That LDL is probably really high for you, I looked at my historical data and mine has never been that high either. My total has been much higher though because of really high triglycerides back when I ate bad with no exercise.

    I would assume the protocol for lowering LDL is the same as lowering cholesterol in general.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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  6. #306
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    I can't believe it, but they emailed me my lab results when my physical isn't until Friday. I have half a mind to cancel since I have the data now. Anyway, here are my lipids:

    LDL: 160
    HDL: 68
    Trigs: 53
    Total: 243

    Total/HDL: 3.6 (avg)
    Trigs/HDL: 0.8 (much lower than avg risk)

    My LDL is higher than it's ever been. I wonder if the week in Florida (this was two weeks before the blood draw) eating crap that I normally wouldn't eat had any affect on it. Anyone have any suggestions for lowering LDL? I eat a fair amount of 90/10 ground beef, but I also eat a lot of salmon too.

    On a separate note, my recovery where I hurt my arm on vacation seems to be getting better. I'm not cured, but I can do most pressing exercises with nearly no discomfort, but I had to stop after two sets of pull-ups about 5 days ago. So yesterday for my pulling exercise I used inverted rows. The discomfort was minimal but when I focused on using my lats more (mind muscle connection) the discomfort went to ~0.
    That LDL is high, period. I'm not sure if a week of poor diet could have that much of an effect on it, but it might be worth looking at it again. And like Troy said, it should be a full draw, the pinprick sounds too much like shades of Theranos.

    Your ratio is very good though, so it may not be anything to worry about.

    Keep that healing going! You should be fully functional before long.
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  7. #307
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. It was a full blood draw, so I think it was accurate. I'm going to replace some of my hamburgers with turkey burgers (ground turkey + dried french onion soup mixed together) and with even more salmon patties. I'm going to replace the primarily "protein" breakfast that I've been eating M-F at work with oatmeal, too. The 160 LDL is higher than I think it's ever been . . . definitely higher than it's been for the last 6-7 years.

    I've done some more research on cholesterol, and the following is a very (very, Very, VERY) in-depth look at cholesterol: https://peterattiamd.com/the-straigh...sterol-part-i/ If this info is true, then we're limited with what we conclusions we can draw from most rudimentary cholesterol tests like the one I just had. I didn't realize it, but there are even better cholesterol tests that do a much better job of quantifying your cholesterol. Here are some notes from the website:

    * ~40 million otherwise healthy people have hidden heart disease & expanded tests could have detected ~95% of them early.

    * Most important CVD risk metric: the number of apoB particles in your plasma, because a high number of apoB particles means you are at risk of atherosclerosis.  Everything else is secondary.

    * Expanded lipid tests are available with the best-known ones from Berkeley HeartLab where it was developed. Cost ~$175
    Another is the NMR Lipoprofile (for nuclear magnetic resonance), uses soundwaves to measure the number of particles. Cost ~$140
    The VAP™ Lipid Profile provides a more comprehensive CHD risk assessment than the Healthy Heart Profile. Cost ~$85


    I think with a few dietary changes I'll have my LDL back where it should be. I'll have another test in April for my insurance plan, and if it's not better, I think I'll splurge for one of the expanded tests.
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  8. #308
    Bigger Badder Bama bamazav's Avatar
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    Here are some things that I have found can affect my LDL numbers artificially or at least on a short term.

    - coconut oil - I try to stop any use at least two weeks before testing as I have found that my LDL scores high if I don't
    - Fried foods - same
    - Starchy carbs - If I am eating more carbs than normal, my LDL will be up.
    My best LDL numbers were when I was eating a low carb, less than 100g/day, Moderate fat and high protein. My study found that carbs affect the numbers more than we think. While my LDL was elevated a few weeks ago, my ratio was great and my overall number was the best in a long time. That was with moderate carbs added back.

    This is not in any way to be construed as medical advise, only as personal observations.
    David, a 55 year old pastor, husband and father.

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  9. #309
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
    Here are some things that I have found can affect my LDL numbers artificially or at least on a short term.
    Thanks David.
    Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
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  10. #310
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    The rehab continues. I had kind of sworn off (incline) barbell benching months ago considering the cycle of being able to do it for a season until then it starts to aggravate my shoulder. While I have been working up to incline DB bench numbers (successfully benching 50's x 25 reps IIRC), on a whim I thought I test 135 on the incline bench and it felt great! I'm going to go up 5 lbs per workout until hopefully getting back to my previous numbers. And I've been able to do inverted rows with nearly no pain, so I've got a push and a pull exercise that I can do. I've swapped out squats for biking up and down the hills around my house.

    I guess to compare myself with a few running friends that I have I ran my first and only 5K of 2019 today . . . not a sanctioned race, just out to the blue Harvastore silo that's 1.55 miles from my house and then back I was quite pleased, because after hoping to just be able to break 30 minutes, I finished 3 miles in a bit over 26 minutes when my phone app ceased working . . . but I finished the remaining .1 miles.



    We persuaded our daughter and SIL to have a date night last night, and between a little walking yesterday morning, walking with Payton (the name of our granddaughter) in her stroller then walking their dog Daisy and then finishing the night walking a local festivity called Harvest Homecoming, I walked 24,000 steps yesterday. I got 15,000 in today after my 5k run follwed by a 2 mile walk with my wife.
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  11. #311
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    With all of the biking that I do, I must admit that I am very surprised by how darn sore my quads are after yesterday's run.
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  12. #312
    Still Pounding! TM79's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    With all of the biking that I do, I must admit that I am very surprised by how darn sore my quads are after yesterday's run.
    It seems like the older I get, even a slight change to what I'm used to feels like doing leg day for the first time.

    With regards to your cholesterol, I had to look back, but my last test appears to be worse that yours.

    LDL: 181
    HDL: 60
    Tri: 100
    Total: 261

    The doctor didn't seem overly concerned about that though. Weird...
    Male/38/5'10"/175 lbs
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  13. #313
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TM79 View Post
    It seems like the older I get, even a slight change to what I'm used to feels like doing leg day for the first time.

    With regards to your cholesterol, I had to look back, but my last test appears to be worse that yours.

    LDL: 181
    HDL: 60
    Tri: 100
    Total: 261

    The doctor didn't seem overly concerned about that though. Weird...
    I got to thinking about the sore legs. My understanding about soreness is that it's the eccentric (NOT the concentric) component that causes soreness. And biking is essentially all concentric as you're constantly pushing on the pedals. Running is both concentric (pushing off your foot) and eccentric (landing and using your muscles to absorb the impact). So I THINK that's why I'm sore.

    Interesting about your cholesterol and your doctor's apathy. I've decided to cut back on the 90/10 hamburger. We've already made a batch of turkey burgers (that I've eaten all of) and I had oatmeal every day this week. I'll have new lipid numbers in April and I'll let you know if what I'm doing has had any positive affect on my lipids or not.

    They say keeping your weight down AND exercise is what results in good cholesterol numbers. This may be why our HDL numbers are so good, but what's up with the higher LDL (rhetorical).
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  14. #314
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    I got to thinking about the sore legs. My understanding about soreness is that it's the eccentric (NOT the concentric) component that causes soreness. And biking is essentially all concentric as you're constantly pushing on the pedals. Running is both concentric (pushing off your foot) and eccentric (landing and using your muscles to absorb the impact). So I THINK that's why I'm sore.

    Interesting about your cholesterol and your doctor's apathy. I've decided to cut back on the 90/10 hamburger. We've already made a batch of turkey burgers (that I've eaten all of) and I had oatmeal every day this week. I'll have new lipid numbers in April and I'll let you know if what I'm doing has had any positive affect on my lipids or not.

    They say keeping your weight down AND exercise is what results in good cholesterol numbers. This may be why our HDL numbers are so good, but what's up with the higher LDL (rhetorical).
    We use ground turkey that's 93/7. It needs enough fat to cook properly. It's our primary form of meat at home, if there's going to be beef, it's during an eating out event.

    Oatmeal might help, just hope you can stick with it for that long.
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  15. #315
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    We use ground turkey that's 93/7. It needs enough fat to cook properly. It's our primary form of meat at home, if there's going to be beef, it's during an eating out event.

    Oatmeal might help, just hope you can stick with it for that long.
    Thanks Dave. I actually like oatmeal, but until recently, I have gotten out of the habit of eating it. When I do eat it, I normally start with a 150 cal packet of Quaker Oats (IIRC) Raisins, Dates, and Walnuts. To this, I add an equal amount of instant oats, a tbs or two of chopped pecans, cinnamon, and a little splenda. I have been known to add a cut up and very ripe banana to plain instant oats too (with cinnamon and splenda).

    How do you fix your 93/7 turkey? As I wrote above, our "go to" recipe is to mix in a dry packet of french onion soup mix.
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    My wife and I finally went to her gym which gave me a chance to try what I thought would enable me to work my back without irritating my bicep: the lat pull-down. I haven't done these in decades, but pull-ups still seem to hurt when my forearm approaches my bicep at the top of the rep. Using a wide grip on the lat pull-down machine worked great. I'll try wide grip pull-ups later this week to see if that works as well, too.

    And ironically, I've been able to do incline bench too and was very happy with my max effort of 185 x 10.
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post

    And ironically, I've been able to do incline bench too and was very happy with my max effort of 185 x 10.
    Whoa I would be happy with that as well!

    Glad you found that pull downs don’t bother your arm. I am surprised you haven’t done them in so long. Every few months I cycle between wide grip pull downs, neutral grip pull downs, narrow grip pull downs, pull-ups, and chin-ups. It would get more boring for me doing the same exercise over and over and probably better on the body as well to change it up occasionally.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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  18. #318
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    I'm still trying new work-arounds for my arm. Getting dumbbells into position for OHP put the crook of my arm in a bad position (that's when I feel the discomfort), so I tried seated OHP at Planet Fitness last night on their Smith machine. I shouldn't be surprised at how much higher my seated versus unseated numbers are, but I actually OHP'd 135x10!!! I'm very happy with this, and I'd likely struggle to get just 3 reps (+/-) if I attempted standing OHP with a regular (non-Smith) barbell.

    I did 160x10 on the lat pulldown machine too. I weigh ~173 and while I could get 15 or more pull-ups, I think the less reps with less weight is probably attributed to the spacing of my hands on the bar which is fairly wide (by design to not put my arm in a compromising position).

    I just added the Garmin Connect device to my Go365 health insurance point accumulation system. They give 5 points for every 15 minutes your HR is over 60% of max (which is only 101 bpm for my 52 year old body). My goto bike ride takes a bit longer than 45 minutes, and wearing the Garmin for the first time on Tuesday, my average HR was 128. Considering the over 100 times that I've ridden this "loop" this year, that would have already taken me to gold status (which would assure me a slightly lower insurance premium next fiscal year). Oh well, I think I have time to attain gold status with the amount of time remaining.
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  19. #319
    Registered User jreacher's Avatar
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    Are you experiencing tendonitis or is it something else?

    It kinda sounds like something similar to what I’ve been experiencing. I’ve been having inside elbow pain which I’m pretty sure is the distal tendon.

    It’s really frustrating and annoying. Especially since so much of my normal workouts involve chinups.

    Best wishes that you overcome your injury and pain.
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    Originally Posted by jreacher View Post
    Are you experiencing tendonitis or is it something else?

    It kinda sounds like something similar to what I’ve been experiencing. I’ve been having inside elbow pain which I’m pretty sure is the distal tendon.

    It’s really frustrating and annoying. Especially since so much of my normal workouts involve chinups.

    Best wishes that you overcome your injury and pain.
    Thanks Reacher, but my pain is about 1" from the crook in my arm just before my bicep begins so it's neither golfer's nor tennis elbow. It happened while I was on vacation and attempted incline benching with 75 lb dumbbells after an admittedly inadequate warm-up (only 3 reps with each arm using a 35 lb dumbbells). I felt "discomfort" immediately but nothing "popped" or anything like that.
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  21. #321
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post

    I just added the Garmin Connect device to my Go365 health insurance point accumulation system. They give 5 points for every 15 minutes your HR is over 60% of max (which is only 101 bpm for my 52 year old body).
    That's cool you get incentives for actual exercise and heart rate! I have never heard of that before, ours gives incentives for BMI and blood pressure targets.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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  22. #322
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    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    . . .ours gives incentives for BMI . . .
    SMH. You are the poster child for why BMI's are a poor barometer for health, i.e., lean but with enough muscle to make you borderline "overweight"

    I might see if I can double or triple dip with my points too as I'm going to upload runkeeper that's also in our system . . so while getting Runkeeper points I should be getting HR points with Garmin and step points with Fitbit
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  23. #323
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    SMH. You are the poster child for why BMI's are a poor barometer for health, i.e., lean but with enough muscle to make you borderline "overweight"
    Yes you are right, my BMI of 27ish still says I am “overweight”, but luckily to meet the incentive we just have to be out of the obese category. I am still only about 15 lbs from “obese”.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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  24. #324
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    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    Yes you are right, my BMI of 27ish still says I am “overweight”, but luckily to meet the incentive we just have to be out of the obese category. I am still only about 15 lbs from “obese”.
    I just googled it thinking some "genius" from 1980 or thereabouts created it, but the internet says it was created in the 1830's. That's nearly 200 years of flawed "science" If you wanted something simple with some merit, waist circumference to height would be a better metric.
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  25. #325
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    I still vacillate between thinking that I have a work-around my arm injury or not. The Smith machine seems to be best with OHP for my shoulders and incline for my chest, and I follow up with wide grip pull-ups for my back. There's very little discomfort with these exercises, either doing them or the next day (perhaps a bit more discomfort the morning immediately after the workout). Last night was shoulder night and I did the following:

    Smith OHP
    135 x 13, 12, 13

    WG Pull-ups*
    BW x 13, 12, 13
    *The last few reps aren't as high as the earlier ones, but I still feel like I'm getting a good lat workout.

    For legs, i did leg extensions rest-pause. I've done fewer leg exercises since Spring due to my frequent bike riding. With the time change that occurred on Saturday, I can now only ride on weekends (unless I take an afternoon off which I typically do most Fridays for the last 2-3 months of the year). My bike's odometer is 1,355 miles for the year.
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  26. #326
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    And ironically, I've been able to do incline bench too and was very happy with my max effort of 185 x 10.
    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    Whoa I would be happy with that as well!
    I've been incline benching at home, and the difference in my weights/reps at home and those at PF are significantly different . . . so much so, that I was compelled to ask the question: "so, uh, how much does the bar on the Smith machine weigh?" Answer: 20 lbs (*crying*). So, my 185x10 was actually a 160 x 10 FWIW, I did manage a 170x9 which calculates to ~220# 1RM which isn't bad for an incline bench @ 173 lbs.

    My seated OHP of 135x13 is only a 110x13.
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  27. #327
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    I've been incline benching at home, and the difference in my weights/reps at home and those at PF are significantly different . . . so much so, that I was compelled to ask the question: "so, uh, how much does the bar on the Smith machine weigh?" Answer: 20 lbs (*crying*). So, my 185x10 was actually a 160 x 10 FWIW, I did manage a 170x9 which calculates to ~220# 1RM which isn't bad for an incline bench @ 173 lbs.

    My seated OHP of 135x13 is only a 110x13.
    This is why you see (PWO) so often in my log. If I am not sure of the bar weight, I just track the plates. My Smith is probably lighter than 45 lbs also. I am too lazy to take it apart and actually weigh the bar. Landmine work is another one where the weight of the bar is less than we think. If I had paid attention in Math classes, I would figure out what the adjusted weight of a pivoting bar is, but again, I am too lazy to do that much work, just count the plates.
    David, a 55 year old pastor, husband and father.

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  28. #328
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    I've been incline benching at home, and the difference in my weights/reps at home and those at PF are significantly different . . . so much so, that I was compelled to ask the question: "so, uh, how much does the bar on the Smith machine weigh?" Answer: 20 lbs (*crying*). So, my 185x10 was actually a 160 x 10 FWIW, I did manage a 170x9 which calculates to ~220# 1RM which isn't bad for an incline bench @ 173 lbs.

    My seated OHP of 135x13 is only a 110x13.
    Don't despair, all those are still really good numbers.

    I know the feeling, though!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    64 and still a newbie.
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    Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
    This is why you see (PWO) so often in my log. If I am not sure of the bar weight, I just track the plates. My Smith is probably lighter than 45 lbs also. I am too lazy to take it apart and actually weigh the bar. Landmine work is another one where the weight of the bar is less than we think. If I had paid attention in Math classes, I would figure out what the adjusted weight of a pivoting bar is, but again, I am too lazy to do that much work, just count the plates.
    You have to use that cosine thingy, and the equivalent weight gets lower as you pull the bar higher. But from a leverages standpoint that's actually true of a lot of the weights we lift, even with a barbell.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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  30. #330
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    I've been incline benching at home, and the difference in my weights/reps at home and those at PF are significantly different . . . so much so, that I was compelled to ask the question: "so, uh, how much does the bar on the Smith machine weigh?" Answer: 20 lbs (*crying*). So, my 185x10 was actually a 160 x 10 FWIW, I did manage a 170x9 which calculates to ~220# 1RM which isn't bad for an incline bench @ 173 lbs.

    My seated OHP of 135x13 is only a 110x13.
    Oops! Not like it really matters that much as stimulus to the body is what is most important (unless purely working on strength goals). But nonetheless that is a little bummer on the ego.

    I still couldn’t come close to 110x13 in OHP. That’s great if it doesn’t bother your shoulder.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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