3 Month Muscle Mass Gain but Fat Burn Questions

[jkpel]

You're just being impatient dude. Achieving the physique you want is measure in years, not months.

Nobody is ever satisfied in this game. It never ends. You've just gotta be sensible about it.

Well I just had a look at your pics. I mean, you have the muscle size or overall size that I'd like to get closer to before I cut ya know? I probably won't reach it but I'd like to get bigger before I cut fat. I just think I should have followed a different weight lifting routine all this time so that I gained enough muscle mass if you look and lift bigger than me.

[TheGymJim]

Well I just had a look at your pics. I mean, you have the muscle size or overall size that I'd like to get closer to before I cut ya know? I probably won't reach it but I'd like to get bigger before I cut fat. I just think I should have followed a different weight lifting routine all this time so that I gained enough muscle mass if you look and lift bigger than me.

You shouldn't compare yourself to other people. We all have different genetics. I, for example, have ridiculously favourable trap insertions (and probably a crapload more androgen receptors in my traps and delts than most) so my having big traps makes me look considerably bigger. I never directly train my traps either. It's pure genetics.

Your only true gauge of progress is yourself.

Bear in mind almost all those photos were taken at the peak of my bulk, when I was carrying a lot of fat, too. And then consider the fact you're starting with higher bodyfat than I did.

I still have a long way to go, and if I could do it again, I would have cut first.

Again, it's up to you man. I'm not telling you what to do, just my own experience and what I wish I'd done first.

[CommitmentRulz]

... carry on lifting weights and trying to lift heavier, trying to eat more, and hoping to see and feel my body get bigger - which I assume will be from muscle growing.

You'll get bigger, pretty much guaranteed, but it will be from muscle and even more fat.

It's your call, but in your original post, you wrote

But I have a big gut now with all this carb eating and my face is looking more round and pudgy, plus in August I may be on a beach in Croatia and I would like to look less of a lardy looking person as possible.

[jkpel]

So I guess I'll have to carry on trying to put on more muscle and live with the extra fat it will give me, and sod the Croatia gut and just live with more fat gained for these 3 months. If I can't lose any fat at all while I'm bulking muscle, then so be it. I'll cut later anyway.

I just need to know what is the best and fastest way to get more muscle mass in this time as opposed to the slower rate I've been gaining since Jan 2017.

So I wonder what change to my routine I should do? Am I on a plateau right now? Should I eat even more than I am now? Etc.

[Jasonk282]

So I guess I'll have to carry on trying to put on more muscle and live with the extra fat it will give me, and sod the Croatia gut and just live with more fat gained for these 3 months. If I can't lose any fat at all while I'm bulking muscle, then so be it. I'll cut later anyway.

I just need to know what is the best and fastest way to get more muscle mass in this time as opposed to the slower rate I've been gaining since Jan 2017.

So I wonder what change to my routine I should do? Am I on a plateau right now? Should I eat even more than I am now? Etc.

You're gonna put on mire fwr thwn muscle...but what do we know

[TheGymJim]

So I guess I'll have to carry on trying to put on more muscle and live with the extra fat it will give me, and sod the Croatia gut and just live with more fat gained for these 3 months. If I can't lose any fat at all while I'm bulking muscle, then so be it. I'll cut later anyway.

I just need to know what is the best and fastest way to get more muscle mass in this time as opposed to the slower rate I've been gaining since Jan 2017.

So I wonder what change to my routine I should do? Am I on a plateau right now? Should I eat even more than I am now? Etc.

If you must bulk, then do so in about a 300 calorie surplus. That way at least you're going to gain more muscle than fat, or worst case 50/50.

Other than that, it comes down to your routine. The one you posted isn't great.

How many days a week do you intend on training?

(I would still advise cutting btw, but I guess we're into Dreamer Bulk mode now lol)

[jkpel]

If you must bulk, then do so in about a 300 calorie surplus. That way at least you're going to gain more muscle than fat, or worst case 50/50.

Other than that, it comes down to your routine. The one you posted isn't great.

How many days a week do you intend on training?

(I would still advise cutting btw, but I guess we're into Dreamer Bulk mode now lol)

Terribly sorry, I didn't realise you had replied here, I thought this thread had died and I was the last to post.

I just popped back into this thread as time has passed and I ended up working out less due to work and other stuff going on. Basically I lost some muscle after this frustrating time and now here I am back again - having to do another 3 months to get my gains back and then get to the further gains I'm aiming for.

So I'm back on here asking more questions. But to start with I'll reply your post - and if you're still here my big apologies for not getting back to you before, I don't know why your post got unnoticed by me.

Well a 300 calorie surplus is something I can go for, though it's not easy to weigh and watch my food. I haven't done this so far on my bulking period.

If my routine isn't great for gaining muscle, then do please tell me what you suggest. Personally I'm thinking of doing just 6 reps at higher weights rather than 8 reps but please tell me more suggestions.

I do consider cutting, but as I lost muscle and want to get it back then I feel I may as well go for a little longer and do 3 months full bulk mode.

But I would like to know why you think I should cut, and was is Dream Bulk Mode mean?

[jkpel]

Also as I've had an uneven previous 3 months and lost muscle, I now need to reluctantly get muscle bulking again for 3 months more, then I cut. Plus I'm expected to take a week or 10 days off with both a holiday and a medical trial both possibly coming up. So it's gonna be uneven for the next 1 month too.

But after that I got at least 2 months I'm willing to do to bulk as much as I can.

But still, does anyone have any better routine in mind to help me gain more muscle than I'm currently doing? Or to gain muscle faster than I'm doing with my routine? All my stuff is 8 reps of a weight, but I've been advised to do less reps and heavier weights etc.

But the big question I have here is to stop this damn fat from being added to me. It kinda pisses me off that right now I got this big fat stomach and I'm sure fat is added to my face too, and I just got back from Croatia where my mates kinda took the piss out of me for being a fat bastard there. So that Beach Body Mission has failed.

It just concerns me that if I add more muscle for the next 3 months I'm gonna add MORE fat too. So is there some way I can limit the fat that I add at all, or to not add any, or to even lose a bit?

I mean I don't do cardio now as I don't see the point. If I burn any cals it means that these burned cals are gonna stop me gaining muscle. If I take any fat burning supplement would that work? Is it worth me doing any sit ups even if it means I'm just gonna add more fat to that damn thing?

I just hate this whole deal of having such a fat face and stomach right now, and the thought of doing more bulking for 3 months just makes me a bit despairing it it means there is NO way to limit any fat gain.

Any ideas or brainstorming comments are welcome.

[n64bomb]

OP, please cut, that is what is best for you right now.

[jkpel]

OP, please cut, that is what is best for you right now.

Thanks for your reply back in here. I would like to know why you think I should cut. Can you please tell me the reasons why you think I should?

[HOOMY903]

If you really want to build muscle mass but also limit fat gain, why dont you try eating in surplus for 1 week and then in a defecit for a week and then 2 weeks in a surplus and then 1 week in defecit or how ever often you think you need to lean up again. The leaner you are the more muscle you will put on and also the less fat you generally put on. So trying to always stay under 12% is optimum for muscle gain.

So you are bulking with mini 1 week cutting in between to keep all your levels in check.

[TheGymJim]

If you really want to build muscle mass but also limit fat gain, why dont you try eating in surplus for 1 week and then in a defecit for a week and then 2 weeks in a surplus and then 1 week in defecit or how ever often you think you need to lean up again. The leaner you are the more muscle you will put on and also the less fat you generally put on. So trying to always stay under 12% is optimum for muscle gain.

So you are bulking with mini 1 week cutting in between to keep all your levels in check.

OP, please ignore the above garbage. In general, ignore anything from anyone who has a negative rep score.

Now I'll move on to your questions...

I ended up working out less due to work and other stuff going on. Basically I lost some muscle after this frustrating time and now here I am back again - having to do another 3 months to get my gains back and then get to the further gains I'm aiming for.

1. Well a 300 calorie surplus is something I can go for, though it's not easy to weigh and watch my food. I haven't done this so far on my bulking period.

2. If my routine isn't great for gaining muscle, then do please tell me what you suggest. Personally I'm thinking of doing just 6 reps at higher weights rather than 8 reps but please tell me more suggestions.

3. I do consider cutting, but as I lost muscle and want to get it back then I feel I may as well go for a little longer and do 3 months full bulk mode.

4. But I would like to know why you think I should cut,

5. was is Dream Bulk Mode mean?

6. Also as I've had an uneven previous 3 months and lost muscle, I now need to reluctantly get muscle bulking again for 3 months more, then I cut.

7. But after that I got at least 2 months I'm willing to do to bulk as much as I can.

8. But the big question I have here is to stop this damn fat from being added to me. It kinda pisses me off that right now I got this big fat stomach and I'm sure fat is added to my face too, and I just got back from Croatia where my mates kinda took the piss out of me for being a fat bastard there. So that Beach Body Mission has failed.

9. It just concerns me that if I add more muscle for the next 3 months I'm gonna add MORE fat too. So is there some way I can limit the fat that I add at all, or to not add any, or to even lose a bit?

10. I mean I don't do cardio now as I don't see the point. If I burn any cals it means that these burned cals are gonna stop me gaining muscle.

11. If I take any fat burning supplement would that work?

12. Is it worth me doing any sit ups even if it means I'm just gonna add more fat to that damn thing?

13. I just hate this whole deal of having such a fat face and stomach right now, and the thought of doing more bulking for 3 months just makes me a bit despairing it it means there is NO way to limit any fat gain.

Sigh....

Okay. Let's go.

1. It may not be "easy" to weigh and track everything, but if you're serious about bulking in the smallest possible surplus you can, it is necessary. Not doing something because it's easier that way is what we call "laziness". You're asking for the world here. You want to gain muscle and lose fat in a short time frame and you want it to be easy. All four of those things are mutually exclusive. It's really time you had a wake up call and understood that.

2. You're a novice, so do a novice routine. Pick any you like from the stickies. My personal recommendation would be Fierce 5.

3. You absolutely should not do "full bulk mode". As we've been over multiple times in this thread, you are too fat to do that, and you will just get more fat and not be able to see any muscular gains you do make. Sorry, but I think I have to start being even more blunt now, because something here clearly isn't getting through to you.

4. You should cut because:

a) Your body fat percentage is too high, even for general health purposes.
b) Being lean helps you stay lean and allows you to bulk for longer. It's better in the long run for your goals.
c) You mention multiple times that you're unhappy with how high your body fat is, and yet you repeatedly state that you want to bulk. Pick ONE.

5. A "Dreamer Bulk" is so called because of a member on here years ago who became something of a legend. He was very aptly named "Dreamer" and he decided to bulk when he was already fat, and just became obese without putting on much muscle or strength lol. Hilarious that he was actually called "Dreamer" too because you have to be fecking DREAMING to think that bulking at that high body fat is a good idea.

6. Not really. Since you're still a novice, the training stimulus alone will be enough for you to add some muscle, even whilst cutting.

7. Again, bulking "as much as you can" equates to just getting even fatter. It's a terrible idea.

8. THIS RIGHT HERE. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE. You dislike being fat. Clearly this is having a negative affect on your confidence. You clearly hate it and want to be leaner, but you want more muscle too. We all want more muscle and less fat, man. But it doesn't work like that. You can't skip to the end. There's no shortcut. There's no way to have both at once in a short period of time. It does not work like that. Please get that into your head. Please wake up and realise that this is a journey of several years and you need to accept that if you truly intend to progress in the right direction. There is NO WAY AROUND IT. There are no "hacks", no "tricks" and no shortcuts. Get that into your damn head. I know it sucks, but those are the facts. Commit, or give up. Those are your options.

9. Yes. You do a conservative cut. You aim for a small to moderate deficit, and being a novice, you will simultaneously lose fat (relatively slowly) and gain muscle (relatively slowly).

10. Cardio is for cardiovascular health, as the name implies, not fat loss. Sure, it contributes to a caloric deficit, but the main reason it's good for you is that it makes you fitter. Doing some amount of cardio is good for everyone. If you want to be in a slight deficit but have a problem with tracking food accurately and consistently, it's a very good idea for you to do cardio anyway. It can only help.

11. No. Fat burners do not do anything. Do not buy them.

12. That's not how it works. You don't add fat to the areas you're working out because you're eating in a surplus lol. Sit ups are just an ab exercise. They strengthen your abs. I personally think they're not the best ab exercise, though. Ab wheel rollouts are IMO the best.

13. Here we go again. More evidence that you should cut. Dude. You're unhappy with how you look, and that's mostly due to your high body fat.

So, after all that, we come back to what I posted before:

Pick one of the following:

1. Put yourself in a decent sized deficit and lose a good amount of fat and preserve your existing muscle. You will lose fat quickly but you will not put on much if any muscle. Aim to lose 1-2lbs/week

2. Put yourself into a small deficit, lose a small amount of fat, and build a small amount of muscle. This will take a long time. Aim to lose 0.5-1lbs/week

3. Put yourself into a caloric surplus, and gain fat and muscle. Gain no more than 0.5lbs/week

You will have to cut at some point anyway, and getting even fatter before you do so is only going to make matters worse.

Seriously dude, pick 1. or pick 2.

Bulking is a fecking terrible idea at this stage. If you decide to do the slower method where you're gaining small amounts of muscle and losing small amounts of fat simultaneously, you're already going to be doing that for a year or so at this point. Bulking more right now would just lead you to having a really long, miserable cut that with your (current) lazy attitude, I guarantee you will give up on, and just stay fat forever.

I seriously think you should just pick option 1. and go for a full cut right now. You will look and feel better, and you will have more muscular definition as you reduce the layer of fat covering everything, so you'll actually look more like you work out.

If you do this now, whilst lifting on a good routine as a novice, you'll maintain your muscle mass with no problem at all, and maybe add a little if you're lucky. You'll be able to cut that fat right down, pretty quickly, and then you'll have the opportunity to do a conservative bulk in the relatively near future.

Above all, though, you need to wake up and smell your own bullchit.

You are NOT going to have your "dream physique" by next summer. Maybe by the following summer you'll have a physique you're happy with, if you do it right, and train consistently. Whatever you visualise as your "dream" physique, that's where you might get to if you put in the work, consistently, for the next 5 years.

Stop believing in shortcuts. They don't exist. They never have.

[jkpel]

TheGymJim, I'm very grateful of your time to help me out on this one, it's a lot to type, thank you very much.

I've been thinking on what you said, wondering to go straight into the cut, or just a month to at least get me back to the strength and mass that I was before I lost some gains, or to go one last suffering hog and do the full 3 months - and right now I've still not decided what to choose yet.

But I want to know just what are the best ways to do 1 or 2. What are the best ways to do a cut and calorie deficit. I've done it before, didn't find it too enjoyable and was more work to my days blah blah, but I'm happy to do it again with my advanced knowledge on things since.

But I still don't think I know everything, or at least the most essential ways to do it. More importantly I don't know what to do about carbs. I mean if I hit the required protein intake per day, do I try to take as little carbs as possible as well as avoiding high bad fats? As taking next to zero carbs I gather is the best way to drop fat and lean out, but isn't that gonna mean I could too much muscle?

Yeah, still gotta program my brain to get into calorie deficit cut mode. I wanna throw myself right into it so I gotta get ready to do so.

[TheGymJim]

TheGymJim, I'm very grateful of your time to help me out on this one, it's a lot to type, thank you very much.

I've been thinking on what you said, wondering to go straight into the cut, or just a month to at least get me back to the strength and mass that I was before I lost some gains, or to go one last suffering hog and do the full 3 months - and right now I've still not decided what to choose yet.

But I want to know just what are the best ways to do 1 or 2. What are the best ways to do a cut and calorie deficit. I've done it before, didn't find it too enjoyable and was more work to my days blah blah, but I'm happy to do it again with my advanced knowledge on things since.

But I still don't think I know everything, or at least the most essential ways to do it. More importantly I don't know what to do about carbs. I mean if I hit the required protein intake per day, do I try to take as little carbs as possible as well as avoiding high bad fats? As taking next to zero carbs I gather is the best way to drop fat and lean out, but isn't that gonna mean I could too much muscle?

Yeah, still gotta program my brain to get into calorie deficit cut mode. I wanna throw myself right into it so I gotta get ready to do so.

Here's everything you need to know about nutrition:

- Your minimum protein requirement is 0.7g per pound of body weight per day
- Your minimum fat requirement is 0.4g per pound of body weight per day
- There are no specific requirements for carbohydrates. Do what feels best for you and allows you to hit calorie targets.
- Saturated fat is better off not exceeding 10% of your total daily calorie intake
- Added sugar (so this excludes natural sugar from fruit, milk etc. ) should not exceed 10% of your total daily calorie intake
- Eat lots of vegetables

And for the most part, that's really it.

The best diet is the one you can adhere to. Whether that means weighing and counting everything, pre planned and prepared meals, low carb dieting, fasting, whatever, it doesn't really matter that much. Again, it's just whatever will help you adhere to it.

[jkpel]

Heh man, thanks for your bottom line answers and letting me cut right to the knowledge I need.

1 question right now... does it help to eat more than 0.7gs of protein x lbs body weight per day? Like when I read the maximum should be 1.5gs of protein does that mean that I build more muscle than if I take 0.7gs?