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  1. #61
    Registered User notWilliam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TaeBoNinja View Post
    Context matters int he since that Kobe + another star = 5 rings/7 Finals. Lebron + TWO stars = 3 rings/8 Finals.

    Kobe in a landslide. Kobe + Love = rings. Kobe + Bosh = rings. Give Kobe Kyrie or Wade on top of that.....lol
    to be fair,
    2007 LBJ didnt have two stars.
    2015 Kyrie / Love both injured
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by notWilliam View Post
    to be fair,
    2007 LBJ didnt have two stars.
    2015 Kyrie / Love both injured
    I didn't count 2007, which is why it's 8 Finals and not 9.
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  3. #63
    Registered User AriGhold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TaeBoNinja View Post
    Keeping coping. You can't argue anything I wrote.
    I started typing that you couldn’t possibly be comparing Shaq to Love or bosh but I decided it wasn’t worth it. I’m sure you have heard that before.
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  4. #64
    Vagina Whisperer TaeBoNinja's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    I started typing that you couldn’t possibly be comparing Shaq to Love or bosh but I decided it wasn’t worth it. I’m sure you have heard that before.
    i didn't compare Shaq to Love, I pointed out that Kobe + another star = rings. Pau is on Love and Bosh's level, and Kobe won with him too. Replace Shaq with Pau and LA still gets 5-6 rings. No diss to Sahq, but that's just facts.

    Lebron on the other-hand.....needs two other stars just to even be in the conversation.

    Kobe + Pau = Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Ray > Lebron/Love/Kyrie
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by MBisonSon View Post
    Hmm, let's look at this from an intellectual standpoint:

    Jordan- 6 championships in 6 tries

    Kobe- 5 championships in 7 tries

    Lebron- 3 championships in 7 tries


    Yay math!!!
    That's not intellectual, since you're ignoring all of the other relevant information. It's actually the most dumbed down standpoint possible. It's actually so dumb that I'm surprised you didn't spell it 'itimalectuamal'.
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  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by Midgetkiller View Post
    That's not intellectual, since you're ignoring all of the other relevant information. It's actually the most dumbed down standpoint possible. It's actually so dumb that I'm surprised you didn't spell it 'itimalectuamal'.


    Oh its not a fair comparison?


    True or false: Lebron hand picked his team after his cavs contract:
    True.
    True or false: Lebron hand picked his team after his miami contract:
    True.
    True or False: Lebron hand picked his team for over half his career in the east and still has a worse record than Kobe/MJ by a mile:
    True.


    Anything other brilliant insight you want to bring into this debate?
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  7. #67
    test the limits RobParks2M's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SompletelyCober View Post
    Yikes I always thought this idiot was trolling but it seems like he's actually dumb enough to compare role players with rings like Kerr and Horry to top all time players like Kobe and LeBron who led their teams.

    No wonder this man is unemployable.
    I'm glad you agree that would be dumb. Because comparing levels of greatness strictly based on ring count is in fact stupid. Even though you didn't really understand exactly how thanks for agreeing with me. I'll be sure to head to your line when I check out in Walmart next time
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  8. #68
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    LeBron fans became Kobe fans in their tactics of argument, using things like "eye test" and "in my opinion" over things like stats and accomplishments that MJ will forever lead him in.
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  9. #69
    Registered User Belome's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TaeBoNinja View Post
    Replace Shaq with Pau and LA still gets 5-6 rings. No diss to Sahq, but that's just facts.
    There is no way in hell you are this stupid.

    You are baking Roll bread at 350.
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  10. #70
    Vagina Whisperer TaeBoNinja's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Belome View Post
    There is no way in hell you are this stupid.

    You are baking Roll bread at 350.
    Kobe + Pau still win aorund 3 rings, deal with it. They won 2 at the tail end of their primes.
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  11. #71
    Amongst La Familia isp's Avatar
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    Lebron officially passed Kobe when he won his 3rd Finals MVP. Kobe only has 2 of those because he was playing sidekick for Shaq
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  12. #72
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    Regular Season:

    Player A
    PPG: 27.2
    RPG: 7.4
    APG: 7.2
    SPG: 1.6
    BPG: 0.8
    FG%: .504
    3P%: .344
    FT%: .739

    Player B
    PPG: 25.0
    RPG: 5.2
    APG: 4.7
    SPG: 1.4
    BPG: 0.4
    FG%: .447
    3P%: .329
    FT%: .837


    Playoffs:

    Player A
    PPG: 28.8
    RPG: 8.9
    APG: 7.0
    SPG: 1.8
    BPG: 1.0
    FG%: .490
    3P%: .332
    FT%: .741

    Player B
    PPG: 25.6
    RPG: 5.1
    APG: 4.7
    SPG: 1.4
    BPG: 0.7
    FG%: .448
    3P%: .331
    FT%: .816
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  13. #73
    Sole Collector GotNext's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isp View Post
    Lebron officially passed Kobe when he won his 3rd Finals MVP. Kobe only has 2 of those because he was playing sidekick for Shaq
    Votes are great to decide popularity. Guess you also think Casey deserved the unanimous COTY over Stevens or D'Antoni this year.

    Some may prefer wins as a measure for success in sports. But thats just me (and everyone outside of sports misc and ESPN-level of retardation).
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  14. #74
    Registered User AriGhold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GotNext View Post
    Votes are great to decide popularity. Guess you also think Casey deserved the unanimous COTY over Stevens or D'Antoni this year.

    Some may prefer wins as a measure for success in sports. But thats just me (and everyone outside of sports misc and ESPN-level of retardation).
    Check the post above you
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  15. #75
    Registered User lsiberian's Avatar
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    Kobe is 24th in PER, 18th in WS, 57th in WS per 48, 37th in Plus/Minus, 17th in VORP

    Lebron is 1st in Plus/Minus, 2nd in PER, 4th in WS, 6th in WS per 48, 1st in VORP

    Statistically they aren't even in the same group of players.
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  16. #76
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    Originally Posted by MBisonSon View Post
    Hmm, let's look at this from an intellectual standpoint:

    Jordan- 6 championships in 6 tries

    Kobe- 5 championships in 7 tries

    Lebron- 3 championships in 7 tries


    Yay math!!!
    Greatest player not team. Championships are some of the worst arguments for greatest player. They definitely mean something in the discussion but to put that much weight on a team accolade lmao
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  17. #77
    Sole Collector GotNext's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    Check the post above you
    Those are stats, not wins. Last time I checked we measured them in championships.

    Originally Posted by lsiberian View Post
    Kobe is 24th in PER, 18th in WS, 57th in WS per 48, 37th in Plus/Minus, 17th in VORP

    Lebron is 1st in Plus/Minus, 2nd in PER, 4th in WS, 6th in WS per 48, 1st in VORP

    Statistically they aren't even in the same group of players.
    I think you're beating a dead horse (for the 100th time) here, we get it, one really cared about his stats, one really cared about winning.

    You are absolutely right that they are not in the same group of players (positive record in the finals vs negative record in the finals).
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  18. #78
    Quadfather StackingPlates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zerto View Post
    This. I mean, what kind of top 5 all-time player cant make the playoffs in his PRIME?
    Wilt Chamberlain missed the 1963 playoffs, at the age of 26, despite putting up 44.8PPG / 24.3RPG.

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar missed both the 1975 and 1976 playoffs, at the ages of 27-28, despite even winning the regular MVP award in 1976.
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  19. #79
    Sole Collector GotNext's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Wilt Chamberlain missed the 1963 playoffs, at the age of 26, despite putting up 44.8PPG / 24.3RPG.

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar missed both the 1975 and 1976 playoffs, at the ages of 27-28, despite even winning the regular MVP award in 1976.
    I guess that argument got kinda wrecked.
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    Kobe hasn’t even ever lead the league in win shares lul. I’ll say it again. How is a guy with 1 mvp in 20 years better than lebron
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    Originally Posted by GotNext View Post
    Those are stats, not wins. Last time I checked we measured them in championships.



    I think you're beating a dead horse (for the 100th time) here, we get it, one really cared about his stats, one really cared about winning.

    You are absolutely right that they are not in the same group of players (positive record in the finals vs negative record in the finals).
    Aren’t individual stats more telling of a player than a number attributed to a team? Or do you not look at it that way because the stats show you are wrong?
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  22. #82
    Registered User notWilliam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GotNext View Post
    Those are stats, not wins. Last time I checked we measured them in championships.



    I think you're beating a dead horse (for the 100th time) here, we get it, one really cared about his stats, one really cared about winning.

    You are absolutely right that they are not in the same group of players (positive record in the finals vs negative record in the finals).
    lol.
    this whole post is comical.

    your measurement of players is based on their team's performance in a limited sample size that fails to adjust for anything (including opponent).

    if the East is so horrendous, wouldnt that inflate a Western conference player's Finals record? or we do not take that into consideration
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    Aren’t individual stats more telling of a player than a number attributed to a team? Or do you not look at it that way because the stats show you are wrong?
    You can't have it all. Either you ONLY want to discuss the player - or you ONLY want to discuss the teams overall. In the middle it becomes muddy.

    If you only discuss the player, then rip away the entire basketball stuff around it and make it a discussion about who the greatest 1-on-1 player is. According to guys like T-Mac and KD, its Kobe, which even Jordan smirkingly agreed to.

    If you discuss the teams, then it must be about the team accolades, not individual stats which accumulate to finals losses. What the point, like StackingPlates said, having a Wilt-like statline (44.8PPG / 24.3RPG) and not make it to the playoffs or fall to another team.

    Originally Posted by notWilliam View Post
    lol.
    this whole post is comical.
    Ok, whats the right measurement for greatest individual player then? Talking "ceteris paribus", no "moderating variables" or whatever you want to name it.

    I'll wait.
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    Originally Posted by GotNext View Post
    Votes are great to decide popularity. Guess you also think Casey deserved the unanimous COTY over Stevens or D'Antoni this year.
    Are you suggesting that Kobe deserved more FMVPs or that LeBron deserved less?

    Originally Posted by GotNext View Post
    Ok, whats the right measurement for greatest individual player then? Talking "ceteris paribus", no "moderating variables" or whatever you want to name it.

    I'll wait.
    I don't know about greatest, but in basketball if someone is better than another at shooting, rebounding, passing, blocking and stealing the ball you can generally assume that he is the better player.
    Last edited by FakeRabona; 05-29-2018 at 09:04 AM.
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    Originally Posted by FakeRabona View Post
    Are you suggesting that Kobe deserved more FMVPs or that LeBron deserved less?



    I don't know about greatest, but in basketball if someone is better than another at shooting, rebounding, passing, blocking and stealing the ball you can generally assume that he is the better player.
    Clutch gene as well.

    Compare Kobe’s game 7s vs LeBron and you have to assume people who think Kobe is better are on some type of drugs.

    Game winnng shots? LeBron wins there to.

    They have no argument.
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    Originally Posted by Belome View Post
    Clutch gene as well.

    Compare Kobe’s game 7s vs LeBron and you have to assume people who think Kobe is better are on some type of drugs.

    Game winnng shots? LeBron wins there to.

    They have no argument.
    b-b-but mamba mentality!!
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    Originally Posted by FakeRabona View Post
    Are you suggesting that Kobe deserved more FMVPs or that LeBron deserved less?
    If you pull your head out of your arse you may be able to see that I suggest that I don't care if Kobe has more FMVPs or LeBron has less, because anything based on votes doesn't really matter in sports. Competition over beauty pageants.
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    Originally Posted by MBisonSon View Post
    Hmm, let's look at this from an intellectual standpoint:

    Jordan- 6 championships in 6 tries

    Kobe- 5 championships in 7 tries

    Lebron- 3 championships in 7 tries


    Yay math!!!
    Completely disregarding teammates/opponents is pretty much the furthest thing possible from an intellectual standpoint.

    Originally Posted by GotNext View Post
    You can't have it all. Either you ONLY want to discuss the player - or you ONLY want to discuss the teams overall. In the middle it becomes muddy.

    If you only discuss the player, then rip away the entire basketball stuff around it and make it a discussion about who the greatest 1-on-1 player is. According to guys like T-Mac and KD, its Kobe, which even Jordan smirkingly agreed to.

    If you discuss the teams, then it must be about the team accolades, not individual stats which accumulate to finals losses. What the point, like StackingPlates said, having a Wilt-like statline (44.8PPG / 24.3RPG) and not make it to the playoffs or fall to another team.
    Why are you limiting individual player discussion to who's better 1v1? There are plenty individual attributes that wouldn't show in a 1v1. Rebounding, passing, help defense, vision, etc.
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    Originally Posted by dtbrehm View Post
    Completely disregarding teammates/opponents is pretty much the furthest thing possible from an intellectual standpoint.



    Why are you limiting individual player discussion to who's better 1v1? There are plenty individual attributes that wouldn't show in a 1v1. Rebounding, passing, help defense, vision, etc.
    Because Kobe falls behind in those categories and he is always trying to shape the narrative.
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