Curious noob

[Time-Man]

I have been working out off and on for a long time , but started training very hard in January ,seeing as i decided that me turning 50 this year i want to look the best i have ever looked in my life age is just a number . Haven't had bad results , lost 9 % body fat and nearly 10kg's since december training everyday with my son in our home gym that i have built . Guess i have also been doing something right seeing as my measurements haven't dropped on my arms legs and chest even though my weight dropped by 10 kg's . I had posted the training routine i have been doing and needless to say everyone shot it down . So now going onto AlPro's routine . This is what i would like you guys to clear up for me .

His routine is simple and basic with compound lifts .What i would like to know is when and where would you then do different exercises like preacher curls , cable rowing , tricep press down , peck deck landmine squats ,etc etc . As i understand it once you can bench your own body weight and squat 1.5-2X your body weight you on the limit of that program . Would this then be when you start using different exercises ?
Would the basic compound lifts give you a all over body muscle growth and size ?
And once you have that then only would you do different lifts for fine sculpting muscles like your chest ie. doing incline/decline presses , fly's and cable cross over ? Or am i missing something here ?

[fluidZ]

heya,

you should just post this in to the AllPro thread... Nightanole is there and will be able to give you the best advice.


However from my limited experience with the routine, you can add an exercise or two after you've done a couple cycles of the base program. However, all of the work you plan on adding will likely ruin the program.

I'd suggest just picking one of the higher-volume routines suggested, such as Vikings Bare Bones or ICF 5x5.



A more general answer though is, depending on your progression as a lifter, the basic exercises are all you need... hitting every muscle from every angle isn't needed, and generally counterproductive until you are a more advanced lifter.

[SuffolkPunch]

Program design is a black art. It requires both knowledge and experience as inputs. It's entirely possible for a newbie to construct something that will be effective at first. The trouble comes when you reach a point around the intermediate level (see the exrx strength standards tables for an indication of where this lies). People start to run into brick walls ("plateaus") and some get past them through brute force whereas others flounder for years.

Unfortunately I can't give you simple foolproof "rules" about when you should add different isolation exercises, change up your main compounds etc. I can help with some general principles which might help.

1. Here is the first thing to read: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...1&pagenumber=1
2. Read the strength vs. mass guide here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=175493881
3. exercise variation should start off being small for novices - an emphasis on "directed adaptation". More exercises come with more volume and more frequent switches are needed for more experienced lifters.
4. Here is my guide on progression for intermediates:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=174402191

[ironwill2008]

I have been working out off and on for a long time , but started training very hard in January ,seeing as i decided that me turning 50 this year i want to look the best i have ever looked in my life age is just a number . Haven't had bad results , lost 9 % body fat and nearly 10kg's since december training everyday with my son in our home gym that i have built . Guess i have also been doing something right seeing as my measurements haven't dropped on my arms legs and chest even though my weight dropped by 10 kg's . I had posted the training routine i have been doing and needless to say everyone shot it down . So now going onto AlPro's routine . This is what i would like you guys to clear up for me .

His routine is simple and basic with compound lifts .What i would like to know is when and where would you then do different exercises like preacher curls , cable rowing , tricep press down , peck deck landmine squats ,etc etc . As i understand it once you can bench your own body weight and squat 1.5-2X your body weight you on the limit of that program . Would this then be when you start using different exercises ?
Would the basic compound lifts give you a all over body muscle growth and size ?
And once you have that then only would you do different lifts for fine sculpting muscles like your chest ie. doing incline/decline presses , fly's and cable cross over ? Or am i missing something here ?

It would be great if there were a simple rule, applicable to all trainees, that could be applied to this scenario, but there isn't. When to make changes in a program pretty much comes down to basing it on your own real-life experience based on what you've been doing for the past several months and your responses to that training.


About the best, 'one size fits all' advice I can offer is to stick with a program as-written, using all the parameters of that program, to squeeze out every last iota of gains that you possibly can realize. At that point, then might be the time to consider changing or adding an exercise or two, and then roll with those change(s) for another 3-4 months before evaluating what those changes did for you (or didn't). Don't be quick to drop something that previously has been working for you in favor of something else.


It's a process, and it takes a good deal of time to learn how you react to various training parameters. There's an old saying, applicable to just about every learning scenario; 'You get 10 years' experience in 10 years."

[Luca2]

Other good resource in addition to the excellent suggestions above (watch the whole playlist if you can - it's worth it):



If at some point you want to take a step further and spend a bit of money, Practical Programming for Strength Training by Rippetoe & Baker, or any ebook from Renaissance Periodization are safe bets.

[Time-Man]

Awesome . Thank you for all that answered . Ok so i was right in assuming that doing the basic compound lifts gives you bulk and muscle mass obviously provided your diet is in check , then once you have gained as much as you can you should theoretically hit a wall , and that is when the isolation and whole array of other exercises come into play . Got to say with all the media bull**** bombarding and the millions of training videos a noob like myself can get caught up into the "use this exercise for ultimate size or do this way to work your chest in all different directions" Also realized very quickly that these get this amazing 6 pack or build in just 12 weeks is the biggest load of crap . No wonder so many guys start training with this in mind and after 12 weeks basically nothing happened and loose motivation and quit back to the old routines .

Theoretically looking at allpro's program where you have 3 X compound lifts a week with rest in between and adding the weight resistance and giving your muscles time to rest in between days your muscles provided you eat correct has to grow ,as some one said its not rocket science

Also what i realized that refusing to go on gummy berry juice it will take much longer to get anywhere but to my mind that is the way to go and i'm instilling that way of thinking into my son as well , the fun part is with his age and test pumping like wild fire he is getting noobie gains like crazy and that is motivating him like hell

[ironwill2008]

Awesome . Thank you for all that answered . Ok so i was right in assuming that doing the basic compound lifts gives you bulk and muscle mass obviously provided your diet is in check , then once you have gained as much as you can you should theoretically hit a wall , and that is when the isolation and whole array of other exercises come into play . Got to say with all the media bull**** bombarding and the millions of training videos a noob like myself can get caught up into the "use this exercise for ultimate size or do this way to work your chest in all different directions" Also realized very quickly that these get this amazing 6 pack or build in just 12 weeks is the biggest load of crap . No wonder so many guys start training with this in mind and after 12 weeks basically nothing happened and loose motivation and quit back to the old routines .

YouTube has done more damage to good training and nutrition practices and then subsequently detour more beginners down into a bottomless rat hole than just about any other single media source I can think of. Sure, there are a couple of very good youtube channels, but the problem is that beginners don't yet know what they don't know, and can't yet determine who actually knows something and who's full of what comes out of the South end of a North-facing bull.

One other thing to keep in mind while navigating through mass media information; where weight training is concerned, there's nothing new under the sun. The same things that made Eugen Sandow big and strong 100 years ago still work the same today for anyone with the desire to improve and the drive to do hard work and eat and rest adequately.