BB Row Essential for Strong Back?

[ODoyle99]

Hey yall, I really want to focus on getting my back strength up--I think it's really lacking relative to everything else. I feel like my deadlift is in proportion but rowing or pulling anything else is weak.

The thing is, I hit squats and deads hard and I've always found BB Rows too taxing on my lower back and have never been able to get comfortable with it. Do I need to suck it up and get my lower back to deal with it? Or can I use Kroc Rows, strict DB Rows, and pull ups with good result?

Thanks for the help

[ECGordyn]

DB rows would be good, since you support your torso on the bench, and this doesn't tax the lower back. Pendlay rows are good too, since you rest a second between reps, and you can pull heavy weight with them. For me, DB rows take too long doing one side at a time, so I do Pendlays on upper day, almost always *after* lower day (squats and deads).

[imnotflexin]

i've built my back on different variations of dbs rows. being a home gym kinda guy for a long time all i had were dbs but my back is probably my strongest feature.

[Jason2459]

Sounds like your lower back is a weak link and you'd benefit on targeting that area.

Otherwise rows of all kinds are good.

[ODoyle99]

Thanks yall. I may try to get comfortable with BB Rows one more time and if not I'll just do DB and T-bar

[FaIIen]

I can relate to this, I've never liked bent over rows for that exact reason.

Been thinking of trying cheaty rows the way Cailer Woolam does them on one of my next cycles. Will probably have to sub them to were I usually have my secondary deadlift - at least to begin with. Since it is a clear weakness for me, it'd make sense to work on it.

[ODoyle99]

I can relate to this, I've never liked bent over rows for that exact reason.

Been thinking of trying cheaty rows the way Cailer Woolam does them on one of my next cycles. Will probably have to sub them to were I usually have my secondary deadlift - at least to begin with. Since it is a clear weakness for me, it'd make sense to work on it.

I haven't seen BB rows done like that, I may have to give it a shot. Seems kinda like a BB version of Kroc Rows (just recently found out the form difference between Kroc Rows and DB Rows. Kroc Rows use some "body english", stretch the lats at the bottom, pinch the shoulders at the top--Just like this guy does with a BB). I've tried plate loaded hammer strength stuff but all that does is get me good at that machine, it doesn't translate to anything else.

I think I'll give those BB Rows a shot. I'll probably end up going with Kroc and T Bar though, knowing me

[Anthony21]

I haven't seen BB rows done like that, I may have to give it a shot. Seems kinda like a BB version of Kroc Rows (just recently found out the form difference between Kroc Rows and DB Rows. Kroc Rows use some "body english", stretch the lats at the bottom, pinch the shoulders at the top--Just like this guy does with a BB). I've tried plate loaded hammer strength stuff but all that does is get me good at that machine, it doesn't translate to anything else.

I think I'll give those BB Rows a shot. I'll probably end up going with Kroc and T Bar though, knowing me

Kroc Rows primary purpose is to bang out an amrap with the heaviest DB you can use. It allows for more body english like you mentioned vs a db row.

I've seen some workout logs that state they did Kroc Row sfor 80lbs for 3 sets of 8. No that's not a Kroc Row that's just you doing a standard set of DB rows with a pre determined rep scheme.

It's also worth mentioning that Kroc Rows are just one main working set of 20 reps. So you would hit 2 warm up sets of 8-12 reps then your third set would be your 20 rep set.

[ODoyle99]

Kroc Rows primary purpose is to bang out an amrap with the heaviest DB you can use. It allows for more body english like you mentioned vs a db row.

I've seen some workout logs that state they did Kroc Row sfor 80lbs for 3 sets of 8. No that's not a Kroc Row that's just you doing a standard set of DB rows with a pre determined rep scheme.

It's also worth mentioning that Kroc Rows are just one main working set of 20 reps. So you would hit 2 warm up sets of 8-12 reps then your third set would be your 20 rep set.

Got it. Should the warm ups be strict like a DB row or same form as the top set?
Also, if I'm trying to grow my back, I'm guessing I'd have to hit something first and not use that as the main back lift for the day? Maybe T Bar (or pull downs) and then Kroc Rows?

Appreciate the help, man

[Jason2459]

Over thinking it. Do some back work every day if you can.

[Anthony21]

Got it. Should the warm ups be strict like a DB row or same form as the top set?
Also, if I'm trying to grow my back, I'm guessing I'd have to hit something first and not use that as the main back lift for the day? Maybe T Bar (or pull downs) and then Kroc Rows?

Appreciate the help, man

You can use the same form on the 2 warm up sets case you'd be using the same DB that you would for you amrap set.

If you want to grow your back the more back work you do is definitely going to be beneficial. You can do a vertical pull and a horizontal pull in a training session. Something like a Lat pull down followed by Kroc Rows would be solid. You can also do a T-Bar row followed by a Kroc Row if you want. Personally I'd do the Kroc Row first as you want to have the most energy for that then hit your T-Bar Row.

It's worth mentioning you also want to look at total back volume in a given week. I believe I was watching a vid with Mike Israetel where he mentioned that most intermediate-advanced lifters need at least 10 sets of direct back work per week to make gains. He also mentioned most people respond best to between 14 and 22 weekly sets on average. Just some food for thought when you're tracking your training.

[Garage Rat]

My favorite is the chest supported row bench for upper back work.
You can really focus on the target area without low back stress.
Low back gets plenty of work from squats and DL's.
Unless its a specific weakness do what you can to avoid extra low back work.

[ODoyle99]

Over thinking it. Do some back work every day if you can.

I know that ought to be the goal. I can usually kinda auto-regulate everything. My pull moves haven't been responding to it though, everything else has benefitted from (mostly) lack of direction but pulling has really been hurt by it.

You can use the same form on the 2 warm up sets case you'd be using the same DB that you would for you amrap set.

If you want to grow your back the more back work you do is definitely going to be beneficial. You can do a vertical pull and a horizontal pull in a training session. Something like a Lat pull down followed by Kroc Rows would be solid. You can also do a T-Bar row followed by a Kroc Row if you want. Personally I'd do the Kroc Row first as you want to have the most energy for that then hit your T-Bar Row.

It's worth mentioning you also want to look at total back volume in a given week. I believe I was watching a vid with Mike Israetel where he mentioned that most intermediate-advanced lifters need at least 10 sets of direct back work per week to make gains. He also mentioned most people respond best to between 14 and 22 weekly sets on average. Just some food for thought when you're tracking your training.

Huge help, thanks man. Seriously appreciate it

My favorite is the chest supported row bench for upper back work.
You can really focus on the target area without low back stress.
Low back gets plenty of work from squats and DL's.
Unless its a specific weakness do what you can to avoid extra low back work.

So far I've been relying on the chest supported row and hammer strength stuff. It just hasn't been doing the trick =/ But ya, I don't think lower back is a weakness in big moves, it just gets hit hard from the big moves, if that makes sense? That's why I hopped in here. I was ready to phone it out and get some advice after lats and upper back just aren't improving. I'll probably keep chest supported rows in there though, but more as accessory instead of the main work

[Jason2459]

Fyi training the back in some way doesn't mean doing rows every day. Rows of any kind, pull ups in various ways, rear delt work by any means, etc

Could be pull ups, fat man Rows, face pulls, db rows, band pull aparts, barbell row, hypers, etc anything that hits the back area. Hit something back there every training session if not every day.

[SA249]

Fyi training the back in some way doesn't mean doing rows every day. Rows of any kind, pull ups in various ways, rear delt work by any means, etc

Could be pull ups, fat man Rows, face pulls, db rows, band pull aparts, barbell row, hypers, etc anything that hits the back area. Hit something back there every training session if not every day.

He is wise. You should listen.

[ODoyle99]

Fyi training the back in some way doesn't mean doing rows every day. Rows of any kind, pull ups in various ways, rear delt work by any means, etc

Could be pull ups, fat man Rows, face pulls, db rows, band pull aparts, barbell row, hypers, etc anything that hits the back area. Hit something back there every training session if not every day.

He is wise. You should listen.

Will do. I used to try to incorporate rear delt work every day, 2x15 DB flyes. I need to add those back in too--helped warm up my shoulder for just about anything.

Thanks for the help yall