Betaine TMG vs Betaine HCL

[SurfSteve]

I used to love taking TMG. It made me feel great, was supposed to detoxify me and helped with my workouts; but I had to stop taking it because it gave me bad breath.

A few days ago on a whim I ordered some Betaine HCL. It's not as popular in the body building community and it's common usage is for weak stomach acid and promoting digestion. As soon as I ordered it I regretted my decision and thought about what the TMG did to my breath and how I already drink tons of Apple Cider Vinegar and eat tons of lemons.

The HCL arrived last night and I took quite a bit of it. IT'S VERY ACID! Upon awakening this morning my lungs and sinuses feel clear of mucus. My joints and muscles also feel way less stiff! My only concern is that it will give me bad breath or that I may not be able to handle the acid but I seem to crave the acid just like vinegar and lemons. In fact my digestion feels like it's on fire and that I have the digestion of a 20 year old!

I googled HCL and bad breath and instead of causing it one person claimed that betaine HCL got rid of it.

Too early to tell. But this just might be what I been needing!

Anyone else familiar with these supplements?

https://www.foodrenegade.com/hcl-not-just-supplement/
http://divinehealthfromtheinsideout....ochloric-acid/
https://scdlifestyle.com/2013/10/4-c...-hcl-mistakes/
https://blog.kettleandfire.com/leaky-gut-supplements/
https://legionathletics.com/betaine/
https://draxe.com/what-is-betaine/
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...sis-bad-breath

[SurfSteve]

I asked my ex girlfriend if the HCL form gave me bad breath the way the TMG form does and she said NO. Hopefully she's telling me the truth and not setting me up for disaster with the new girl. It's too bad the TMG form gives such bad breath because it tastes great and I could eat it all day long like candy; while the HCL form tastes horrible. I'm just glad that it seems like I found a socially acceptable form that I can take.

They both seem to work equally awesome as a pre workout but the HCL form seems to do loads better at dissolving mucus and aid digestion.

Both cost the same; and in bulk and at around twenty dollars a kilogram are ridiculously cheap.

I never did or heard of anybody complain about taking the TMG form in powder but they usually take the HCL form in capsules and complain about taking the granules in water big time, saying it burns their eso****us. I must have a cast iron stomach because it doesn't bother mine at all. I just make sure to try and not get any on my teeth while drinking it and rinse my mouth out really good with water.

As someone who loves to put vinegar and lemons on everything I eat I imagine my reaction probably isn't typical and HCL form would probably make most people gag.

Betaine has got to be the most under rated supplement on the planet! Farmers have known about it for years and give it to their livestock to help them gain more muscle mass on less feed and keep them from getting disease. Before that betaine was considered a waste product after all the healthy stuff from making sugar from beets are removed. Maybe it will never catch on due to the side effects of either tasting horrible an being acidifying or in it's other form giving horrible breath by apparently expelling toxins through the lungs; and always remain a cheap and unpopular supplement.

[eatyourspinach]

betaine anhydrous is in a ton of supplements so it's pretty popular but the HCL version is harsh on the stomach and tooth enamel

[SurfSteve]

I guess you could say it's popular in a fat girl on a moped sort of way. Nobody wants to admit that it's one of the main things that makes their overpriced supplements work. Also they can't put too much in them on account of the bad breath issue. I read that you can safely take up to a teaspoon a day with out having to worry about your breath. If it weren't for that you could down it by the tablespoon several times a day. It is my understanding that the HCL is the form that the farmers give to their animals to keep them healthy.

Getting it past my teeth without resorting to putting it into capsules is quite challenging. Even after trying to avoid getting it on them and rinsing my mouth out with water I noticed it loosened the plaque on my teeth, which I was unaware I even had till it started coming off and I used a pick to get rid of the rest of it. Hopefully it will do the same thing internally and dissolve any plaque that may have formed in my arteries. It seems to really help with stiffness in my joints which is surprising because I don't remember reading it did that.

Also I have issue with calling the TMG form anhydrous as is commonly done. Technically both forms are anhydrous i.e. without water and it makes me wonder if that term is used to sneak in a little of both into proprietary supplements.

[eatyourspinach]

I guess you could say it's popular in a fat girl on a moped sort of way. Nobody wants to admit that it's one of the main things that makes their overpriced supplements work. Also they can't put too much in them on account of the bad breath issue. I read that you can safely take up to a teaspoon a day with out having to worry about your breath. If it weren't for that you could down it by the tablespoon several times a day. It is my understanding that the HCL is the form that the farmers give to their animals to keep them healthy.

Getting it past my teeth without resorting to putting it into capsules is quite challenging. Even after trying to avoid getting it on them and rinsing my mouth out with water I noticed it loosened the plaque on my teeth, which I was unaware I even had till it started coming off and I used a pick to get rid of the rest of it. Hopefully it will do the same thing internally and dissolve any plaque that may have formed in my arteries. It seems to really help with stiffness in my joints which is surprising because I don't remember reading it did that.

Also I have issue with calling the TMG form anhydrous as is commonly done. Technically both forms are anhydrous i.e. without water and it makes me wonder if that term is used to sneak in a little of both into proprietary supplements.

Taking a lot might cause some GI distress and I don't know if they would be able to label it the same way if it contained betaine hcl since betaine anhydrous is an approved treatment for homocystinuria which might complicate things.

[AMeyer9]

betaine anhydrous is in a ton of supplements so it's pretty popular but the HCL version is harsh on the stomach and tooth enamel

I was under the impression HCL was literally the exact opposite, it makes digestion easier

[eatyourspinach]

I was under the impression HCL was literally the exact opposite, it makes digestion easier

Yeah but if you are taking something like a teaspoonful like mentioned that could make your stomach too acidic.

[powercage]

I was under the impression HCL was literally the exact opposite, it makes digestion easier

Causes GI distress much more easily than anhydrous/TMG

[SurfSteve]

There's a lot of controversy over stomach PH. Antacids are prescribed by doctors and eaten like candy when evidence exists that the problem is actually too little stomach acid.

[powercage]

Antacids are prescribed by doctors and eaten like candy when evidence exists that the problem is actually too little stomach acid.

False

[SurfSteve]

False

https://www.google.com/search?num=50....0.ZEQuQBHR2Ho

[powercage]

https://www.google.com/search?num=50....0.ZEQuQBHR2Ho

yes?

[AMeyer9]

Yeah but if you are taking something like a teaspoonful like mentioned that could make your stomach too acidic.

Ahh... I assumed we were talking realistic amounts but I suppose I could see that.

[SurfSteve]

yes?

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3505661

http://www.rense.com/general67/theevilantacidmyth.htm

[powercage]

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3505661

http://www.rense.com/general67/theevilantacidmyth.htm

Nothing you have posted has addressed what I responded to. You are actually proving my point.

[SurfSteve]

Nothing you have posted has addressed what I responded to. You are actually proving my point.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

[powercage]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Agreed. I am skeptical of the prevalence of doctors prescribing antacids at random to treat low stomach acid production.

[SurfSteve]

Agreed. I am skeptical of the prevalence of doctors prescribing antacids at random to treat low stomach acid production.

I think you got it backwards. I never claimed doctors prescribed antacids to treat low stomach acid. I claimed doctors prescribe antacids for acid reflux, which lowers stomach acid, making the problem worse because acid reflux is believed by many to be caused by low stomach acid, not high stomach acid as is believed by many doctors.

The antacids temporarily make the acid reflux better in the same way taking a drink makes an alcoholic feel better all the while making the problem worse in the long run.

Are we clear now?

[powercage]

Antacids are prescribed by doctors and eaten like candy when evidence exists that the problem is actually too little stomach acid.

I never claimed doctors prescribed antacids to treat low stomach acid.

this is the issue. It seemed like you were saying they were prescribing antacids for too little stomach acid

[SurfSteve]

this is the issue. It seemed like you were saying they were prescribing antacids for too little stomach acid

It would be much better for everyone if you just admit you misread what I had said instead of making it into an issue.

[powercage]

It would be much better for everyone if you just admit you misread what I had said instead of making it into an issue.

lol what

If you used commas correctly there wouldnt be an issue

[SurfSteve]

Betaine HCL will fix weak stomach acid, the major cause of acid reflux, while antacids only mask the symptoms and make the long term problem worse. Weak stomach acids can lead to a whole host of problems. Strong stomach acid is the immune systems first line of defense in killing germs, while at the same time breaking down food so it can be properly digested. No matter how nutritious your diet is, you can only benefit from what you can digest. If you're not going to digest your expensive supplements you might as well just dump them down the toilet and eliminate the middle man...

I've also learned that stomach acid gets recycled. So it may be that you can just take betaine HCL for a while and then back off or even quit it all together for a while once digestion is up to par. Also, the older you get the weaker your stomach acid tends to become, making it more important to take. Betaine HCL can interfere with some medications but I would question their validity if something as basic as proper digestion interferes with them...

[SurfSteve]

lol what

If you used commas correctly there wouldnt be an issue

LOL. What? If I would use comas correctly, there wouldn't be an issue?

[powercage]

Antacids are prescribed by doctors and eaten like candy when evidence exists that the problem is actually too little stomach acid.

Vs

"Antacids are prescribed by doctors and eaten like candy, when evidence exists that the problem is actually too little stomach acid."


Two different meanings

[SurfSteve]

Ah. Now I see how foolish of me it was to argue with you. Please accept my apology!

[powercage]

Ah. Now I see how foolish of me it was to argue with you. Please accept my apology!

No worries

[SurfSteve]

Betaine HCL so far has been a miracle for me. Even a whole tablespoon mixed in a glass of water doesn't seem to bother me. Yet I'm sure if I drank a glass of apple cider vinegar I would be seriously hurting from it. The apple cider vinegar has a PH of 5 but a tablespoon of Betaine HCL in a glass of water has a PH of around 1 and doesn't bother me, only giving me a warm feeling which I don't mind.

I just can't figure out how I am able to tolerate that much acid. In fact I seem to thrive on it.

PH of 5 is the same PH as vinegar
PH of 4 is ten times more acid than 5
PH of 3 is 100 times more acid than 5
PH of 2 is 1000 times more acid than 5
PH of 1 is 10,000 times more acid than 5, or the PH of vinegar!

That is seriously acid!

It must not be the amount of acid, but the type of acid, as far as tolerating it goes. Vinegar is a different type of acid than stomach acid but Betaine HCL is the exact same kind.

I've read that calcium is used by the pancreas to neutralize the acid in your stomach. Otherwise it would burn a hole in your small intestines. I'm thinking that the aches and pains I had before I started taking betaine HCL were from too much calcium built up where it didn't belong and that my body used that excess calcium in places it didn't belong to buffer all the excess HCL. Seems like once it is all used up that my body could take calcium from my bones and in places it belongs! Hopefully I'll be able to tell when I've reached that point. I suppose I could just start taking extra calcium but that sounds like a stupid idea and at that point it just makes sense to cut down on the HCL instead. I still have one small area in my back that's been hurting ever since I was a kid. Once that's gone I intend to cut way back on the HCL or maybe sooner if I stop getting results. It could be a different problem, that betaine HCL wont cure!

Besides aches and pains I've noticed a lot of other remarkable health benefits from taking it. The tartar on my teeth is gone. My skin has cleared up immensely. I've also started taking loads of collagen for that too; which I could never take before, because whenever I did I would get a cold and bad cold sores, presumably from all the arginine. Viruses feed on arginine. I guess the trick is for the body to use it before the viruses get their chance to use it first.

The side effects from taking collagen seem to be totally gone since I started taking HCL. At first I tried taking monolauren along with the collagen to avoid colds and cold sores. And it actually worked pretty good. Then I thought about it and felt, that maybe I wasn't digesting all the protein from the collagen and all the meat I been eating and that it would be a good idea to take something to help with that. I ordered the betaine HCL on a whim for just that purpose. I had no idea that so many other health problems would be eliminated before I started taking it; but it makes sense. Even the best diet is only as good as your digestion. Fixing my digestion (I didn't even know there was anything wrong with it.) has fixed a whole bunch of other problems that I had no idea were even related to it.

[SurfSteve]

I just got through re reading my last post and I've realized that the spot in my back that I was complaining about hurting ever since I was a little kid is gone. I haven't worked out in 2 weeks but I've been helping a friend move and lifting lots of heavy stuff in ways I'm not used to with controlled weights, so I think it's pretty remarkable that I'm not hurting from it.

I've also cut down on taking the betaine HCL but still take as much as a tablespoon once a day. Been eating a lot of corn on the cob lately and I can totally digest it. Before HCL I could always tell when I ate corn on the cob the next day in the bathroom. I seem to be able to eat all kinds of foods I quit eating many years ago and can now totally digest them.

I read that the acid resumes it's former PH within 30 to 70 minutes after taking betaine HCL and that it is broken down into what the body needs to make it's own HCL. So it's not necessary to take it before every meal though it is a lot easier on the stomach if you take it just before your first bite or swallow. I believe that if you eat a few bites first like some people believe in, that your stomach starts releasing it's own HCL that it has made so you will be adding more acid on top of that.

I think I'll keep taking it. At least for now...

[Christoffer81]

I just got through re reading my last post and I've realized that the spot in my back that I was complaining about hurting ever since I was a little kid is gone. I haven't worked out in 2 weeks but I've been helping a friend move and lifting lots of heavy stuff in ways I'm not used to with controlled weights, so I think it's pretty remarkable that I'm not hurting from it.

I've also cut down on taking the betaine HCL but still take as much as a tablespoon once a day. Been eating a lot of corn on the cob lately and I can totally digest it. Before HCL I could always tell when I ate corn on the cob the next day in the bathroom. I seem to be able to eat all kinds of foods I quit eating many years ago and can now totally digest them.

I read that the acid resumes it's former PH within 30 to 70 minutes after taking betaine HCL and that it is broken down into what the body needs to make it's own HCL. So it's not necessary to take it before every meal though it is a lot easier on the stomach if you take it just before your first bite or swallow. I believe that if you eat a few bites first like some people believe in, that your stomach starts releasing it's own HCL that it has made so you will be adding more acid on top of that.

I think I'll keep taking it. At least for now...

Interesting. I have also reacted very well to Betaine HCL. My stomach is feeling much better, stool is regular and in solid shape. Also, my fatigue, anxiety and depression seems to have disappeared. Mental focus is also much better.

[SurfSteve]

I wish I could take a ton of betaine HCL like I can betaine TMG. Anybody ever tried mixing TMG with an acid to get rid of the body odor it causes? I took a couple tablespoons of TMG and a tablespoon of malic acid about an hour before and an hour after in hopes of it canceling out the odor it will cause. I also been thinking maybe I can mix the two forms of betaine together in a 50/50 ratio or maybe even double the TMG.

It seems to have knocked the hell out of any pain I was feeling all week! Both malic acid and TMG are known for promoting strength and endurance as well as getting rid of pain by eliminating it's cause. I can't take too much HCL but I would be eating TMG like candy if it weren't for the severe body odor it causes. I been off all supplements for several months and my workouts have suffered.