Intermediate U/L for Powerbuilding

[-Thomas-]

Correct. It’s right under the workout descriptions.

Arh thank you ! I have totally overlooked that ! I though the first workout was a bit heavy btw

[OcTwenty]

Hello grouchyjarhead

Could you please give me 1 alternative exercises for GHR that i can do at home please? I have a power rack, barbells, bench, dumbbells . Thanks. I was thinking Hip Thrusts?

Oh yh, As far as progression goes, after 2 cycles, im guessing you take a deload/new 1rm test week, then restart cycle at 80% again? cheers

[-Thomas-]

Hello grouchyjarhead

Could you please give me 1 alternative exercises for GHR that i can do at home please? I have a power rack, barbells, bench, dumbbells . Thanks. I was thinking Hip Thrusts?

Oh yh, As far as progression goes, after 2 cycles, im guessing you take a deload/new 1rm test week, then restart cycle at 80% again? cheers

db swing

[TheGymJim]

Hello grouchyjarhead

Could you please give me 1 alternative exercises for GHR that i can do at home please? I have a power rack, barbells, bench, dumbbells . Thanks. I was thinking Hip Thrusts?

Oh yh, As far as progression goes, after 2 cycles, im guessing you take a deload/new 1rm test week, then restart cycle at 80% again? cheers

Nordic ham curls are your best bet. Get a resistance band to assist if you can't do them at bodyweight. Any hip hinge will do in a pinch so hip thrusts will work, but it's better if you can include the knee flexion aspect, too.

[grouchyjarhead]

Nordic ham curls are your best bet. Get a resistance band to assist if you can't do them at bodyweight. Any hip hinge will do in a pinch so hip thrusts will work, but it's better if you can include the knee flexion aspect, too.

^^Beat me to it. Great answer, cannot rep you again yet though.

[OcTwenty]

Hey grouchy
I stared lifting as an overweight individual so ive also ways been inn a small caloric deficit meaning ive not been able to milk linear gains along as other new lifters who have started lifting in a caloric surplus, im now at the stage where its a real grind to add weight to the bar each workout which is affecting my recovery. My question to you is, somebody in my situation, how is it best to progress on this program long term? add 5 pound to upper and 10 pound to lower at the end of each cycle and repeat?

[grouchyjarhead]

You could, but if you’re retesting your estimated rep max every three months and using a training percentage you will be able to progress a bit faster than that.

[Barbecuebarbell]

I have to say first and foremost your beginner powerbuilding program worked incredibly well for me. I recommend it to everyone I meet. I ran it for many months, then started eating even more and starting taking 5mg of creatine a day which gave me a few more months' progress on top of it. I now weight 250lbs at 6 foot 2 and am not fat. I benched 315 the other day relatively easily. I deadlifted 475, squatted 395, and pressed 212. I work up to the 130lb dumbbells for kroc rows and was using 315 for the pendlays. Suffice to say I also put on a good amount of size and my arms cold flexed measure 17 inches.

All that being said, I have to admit I am a bit disappointed at the looks of this intermediate program. It is my understanding that a novice program allows the lifter to progress in weight from workout to workout, this is the definition of novice according to starting strength, etc. Now, intermediates have exhausted these novice gains and must switch to being able to progress every other workout to every week and sometimes on a biweekly basis as well. Fierce 5 Intermediate Upper/Lower is a perfect example of a normal type of intermediate progression i.e. every other week one adds weight to the bar. Now I am by no way saying your Intermediate program does not work. Not at all. It is just that I do not know if I trust it enough to give it three months just to see if it may or may not add a few pounds to my lifts. I was so beyond excited when you released the link to the intermediate version of what gave me so much progress! And now I am honestly scared to give it a try. I just cannot see how using the same weights month to month can yield any sort of increase in a 1rm that would be more than what a normal intermediate routine would produce.

Let's paint a scenario: Say someone runs this program for three months. Pretend AT BEST they add 20lbs to their bench, 15lbs to their press, 30lbs to their squat and 35lbs to their deadlift. This is decent for sure, but not nearly as quick in terms of progression as an intermediate could be making. Now lets take that same person, rewind time and put them on an intermediate program that adds 5lbs to their upper body lifts every other week and 10lbs to their lower body lifts. In that same 12 week period they would have added 30lbs to their bench and press and 60lbs to their squat and deadlift. I just do not see a program using the same weights each cycle providing increases in a 1RM that would be greater or even close to that. Do you have any examples of people that have run this program and what their results were? I am not trying to be negative as I loved your other program and honestly really would like this program to work. I just feel like I need some data to review.

[TLWeight]

You could, but if you’re retesting your estimated rep max every three months and using a training percentage you will be able to progress a bit faster than that.

Possible to run twice a week?
(Highschool bull)
I’m still a novice running a novice program but just looking at what i can do later on

[grouchyjarhead]

Possible to run twice a week?
(Highschool bull)
I’m still a novice running a novice program but just looking at what i can do later on

Not really designed for it. You might be better off with a more intermediate twice a week approach like Tactical Barbell's Fighter template or the two day a week 531 option.

[rsid97]

Doesn't appear to be too many proper powerbuilding routines floating around so nice to see this coming up.

Just had a few questions -

1) I know its meant for intermediates by why would you not suggest programming in a mandatory testing week at the end of a Macro cycle? Or maybe even every two. Or maybe even just a top set of a single on week 4 of a Macro cycle perhaps? Essentially I'm trying to wrap my head around using the same 1RM for 3 months. Unless this was intended as a really late intermediate routine where strength gains aren't coming even on monthly periods. Curious to hear your thoughts.

I'm running GST at the moment (from the stickies) which is a purely hypertrophy focused routine and it works around similarly increasing percentages over a period of 4 weeks, similar to your program. But what it has you doing is on week 4 you're using 90-100% of your 1RM as well as a potential AMRAP on your 3 sets of compounds so you've got 2 chances to increase your 1RM. So if you feel like its a good day then you can go for a bit over a 100% to set a new PR or you could try getting more than a rep on your 90-100% weight which could also do the job so there's always that chance to regulate things if the opportunity arises to increase your 1RM (is what I'm getting at).

How do you feel about doing something similar where there first set of the 10x3 on week 4 is an attempt at a new 1RM PR and then following the usual prescribed % for the remaining sets?

2) The other question I had was with regard to the AMRAP on Krok rows. I was curious to hear your logic behind that rep range rather than having a typically defined rep range like the other lifts (eg - 8-12).

3) How do you feel about making substituitions on the RDLs and front squats depending on individual sticking points? (since this is partially a strength improving routine too). For example, swapping RDLs with deficit deadlifts at a lower rep range if the lifter had trouble with breaking the weight off the floor on his usual deadlifts. Or rack pulls if he had trouble with lockouts as another example. And just keeping it as RDLs if his deads were progressing nicely and just wanted the extra leg hypertrophy.

4) My last question was related to shoulder isolation work. Obviously front delts get blasted but do you not value having a dedicated rear delt move (facepulls) for shoulder health? As well as a dedicated side delt move (cable lateral raise) for the bodybuilding purposes? I thought they might fit in quite nicely at the end of a lower workout or in place of calf raises (for the no calf training crew,lol).

All in all, its pretty cool that you're doing this man.

[Metalmank]

Question.

Would it not be more optimal for strength gains to do the 10x3 off of your 1rm versus training 1rm? Heavier the better right? As long if form isnt compromised.

[78novacaine]

I'm gonna give this program a run while on a moderate cut for a couple cycles, it looks like a good way to maintain strength while in a deficit without getting too banged up. Used your beginner routine a couple years back and really enjoyed it, I like the way this one is programmed as well.

[grouchyjarhead]

Sorry for the late responses.

(1) I know its meant for intermediates by why would you not suggest programming in a mandatory testing week at the end of a Macro cycle? Or maybe even every two. Or maybe even just a top set of a single on week 4 of a Macro cycle perhaps? Essentially I'm trying to wrap my head around using the same 1RM for 3 months. Unless this was intended as a really late intermediate routine where strength gains aren't coming even on monthly periods. Curious to hear your thoughts.

This is more for someone who cannot add weight regularly on a weekly basis. One block didn’t seem like an adequate amount of time when this was in its (limited) testing stages. Two is about right, three for those who struggled a bit or really enjoyed the training.

How do you feel about doing something similar where there first set of the 10x3 on week 4 is an attempt at a new 1RM PR and then following the usual prescribed % for the remaining sets?

Going for a new 1RM and then pulling 9 sets after at close to 90% sounds positively brutal. 5x5 @ 90% for squats in the Texas Method is horrendous most days, so I can’t even imagine that. I wouldn’t try it.

2) The other question I had was with regard to the AMRAP on Krok rows. I was curious to hear your logic behind that rep range rather than having a typically defined rep range like the other lifts (eg - 8-12).

Kroc Rows tends to be better suited to high reps. We tried percentages and different rep ranges but it got both too complicated to determine working weights and often got easier than they should be. It’s a simple but effective exercise to begin with, so like the beginner program sticking with AMRAP sets seemed the most effective.

3) How do you feel about making substituitions on the RDLs and front squats depending on individual sticking points? (since this is partially a strength improving routine too). For example, swapping RDLs with deficit deadlifts at a lower rep range if the lifter had trouble with breaking the weight off the floor on his usual deadlifts. Or rack pulls if he had trouble with lockouts as another example. And just keeping it as RDLs if his deads were progressing nicely and just wanted the extra leg hypertrophy.

Definitely doable - I mention the supplementary exercises are just my personal recommendations. It would take some cautious experimentation to find which set/rep range worked the best but it is possible. I would run a few blocks as written first to get a feel for things before you start any substitutions.

4) My last question was related to shoulder isolation work. Obviously front delts get blasted but do you not value having a dedicated rear delt move (facepulls) for shoulder health? As well as a dedicated side delt move (cable lateral raise) for the bodybuilding purposes? I thought they might fit in quite nicely at the end of a lower workout or in place of calf raises (for the no calf training crew,lol).

All in all, its pretty cool that you're doing this man.

I didn’t include specific programming for things like face pulls and calves as those tend to be individual things and as before open to adding in or replacing as needed. Aside from the main lifts the others are just my recommendations.

[grouchyjarhead]

Question.

Would it not be more optimal for strength gains to do the 10x3 off of your 1rm versus training 1rm? Heavier the better right? As long if form isnt compromised.

With the shorter rest periods the training max tends to be a bit more forgiving during the first few blocks. If all you do is strength train and you have no other activities outside of that, you can try basing off of a true 1RM. I had two guys try that, they hated it and went back to the training max. Your mileage may vary however.

[78novacaine]

First day down with this program and I have high hopes. I will update in a couple of weeks. I'm using IF to keep calories in a deficit for the next 6-8 weeks and running this program to maintain strength for the duration before going back to my normal 5/3/1 programming. I did make one substitution of close grip bench for skullcrushers which would trash my elbows.

Bench - (220# TM) 10×3 @ 175#
Chins - I'm fat at the moment so did these with a little band help
Pendlays - 4×6 @ 155#
Close grip paused bench - 4×12 @ 115#
Added some Duffin Upright Rows for shoulder health at the end - 2×25

[grouchyjarhead]

Sounds great, looking forward to seeing your progress.

[78novacaine]

Sounds great, looking forward to seeing your progress.

I started a log in the powerlifting section if you want to check in on that, but so far so good after 2 weeks on the program. I wouldn't see myself sticking with it after this 8-12 week expirement is over, just due to the fact that the 10×3 setup does tend to get a bit stale day in and day out. But I have faith that it's the right amount of work for my current goals, so I will stick it out.

With the presses I've been able to actually reduce the rest time to about 60 seconds and still keep bar speed moving well. Squats and deads not so much, 10×3 @ 385 pulls was rough today, might have to up the rest periods by 10 seconds or so when I bump up another 10# next week. You did say sumo pullers had better luck with this structure and I'm a conventional, but I think I'll be able to survive it by raising the rest periods slightly as needed.

[ZT89]

Ive ran 3 blocks of operator and once im done with the 4th im definitely curious to try this... great write up.

Would you say there is a way to incorporate the wcus as a "main" lift for someone with no interest in powerlifting?

Regarding the 90 secs, how vital is that to progress? Could you work towards that from block to block?

Ive read all TB books so I understand what youre doing repeating the same %

EDIT: Also, would you recommend different ''clusters''? For example swapping BSQ with FSQ, using Box Squats, Trap Deadlifts, etc. Again, with a mindset of training for strength, and not training for powerlifting (which is two completely different things imo).

[grouchyjarhead]

Would you say there is a way to incorporate the wcus as a "main" lift for someone with no interest in powerlifting?

Also, would you recommend different ''clusters''? For example swapping BSQ with FSQ, using Box Squats, Trap Deadlifts, etc. Again, with a mindset of training for strength, and not training for powerlifting (which is two completely different things imo).

There is definitely plenty of room to experiment and change things as you see fit. This is only one of many different possibilities. The 90 seconds is Waterbury's recommendation because otherwise the workouts tend to get quite long.

[Doyoueven2020]

Program looks great. Is there any other rep/set schemes besides 10-3? Could you do say a 5x5?

[almafuert]

Hi! I really like the program. I did some modifications due to my wrist injury and some personal preference. I added some shoulder work and swtiched deadlift for romanian deadlift as the primary movement in lower B. The accesory in lower A will be leg curl and back extensions.
Are this changes correct?

UPPER WORKOUT A.
• Bench Press 10x3
• Incline Bench 4x6
• Weighted Chin-Ups 4x6
• Pendlay Rows 4x6
• Skullcrushers 4x12/Reverse flies 4x12

LOWER WORKOUT A.
• Back Squat 10x3
• Back extensions 4x6
• Leg Press 4x12
• Leg Curl 4x12

UPPER WORKOUT B.
• Landmine Press 10x3(cant hold bar in front due to a wrist injury)
• Lat Pulldowns 4x6
• Barbell Curls 4x12/Face pulls 4x12
• Kroc Rows 4x AMRAP

LOWER WORKOUT B.
• Romanian Deadlift 10x3
• Pause Squat 4x6 (cant hold bar in front due to a wrist injury)
• Glute Ham Raises 4x12
• Calf Raises 4x12