Cut or bulk first for flat stomach?

[lustforlife2]

Hey guys.

I am between a rock and a hard place and would like to seek some advice. I am 25/f/5ft6. Over the past 9 years I have gone from being 16.5 stone to my current weight, sitting around 9st.4lbs.

Previously, I had been 9st 11lbs and 21% body fat (this is a reading my digital scales gave me combined with a measurement as directed by a rough guide on the internet - both gave the same result).

I haven't had much time around studying my Masters to train and even though have dropped to 9st 4lbs, my body fat has jumped up and at current goes between 25-27%. I has s****osis, with a convex curve to the right on the lower spine.

Having lost so much weight, I am the typical skinny-fat type where with clothes on I look very slim but without, my stomach looks awful, I have an overhang, loose skin on my tum and thighs make me look more like a 35-40% bodyfat bodytype (unless I am and my scales are wrong? (fortunately, not as bad as some I've seen), no boobs and a lot of weight sits on my hips - but I know there is some hope!

I have witnessed some amazing transformations to women's body shapes and I know that with enough hard work and effort that I can make it there too. I am glutenfree and vegan, I shift between low carb vegan and higher carb cycling days when I train for aerial hoops and silks (usually Mondays and Thursdays) and willbe joining the gym again when all my deadlines are complete by February 1st.

I work in a bar so late night shifts but I don't drink, my two downfalls are at times: drinking tea like it's going out of fashion and occasionally having crisps or nuts from behind the bar. I feel like these are stress responses, but my new years resolution is to be better prepared and to abstain from snacks.

Bit of a sucker for chocolate and I love peanut butter, but I usually go for a high percentage dark chocolate and organic peanut butter without salt. Breakfast is usually a smoothie with berries, banana, peanut butter and nut milk with a scoop of hemp protein *and oats on higher carb days).

Can anyone recommend a training regime that will compliment all of these, and indicate to me - do I try to cut the fat first or bulk and then cut?

Thanks for reading this far if you have, any help is very much appreciated and photos can be uploaded if required.

Many thanks

Maddie

[Serpentarius]

Post a pic but answer this, if you were to gain no muscle or change in your body toward gaining muscle, would you be happy with gaining PURE fat from where you are at?

How long have you been SERIOUSLY training in the gym with heavy weights?

[MBoux2000]

Post a pic but answer this, if you were to gain no muscle or change in your body toward gaining muscle, would you be happy with gaining PURE fat from where you are at?

How long have you been SERIOUSLY training in the gym with heavy weights?

What is with you and telling everyone they’re gonna gain “ Pure fat “ while trying to build muscle. Of course some fat will be gained but as long as you’re training and progressively overloading you’ll build muscle

[Serpentarius]

What is with you and telling everyone they’re gonna gain “ Pure fat “ while trying to build muscle. Of course some fat will be gained but as long as you’re training and progressively overloading you’ll build muscle

You are missing one critical piece, and left out one another.

And no, there is no overload when you are a weak noob, think about it.

[lustforlife2]

Before we begin, I would recommend you take a Vipassana course. They are pretty hardcore in their own right, sitting 10 hours a day for 10 days solid. It's a meditation technique to contribute to the deconstruction of the ego - which alluded to my asking for help in getting over my bodily anxieties. Perhaps you could use it as a method to learn compassion in order to use your prior knowledge to help others without judgement when they have enough strength to seek help from more learned people. You started from somewhere - benefit others, do not put them down.

I didn't have the money to join the gym last year but I had a full gym kit in our basement so I was lifting 4 times a week and then doing aerial twice a week (2hr sessions of calinsthetics - handstands, overhead lifts, acrobalance).

The heaviest weight I got to was 35kgs benchpress, 30kgs deadlift and 20kgs squat (please remember that my spine was badly damaged and so I lifted light but with more reps to lean out for aerial). This was built up from Jaunary to July when I left for summer having completed my first degree.

Will attach photos later. Look up that course man you would really like it.

[Serpentarius]

Before we begin, I would recommend you take a Vipassana course. They are pretty hardcore in their own right, sitting 10 hours a day for 10 days solid. It's a meditation technique to contribute to the deconstruction of the ego - which alluded to my asking for help in getting over my bodily anxieties. Perhaps you could use it as a method to learn compassion in order to use your prior knowledge to help others without judgement when they have enough strength to seek help from more learned people. You started from somewhere - benefit others, do not put them down.

I didn't have the money to join the gym last year but I had a full gym kit in our basement so I was lifting 4 times a week and then doing aerial twice a week (2hr sessions of calinsthetics - handstands, overhead lifts, acrobalance).

The heaviest weight I got to was 35kgs benchpress, 30kgs deadlift and 20kgs squat (please remember that my spine was badly damaged and so I lifted light but with more reps to lean out for aerial). This was built up from Jaunary to July when I left for summer having completed my first degree.

Will attach photos later. Look up that course man you would really like it.

I have something better, that is the Holy Ghost, Jesus, our one true Lord.
Humility is where it is at, and i am most humble.

With that said, he asks why i mention that newbies will only gain fat, there is a reason, they lack the overload principle and going from extremely weak to slightly less weaker wont build muscle, it only truly happens when they get past the point where linear progression comes to a screeching halt. It was a reply to him, not you. Thus we arrive at the narrative objective, that someone overfat, needs to be in a deficit and only a deficit. You made mention of wanting a flat stomach, a deficit is the only option in mind, since if you are still weak, you will not be building any muscle for awhile, and anything you gain will be fat BECAUSE you need consistent overload. Bodyweight stuff is fine for exercise, but it will never build enough muscle to fix a body composition issue that results in lack of muscle and being overfat.

One illustration for this example, is a casual gym goer, that if they built muscle from the consistent lifting of the same weights over the many years, they would have see a difference, but it falls short of anything because they need to get stronger, muscle growth will follow as genes dictate, under a calorie surplus, under macro necessity fulfillment. They never get out of the noob phase because it is difficult, they can do the nutrition part, which is why they eventually, slowly, systematically, gain fat over the years, but never build muscle. The fear of hard work being a byproduct of this generation is thus present.


If you are PERMANENTLY injured and can never achieve lifting heavy things to the point of being "strong", you are at the mercy of doing whatever you can to get by. Most of us have some physical impairment, or injury.

You didnt mention you had anxiety, just loose skin, i have it, it exists, you have to learn to get over it because it will always be there if you neglect surgery (if you have loose skin). I have crooked teeth, they will always be there, so why let it bother you? Most people are too busy to worry about someone elses body to care, and if they look, they just see it, they dont really care. At the extreme, there are people who lost 200+ lbs, who have had their body completely wrecked by the skin, suddenly our problems are not so problematic.

[MBoux2000]

You are missing one critical piece, and left out one another.

And no, there is no overload when you are a weak noob, think about it.

So, I’m pushing hard to progress on my lifts every week, they are in my signature. Would you be saying I’m gaining pure fat too?

I used to be one of those casual gym goers who just gained fat because I didn’t lift properly, but I fixed that back in the summer and have been progressing rapidly ever since.

[Serpentarius]

So, I’m pushing hard to progress on my lifts every week, they are in my signature. Would you be saying I’m gaining pure fat too?

I used to be one of those casual gym goers who just gained fat because I didn’t lift properly, but I fixed that back in the summer and have been progressing rapidly ever since.

You dont need a surplus at all to gain muscle or get the numbers you have. Physiologically, do you know what is happening when a noob lifts, to the muscle? I speak on the scientific level.

[lustforlife2]

I would just like to comment, that calling people noobs makes the assumption that you are more knowledgable about lifting, which appears to be the case, fair enough. But if humility is where you're at and you're a firm believer in Jesus Christ, then calling other people noobs is not having humilty, it's escalating yourself to be above others. If you truly love and believe in Jesus Christ, you would adopt his qualities, that is true faith. If you are a firm believer in Jesus Christ, and you don't have any compassion whatsoever for anyone around you, then your faith is extremely flawed. However, you have come back with some points that I can grow from, so I will thank you for that.

I was born with s****osis that progressed pretty severly by getting kicked in the back while I was asleep a few years ago, but through a lot of therapies, yoga and physio, it has started to decompress and straighten (aerial really helps with this, I would like to build up to 2 minute foot hangs). The next step would be being conscious of the damage whilst I train, but should I begin to build and lift heavy to bulk or should I start light and lean and then bulk? A deficit in calories for sure, but carbs, fats, proteins?

Finally, thanks, I'm glad to know that loose skin happens, but as you are not a woman I'm not sure that you exactly experience the same problems somehow lol. I shall repost in the women's forum for this part.

[spradish]

I would just like to comment, that calling people noobs makes the assumption that you are more knowledgable about lifting, which appears to be the case, fair enough. But if humility is where you're at and you're a firm believer in Jesus Christ, then calling other people noobs is not having humilty, it's escalating yourself to be above others. If you truly love and believe in Jesus Christ, you would adopt his qualities, that is true faith. If you are a firm believer in Jesus Christ, and you don't have any compassion whatsoever for anyone around you, then your faith is extremely flawed. However, you have come back with some points that I can grow from, so I will thank you for that.

I was born with s****osis that progressed pretty severly by getting kicked in the back while I was asleep a few years ago, but through a lot of therapies, yoga and physio, it has started to decompress and straighten (aerial really helps with this, I would like to build up to 2 minute foot hangs). The next step would be being conscious of the damage whilst I train, but should I begin to build and lift heavy to bulk or should I start light and lean and then bulk? A deficit in calories for sure, but carbs, fats, proteins?

Finally, thanks, I'm glad to know that loose skin happens, but as you are not a woman I'm not sure that you exactly experience the same problems somehow lol. I shall repost in the women's forum for this part.

"Noob" means that you are new to lifting. It's not a pejorative. Noob, newb, newbie gains. Common parlance in the lifting world.

As for loose skin, it is nearly unavoidable when you lose 100 pounds unless you opt for surgery. Starting to lift weights while following a serious solid progressive resistance program can help you build a better body. However, it will not completely "fill out" loose skin. I always suggest lifting when people want to improve their bodies but it won't make loose skin disappear..

[Serpentarius]

"Noob" means that you are new to lifting. It's not a pejorative. Noob, newb, newbie gains. Common parlance in the lifting world.

This, thus the term "noob gains", it has been a coined term on the forums for well over a decade.

[MBoux2000]

You dont need a surplus at all to gain muscle or get the numbers you have. Physiologically, do you know what is happening when a noob lifts, to the muscle? I speak on the scientific level.

Than explain why when in a deficit I didn’t advance my lifts in three months and ever since I brought them into a surplus I’ve been gaining strength like crazy. I’m loading up heavier and heavier weight every single workout. That’s progressive overload. And it’s not like it’s super easy like it would be for a brand new newbie. It was for the first few months but I’m at 7 months now and I have to push for those strength gains. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be gaining just fat considering I’m pushing heavier and heavier every week.

Yes there are neurological gains but those would be wearing out by now and I would be building muscle too.

Also, I’m pretty sure I don’t look fat either, comparing my progress pictures it looks like I definitely gained noticeable muscle since I started my bulk in late November.

[Serpentarius]

Than explain why when in a deficit I didn’t advance my lifts in three months and ever since I brought them into a surplus I’ve been gaining strength like crazy. I’m loading up heavier and heavier weight every single workout. That’s progressive overload. And it’s not like it’s super easy like it would be for a brand new newbie. It was for the first few months but I’m at 7 months now and I have to push for those strength gains. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be gaining just fat considering I’m pushing heavier and heavier every week.

Yes there are neurological gains but those would be wearing out by now and I would be building muscle too.

Also, I’m pretty sure I don’t look fat either, comparing my progress pictures it looks like I definitely gained noticeable muscle since I started my bulk in late November.

Inadequate programming, overreaching, among many other possibilities. Dont be so hung up on the gaining fat, i know you are trying to prove me wrong, i knew of your motive and ways before it began, and it is a fruitless endeavor. But enough derailing of the thread at hand as it is not about oneself.

[MBoux2000]

Inadequate programming, overreaching, among many other possibilities. Dont be so hung up on the gaining fat, i know you are trying to prove me wrong, i knew of your motive and ways before it began, and it is a fruitless endeavor. But enough derailing of the thread at hand as it is not about oneself.

You’re obviously a very misguided person. Who said I’m trying to prove you wrong at anything? Lol. My programming did not change and as soon as I went into a surplus my lifts starting increasing rapidly. How about you butt out and stop calling people noobs for literally no reason. I think it’s pretty clear I’ve gained muscle, and of course it is normal for some fat to be gained.

I think it’s about high time you stop giving people bad advice and for God’s sake just stop telling people they’re going to gain tons of fat.