Type 2 Diabetic -Pre and post workout

[alexmmathew]

Any Type 2 Diabetics who have dialed in their pre and post work out routines?
I'm type 2 and very carb intolerant. It instantly turns to fat. I'm currently ending my first cut ever (dropped from 244 to 204 and 30%BF to 15%BF) and am lifting 4 days a week. Going to be stabilizing my diet for thenext few weeks at about 2100 calories on a P:45% F:35% and C:20% split. All of my carbs are clean and low glycemic index except for my post workout.
My pre consists of a popular creatine / stimulant drink and half a sweet potato, my post is protein shake, banana, spinach, bcaa shake.
Would love to hear what other Type 2s are doing.
Thanks

[Mrpb]

You don't need any carbs post workout.

BCAAs are utterly useless. Consume whole protein instead.

As a T2D you may want to look into ketogenic dieting. It seems to work well for T2D.

[rhadam]

Any Type 2 Diabetics who have dialed in their pre and post work out routines?
I'm type 2 and very carb intolerant. It instantly turns to fat. I'm currently ending my first cut ever (dropped from 244 to 204 and 30%BF to 15%BF) and am lifting 4 days a week. Going to be stabilizing my diet for thenext few weeks at about 2100 calories on a P:45% F:35% and C:20% split. All of my carbs are clean and low glycemic index except for my post workout.
My pre consists of a popular creatine / stimulant drink and half a sweet potato, my post is protein shake, banana, spinach, bcaa shake.
Would love to hear what other Type 2s are doing.
Thanks

Everything you think you know is wrong.

[Heisman2]

Are you really 22? Were you on insulin? If not you may actually not have type 2 diabetes mellitus anymore after losing the fat.

[grayguo]

Any Type 2 Diabetics who have dialed in their pre and post work out routines?
I'm type 2 and very carb intolerant. It instantly turns to fat. I'm currently ending my first cut ever (dropped from 244 to 204 and 30%BF to 15%BF) and am lifting 4 days a week. Going to be stabilizing my diet for thenext few weeks at about 2100 calories on a P:45% F:35% and C:20% split. All of my carbs are clean and low glycemic index except for my post workout.
My pre consists of a popular creatine / stimulant drink and half a sweet potato, my post is protein shake, banana, spinach, bcaa shake.
Would love to hear what other Type 2s are doing.
Thanks

Hey alexmmathew, I don’t have type 2 diabetes but I found an article that may help you figure out what post and pre workout meals can work for you.

Google “carbohydrate counting for people with type 2 diabetes” and look for the article by American Diabetes Association.

It’s a dense read, but basically it outlines how you can run experiments to see your blood glucose levels at different points of the day. This will probably help you adjust your meals so you reach something more optimal for your body.

[alexmmathew]

Everything you think you know is wrong.

Thanks...that's helpful!

[alexmmathew]

Are you really 22? Were you on insulin? If not you may actually not have type 2 diabetes mellitus anymore after losing the fat.

I'm 50... Not sure where the 22 came from. My A1c is 5.7 so technically I am barely pre- diabetic but that based on working out and a strictly low/ healthy carb intake. I've found that high glycemic carbs do spoke my blood sugar and turn right to fat if taken during the days I've tried backloading carbs and think it works ok. But interested in the experiences of others.

[alexmmathew]

Hey alexmmathew, I don’t have type 2 diabetes but I found an article that may help you figure out what post and pre workout meals can work for you.

Google “carbohydrate counting for people with type 2 diabetes” and look for the article by American Diabetes Association.

It’s a dense read, but basically it outlines how you can run experiments to see your blood glucose levels at different points of the day. This will probably help you adjust your meals so you reach something more optimal for your body.

I appreciate that but I'm a little sour on the ADA right now. I essentially cured myself of the symptoms of diabetes with diet and exercise. The ADA and medical community at large has resigned/conspired to perpetuate the myth that Type 2 is a progressive Disease which is only to be managed with meds whih is complete bs in my opinion. For years I was given a 30 lecture on diet and exercise and a 45 min discussion about medication . My doses of insulin had to increase almost monthly until I said "f it, enough is enough I'm trying something differant". Yes, they give lip service to excersises and diet but at the end of he day they push the meds hard which is the easy way out when you are fat and lazy like I was.

[Heisman2]

Your profile says your age is 22, that's where I got that from.

The reason the medical community doesn't push diet/and exercise very hard is because when we (I'm a doc) talk about it most patients don't make changes and there is no significant reimbursement for talking about it. Huge props to you for making a change but the vast majority of patients don't. Not saying we shouldn't focus on this more but that's the reality.

Hopefully with this recent study (in patients with type 2 diabetes who were not on insulin) this will change and we will focus on diet/exercise more: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...102-1/fulltext

[alexmmathew]

Your profile says your age is 22, that's where I got that from.

The reason the medical community doesn't push diet/and exercise very hard is because when we (I'm a doc) talk about it most patients don't make changes and there is no significant reimbursement for talking about it. Huge props to you for making a change but the vast majority of patients don't. Not saying we shouldn't focus on this more but that's the reality.

Hopefully with this recent study (in patients with type 2 diabetes who were not on insulin) this will change and we will focus on diet/exercise more: /PIIS0140-6736(17)33102-1/fulltext[/url]

You hit the nail on the head with that one. I was fortunate enough to have my company pay for a program that bougt a nutritionist to my office every week for weigh ins, education, motivation etc. I think the single biggest unaddressed issue is motivation though. The concept of early death or digits dropping off are just to nebulous to motivate most people in to sustained had action. For me it was was a competition between me and one of the guys here and the idea of eating every 3 hours! Now, when results came fast and furious it turned into a competition between fat lazy Alex and ripped healthy Alex (who is currently winning! haha). Point being that I think an insurance program that said "sorry, no meds for you until you go through this program" would be a game changer in my mind. Overly simplified but i think you get my point. Anyway, rant over. I still need to find info on what someone who has put thier Type 2 into remission can and can not eat based on the physiological changes (insulin projuction / sensitivity) and based on stresses put on ones system by sustained diet and hard workouts.

[Jesse_l_g]

I appreciate that but I'm a little sour on the ADA right now. I essentially cured myself of the symptoms of diabetes with diet and exercise. The ADA and medical community at large has resigned/conspired to perpetuate the myth that Type 2 is a progressive Disease which is only to be managed with meds whih is complete bs in my opinion. For years I was given a 30 lecture on diet and exercise and a 45 min discussion about medication . My doses of insulin had to increase almost monthly until I said "f it, enough is enough I'm trying something differant". Yes, they give lip service to excersises and diet but at the end of he day they push the meds hard which is the easy way out when you are fat and lazy like I was.

Thank you for saying that.

The reason the medical community doesn't push diet/and exercise very hard is because when we (I'm a doc) talk about it most patients don't make changes and there is no significant reimbursement for talking about it. Huge props to you for making a change but the vast majority of patients don't. Not saying we shouldn't focus on this more but that's the reality.

I certainly don't blame doctors for prescribing drugs to patients who aren't willing to change their lifestyle. At the same time i feel like MD's go to school to learn to prescribe drugs. That's what the whole medical system we have is designed for. To treat people with pharmaceuticals. I don't think it's controversial to say natural alternatives are very often more effective without the side effects. I would say almost always. How many people with T2D for example could manage it just as well with very simple alternatives like a 5-10min walk after meals and supplements like bitter melon extract and cinnamon. There is a spectrum. Not everyone needs to drastically change their lifestyle to have significant improvements so they don't need the drugs. Of course there are doctors treating people like this with natural alternatives but they didn't learn it in medical school. Again i don't blame them for giving someone an RX who is 100lbs overweight, eats nothing but processed food and refuses to exercise. I just think its tragic that people like OP go to the doctor for help and are pushed drugs.

OP- Like Mrpb said a keto diet is something worth trying if you can stick to it. Have you ever experimented with or looked into fasting? That can be extremely powerful at improving insulin sensitivity.

I would definitely start dumping ceylon cinnamon in your shakes or take it in capsules before meals. A short walk right after you eat can also help a lot.

[alexmmathew]

Thank you for saying that.


I certainly don't blame doctors for prescribing drugs to patients who aren't willing to change their lifestyle. At the same time i feel like MD's go to school to learn to prescribe drugs. That's what the whole medical system we have is designed for. To treat people with pharmaceuticals. I don't think it's controversial to say natural alternatives are very often more effective without the side effects. I would say almost always. How many people with T2D for example could manage it just as well with very simple alternatives like a 5-10min walk after meals and supplements like bitter melon extract and cinnamon. There is a spectrum. Not everyone needs to drastically change their lifestyle to have significant improvements so they don't need the drugs. Of course there are doctors treating people like this with natural alternatives but they didn't learn it in medical school. Again i don't blame them for giving someone an RX who is 100lbs overweight, eats nothing but processed food and refuses to exercise. I just think its tragic that people like OP go to the doctor for help and are pushed drugs.

OP- Like Mrpb said a keto diet is something worth trying if you can stick to it. Have you ever experimented with or looked into fasting? That can be extremely powerful at improving insulin sensitivity.

I would definitely start dumping ceylon cinnamon in your shakes or take it in capsules before meals. A short walk right after you eat can also help a lot.

For the most part, Keto was how I dumped 40lbs of fat in 4-5 months, trying to normalize my diet and have had relative success with rolling back in carbs via veggies. Will definitely roll in the Cinnamon on top of my berberine and Chromium. As far as fasting...yeah, well that seems to be somewhat daunting! haha. I do try not to eat after 8pm and not before 8am and do not eat carbs until around 11am.
Surprisingly little amount of info out there on what I can expect to see for improvement in insulin production and sensitivity based on the weight loss and exercises. At the end of the day I'm trying to avoid going back to self testing 10 times a day to gage what any given change in activity and food intake does to my bs levels. Especially since I found out that bs testing devices are only required to be accurate within 20% high or low, which makes them somewhat useless when trying to dial this stuff in. I guess as long as my A1c checks out well from quarter to quarter im doing something right.

[Mrpb]

Have you ever experimented with or looked into fasting? That can be extremely powerful at improving insulin sensitivity.

A lot of hype going around but several studies have failed to back up the claim.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776143
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833943

I wouldn't rely on fasting to improve IR.

[Jesse_l_g]

A lot of hype going around but several studies have failed to back up the claim.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776143
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833943

I wouldn't rely on fasting to improve IR.

I'm not suggesting to rely on it but if i had T2D it is something i would experiment with as part of an overall strategy. I don't see why someone should wait for the research. Considering its free with minimal risk. (Although be careful and speak with your doctor if in poor health) It seems promising enough even if a lot of the evidence is anecdotal. I think its fair to point out these studies are extremely expensive and pharmaceutical companies aren't going to fund research on it. I actually think its telling how intimidating fasting for even 24 hours is for so many people. Considering how long the human body is able to go without food.

TBH i don't feel the studies you posted are very relevant. The first was looking at IF in healthy lean men. The second was also on nonobese subjects, presumably who were not diabetic? Also fasting 36hours every other day for 3 weeks seems like kind of a weird study. I wounder what their diet looked like in the 12hr eating window every other day. I'm thinking a study something like a 24hr fast once a week and 72hr once a month for a year on diabetics would be interesting.

I am coming from the perspective of someone who if faced with a illness like T2D would pull all stops. As you know it takes a lot of research to nail things down. There are so many variables and its incredibly expensive to do.

[Mrpb]

I'm not suggesting to rely on it but if i had T2D it is something i would experiment with as part of an overall strategy. I don't see why someone should wait for the research. Considering its free with minimal risk.

Well you wrote that IF can be extremely powerful at improving insulin sensitivity. My response is that several studies have failed to back up that claim.

Minimal risk? Maybe not.

Fasting can also increase risk of dangerously high blood sugar. “With no food,” writes Gebel Berg, “the liver releases stored glucose for energy.” Because people may stop their medications to avoid lows, blood sugar can soar. In one study, “researchers found a fivefold increase in severe hyperglycemia in people with Type 2 who fasted during Ramadan and a threefold increase in people with Type 1.” Fasting is a type of stress, and stress hormones such as cortisol raise blood sugar.

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.c...help-diabetes/

Given that fasting also decreases 24h MPS and we're on a bodybuilding forum, I'd suggest using other strategies.

[Jesse_l_g]

Well you wrote that IF can be extremely powerful at improving insulin sensitivity. My response is that several studies have failed to back up that claim.

To be fair i said fasting(not IF) can be extremely powerful. I think this is true and there are real doctors who use fasting in their practices. I do understand it is kind of fringe. It was only a small part of my post. For people like OP who have resolved most of their symptoms already with diet and exercise it might be a good next step. I think its worth considering and experimenting with. That's all. I am happy to back peddle a little here and say "might be" instead of "can be."

Minimal risk? Maybe not.
https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.c...help-diabetes/

The second paragraph from that same article. "Since bodies store extra fuel in the form of glycogen (a type of carbohydrate) and fat, most people can safely take breaks from eating. Some evidence shows these breaks can help bodies heal."

I agree people in poor health and on prescription drugs should talk to their doctor first. I hope we aren't arguing over the definition of minimal here?

Given that fasting also decreases 24h MPS and we're on a bodybuilding forum, I'd suggest using other strategies.

Priorities i guess. Somehow i doubt OP is going to be getting on stage any time soon. I would of thought you would be one of the last guys here to argue an occasional fast would matter much in the grand scheme of things.

[Heisman2]

Thank you for saying that.


I certainly don't blame doctors for prescribing drugs to patients who aren't willing to change their lifestyle. At the same time i feel like MD's go to school to learn to prescribe drugs. That's what the whole medical system we have is designed for. To treat people with pharmaceuticals. I don't think it's controversial to say natural alternatives are very often more effective without the side effects. I would say almost always. How many people with T2D for example could manage it just as well with very simple alternatives like a 5-10min walk after meals and supplements like bitter melon extract and cinnamon. There is a spectrum. Not everyone needs to drastically change their lifestyle to have significant improvements so they don't need the drugs. Of course there are doctors treating people like this with natural alternatives but they didn't learn it in medical school. Again i don't blame them for giving someone an RX who is 100lbs overweight, eats nothing but processed food and refuses to exercise. I just think its tragic that people like OP go to the doctor for help and are pushed drugs.

I really doubt someone with type 2 diabetes can manage it with just bitter melon extract, cinnamon, and a 5-10 minute walk. Likely the best thing most people who are obese with T2DM can do is lose excess fat; if natural substances aid them in doing so along with dieting/exercise that could be quite helpful. Also most doctors will use medicine in addition to diet/exercise goals, not as a substitute.

Also, if I personally was treating someone with T2DM I would want to help them with diet/exercise and also give them medication. I'd rather hit this as hard as possible from the start and then as they see results with the diet/exercise I'd start taking off the medication. But really it depends what the A1c is at the start. If someone is obese and has an A1c of 7.6 and is very motivated to make diet/exercise changes and doesn't want to use meds I would be completely on board with them. If that same person has an A1c of 10.0 then they will almost certainly need to use medication and I'd want to start medication to help minimize the long term damage from hyperglycemia.



Anyways, doctors are trained to give advice for lifestyle changes and to use medications for lots of things, but the fact is that most people do not want to (or are unable to) make the necessary lifestyle changes for whatever condition they have and then medications come into play. Obviously an oversimplification but please realize the motivated people who are able to find this website, sign up, and start posting are a very small minority of the population.

[Mrpb]

To be fair i said fasting(not IF) can be extremely powerful.

Yes and I responded with the fact that several studies have failed to backed that up.

If there's one thing continuously being hyped it's intermittent fasting. But guess what all the studies that have shown benefits have done so because they restricted calories. It's more and more looking like fasting in itself does nothing.