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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by SyedZeeshan View Post
    I hope you are not abusing my country my friend nor it's citizens.
    Don't be so thin skinned. He's Australian. They only produce cool, fun-hearted people from that country. All Austrialians are nice.

    Except for Nicole Kidman
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by SyedZeeshan View Post
    I hope you are not abusing my country my friend nor it's citizens.
    I am abusing your description of your country. If it is accurate, then your country is half-arsed, totally disorganised and full of fraudulent activity. By being organised and honest you would have a significant business advantage.

    But of course there's another alternative: it's not that your country is like that, but your understanding of how to run a business is deficient. In which case it is even more important for you to be organised and honest.

    You do not create a community in a gym by having it cheap. Nor should you engage in false advertising - whatever the law, in a community people talk to each-other and realise some of them have been ripped off, and then there goes your community. So even if you somehow created the community you wanted you'd destroy it with your approach.

    There are better ways.
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  3. #33
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    The first clue that your business idea sucks is this burning desire to ask what others think about it.

    When you have a hot girlfriend, you don't go around asking all your friends, 'Hey, do you think she's pretty?'
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  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    I am abusing your description of your country. If it is accurate, then your country is half-arsed, totally disorganised and full of fraudulent activity. By being organised and honest you would have a significant business advantage.

    But of course there's another alternative: it's not that your country is like that, but your understanding of how to run a business is deficient. In which case it is even more important for you to be organised and honest.

    You do not create a community in a gym by having it cheap. Nor should you engage in false advertising - whatever the law, in a community people talk to each-other and realise some of them have been ripped off, and then there goes your community. So even if you somehow created the community you wanted you'd destroy it with your approach.

    There are better ways.
    Kyle may be im not as intelligent as you are when it comes to business but I manage to successfully run a full-fledged event management firm which I started during my undergraduation and I make good money from it.

    Now let's talk about India, in my country, there are plenty of both honest and dishonest people who use different methods to make money without breaking the laws. We can see such people every where.

    According to you the discount strategy I spoke about is a fraud and against the laws in Australia. So, can you please tell me how does the discount scheme work at your place? Now coming to the gyms and their marketing strategies, every gym does this all around the world to sell their packages. Buy for 6 months and get 60% or 50% discount for new year blah blah.

    So with that the gyms are going against the laws, so with that all the leading brands in australia for eg. Levi's, Zara etc are breaking the laws.


    The first clue that your business idea sucks is this burning desire to ask what others think about it.

    When you have a hot girlfriend, you don't go around asking all your friends, 'Hey, do you think she's pretty?'
    No, I wasn't asking anyone's opinion about my ideas or plans over here. All I wanted was suggestions from the gym owners in here who could guide me a little from their trails and errors, or scams they might have come across while making deals etc. I did so because, we all have tons to learn from the wise/experienced men in here.
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  5. #35
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    "With this I just had an idea to start a gym for those who are dedicated and serious towards their goals. Planning to target people from the age 18 to 40. The location I've in my mind is surrounded my these software engineer's recidence, colleges, business orgs etc. So I do think this could be a prime location. However what I'm more concerned about is the equipment. What do you think should I go for these local equipments that are made in india or should I go for the big brands like hammer strength etc."

    No need to tell us your idea if all you wondered about was equipment types.

    "So, I met this girl. She has green eyes, big boobs, long dark hair and a great smile. I was wondering, do you guys think I should take her to that new bar on 7th and Broadway?"

    Why not just ask about the new bar on 7th and Broadway?
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Ronin4help View Post
    "With this I just had an idea to start a gym for those who are dedicated and serious towards their goals. Planning to target people from the age 18 to 40. The location I've in my mind is surrounded my these software engineer's recidence, colleges, business orgs etc. So I do think this could be a prime location. However what I'm more concerned about is the equipment. What do you think should I go for these local equipments that are made in india or should I go for the big brands like hammer strength etc."

    No need to tell us your idea if all you wondered about was equipment types.

    "So, I met this girl. She has green eyes, big boobs, long dark hair and a great smile. I was wondering, do you guys think I should take her to that new bar on 7th and Broadway?"

    Why not just ask about the new bar on 7th and Broadway?

    Haha you are the guru ronin you know what's right and wrong. Lets not argue over this anymore :P
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by Ronin4help View Post
    "With this I just had an idea to start a gym for those who are dedicated and serious towards their goals. Planning to target people from the age 18 to 40. The location I've in my mind is surrounded my these software engineer's recidence, colleges, business orgs etc. So I do think this could be a prime location. However what I'm more concerned about is the equipment. What do you think should I go for these local equipments that are made in india or should I go for the big brands like hammer strength etc."

    No need to tell us your idea if all you wondered about was equipment types.

    "So, I met this girl. She has green eyes, big boobs, long dark hair and a great smile. I was wondering, do you guys think I should take her to that new bar on 7th and Broadway?"

    Why not just ask about the new bar on 7th and Broadway?

    Haha you are the guru ronin you know what's right and wrong. Lets not argue over this anymore :P
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  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by SyedZeeshan View Post
    Haha you are the guru ronin you know what's right and wrong. Lets not argue over this anymore :P
    We're good. No worries. BTW- Anything you can share with us that we may not know about fitness trends or concepts over there? I would love to learn something about what's happening in your country (from someone who actually lives there).
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by SyedZeeshan View Post
    KAccording to you the discount strategy I spoke about is a fraud and against the laws in Australia. So, can you please tell me how does the discount scheme work at your place? Now coming to the gyms and their marketing strategies, every gym does this all around the world to sell their packages. Buy for 6 months and get 60% or 50% discount for new year blah blah.
    They present them differently, but basically there are only two strategies:

    1. "No joining fee." Most chain gyms have a joining fee of $100-$150, in January they can this. The joining fee is meant to pay for the wages of the person signing you up (30-60' with you) plus that of the trainer introducing you to the gym (1-3hr), but overall only about 1/3 of new members do those introductory sessions anyway.

    This one is a bit dumb, in that January will be busy with new members whatever you do, so it's like a restaurant having a deal on a Friday night; better to have the deal on a Monday night in a restaurant, or in July in a gym in Australia, when it's winter and quieter. But on the other hand all the gyms offer deals so if you don't then people just go elsewhere. Gyms as a whole screw themselves over with this since potential members know there'll be deals in January, so in November and December they wait to join up; January is just getting back the members you lost to Christmas holidays and presents in Nov/Dec, and the people who would have signed up but waited for deals.

    These ones tend not to last in the gym anyway, you get their direct debit for 2-4 months then they quit.

    It'll be different in India since you don't have Christmas, nor winter in July. But I'm sure there'll be some comparable seasonal and holiday variations in the business.

    2. "Cheaper upfront." Most gyms have you pay by direct debit fortnightly, but pay for 6 or 12 months ahead and get 10 or 20% off, that sort of thing. Gyms like this because direct debit people can stop at any time. If the person comes 8+ times in a month they're very likely to still be members 12 months from now; even dropping to 7 gives a 25% chance they'll cancel next month. But if they've paid in advance, whether they come or not you've still got their money.

    These people last longer than the January crowd, obviously on the books but slightly better in actual attendance, too. "Skin in the game" as people say - if you've put out $1,000 towards something in one go, you tend to take it more seriously than if you put out $1,000 in the form of 50 lots of $20 payments. But those who have the money to knock out $1,000 in one go won't miss it once 6 months have gone by. So overall retention for them is only slightly better.

    There are things like concession memberships, people on government pensions paying less, and variations of the above, like, "join up with a friend, pay no joining fee" but that's about it.

    That's what big gyms do. Small gyms, and training gyms, they're a bit different. I don't need to offer deals because I have a niche. Deals and discounts are for when your product or service is generic and easily replicable. "2,400 members, 12 treadmills, 4 bikes, 4 rowers, 4 ellipticals, 12-machine circuit set, one power rack, one bench press, dumbbells from 10 to 40kg in 2.5k increments, BodyPump class at 6pm" - I can go to 6 gyms like that in a 5km radius of my house. They can't compete on quality so they have to compete on price. Thus deals.

    But a smaller gym can have community, and a training gym can have results. So those places don't need to discount. People don't go there because it's the cheapest, they go there because they want to go to that particular place with those particular people. As Ronin says, this doesn't last forever, people do get tired of going to the same place with the same people after some years at most. So in a place like that you need one or both of: drawing from beyond your immediate neighbourhood, and/or your neighbourhood has a high turnover, lots of people coming and going.

    Running a small training gym, I have people come from 30km away, even 100km. And I'm in a suburb with a big university, so it's pretty high turnover as students move into the area to go to uni, then move out after their degree. The students themselves make for few and poor gym customers - uni students are poor and busy with stuff, and as young people tend not to commit to anything - but it means there's a good turnover of other demographic groups as the students create a demand for rental housing which they don't stay in, but others do.
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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    They present them differently, but basically there are only two strategies:

    1. "No joining fee." Most chain gyms have a joining fee of $100-$150, in January they can this. The joining fee is meant to pay for the wages of the person signing you up (30-60' with you) plus that of the trainer introducing you to the gym (1-3hr), but overall only about 1/3 of new members do those introductory sessions anyway.

    This one is a bit dumb, in that January will be busy with new members whatever you do, so it's like a restaurant having a deal on a Friday night; better to have the deal on a Monday night in a restaurant, or in July in a gym in Australia, when it's winter and quieter. But on the other hand all the gyms offer deals so if you don't then people just go elsewhere. Gyms as a whole screw themselves over with this since potential members know there'll be deals in January, so in November and December they wait to join up; January is just getting back the members you lost to Christmas holidays and presents in Nov/Dec, and the people who would have signed up but waited for deals.

    These ones tend not to last in the gym anyway, you get their direct debit for 2-4 months then they quit.

    It'll be different in India since you don't have Christmas, nor winter in July. But I'm sure there'll be some comparable seasonal and holiday variations in the business.

    2. "Cheaper upfront." Most gyms have you pay by direct debit fortnightly, but pay for 6 or 12 months ahead and get 10 or 20% off, that sort of thing. Gyms like this because direct debit people can stop at any time. If the person comes 8+ times in a month they're very likely to still be members 12 months from now; even dropping to 7 gives a 25% chance they'll cancel next month. But if they've paid in advance, whether they come or not you've still got their money.

    These people last longer than the January crowd, obviously on the books but slightly better in actual attendance, too. "Skin in the game" as people say - if you've put out $1,000 towards something in one go, you tend to take it more seriously than if you put out $1,000 in the form of 50 lots of $20 payments. But those who have the money to knock out $1,000 in one go won't miss it once 6 months have gone by. So overall retention for them is only slightly better.

    There are things like concession memberships, people on government pensions paying less, and variations of the above, like, "join up with a friend, pay no joining fee" but that's about it.

    That's what big gyms do. Small gyms, and training gyms, they're a bit different. I don't need to offer deals because I have a niche. Deals and discounts are for when your product or service is generic and easily replicable. "2,400 members, 12 treadmills, 4 bikes, 4 rowers, 4 ellipticals, 12-machine circuit set, one power rack, one bench press, dumbbells from 10 to 40kg in 2.5k increments, BodyPump class at 6pm" - I can go to 6 gyms like that in a 5km radius of my house. They can't compete on quality so they have to compete on price. Thus deals.

    But a smaller gym can have community, and a training gym can have results. So those places don't need to discount. People don't go there because it's the cheapest, they go there because they want to go to that particular place with those particular people. As Ronin says, this doesn't last forever, people do get tired of going to the same place with the same people after some years at most. So in a place like that you need one or both of: drawing from beyond your immediate neighbourhood, and/or your neighbourhood has a high turnover, lots of people coming and going.

    Running a small training gym, I have people come from 30km away, even 100km. And I'm in a suburb with a big university, so it's pretty high turnover as students move into the area to go to uni, then move out after their degree. The students themselves make for few and poor gym customers - uni students are poor and busy with stuff, and as young people tend not to commit to anything - but it means there's a good turnover of other demographic groups as the students create a demand for rental housing which they don't stay in, but others do.
    That's a great peice of facts you have put out there. Finding a niche would be a nice thing to over come competition, and if no competition then more demand = more people ready to pay. However the world has become soo competitive these days that people tend to immediately copy other's ideas if it's sucessful.

    We're good. No worries. BTW- Anything you can share with us that we may not know about fitness trends or concepts over there? I would love to learn something about what's happening in your country (from someone who actually lives there).
    I would love to share the trends, If there were any new trends in the fitness industry in India. Earlier in the 80s 90s fitness industry was all about keeping people fit and strong. However, there current trend that I'm seeing in India is the fake supplement market to make easy money out of it.

    Since everyone is getting into the fitness industry now for the sake of six pack abs and the myth that the supplements are "good for you" thing people have started to eat less of the natural stuff and started being dependant on these chemicals. Looking at the high demand for international brand's demands people in the local market have started to replicate products for a very cheap price and then these trainers buy and sell them to their clients mostly students or those short term clients who want quick results but don't last more than a month in the gym.

    Now the market is soo huge not sure the products being at india's online retails are genuine or fake, since their business model again allows these local retailers to advertise their products over their websites.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by SyedZeeshan View Post
    That's a great peice of facts you have put out there. Finding a niche would be a nice thing to over come competition, and if no competition then more demand = more people ready to pay. However the world has become soo competitive these days that people tend to immediately copy other's ideas if it's sucessful.
    Yes. This is why I believe in being competent in your niche and building community. Because competence and community can't be copied, only learned and built.

    We see this with the Crossfit clones. Anyone can buy some racks and bumper plates, and many big gyms have done so - but they don't have competent trainers, and you can't have community in a place with 3,000 members. You can't copy competence and community, you have to learn and build.

    We had a new guy come today, he came in my newbie hour of 12-2, he stayed around until the others drifted in at 2, and kept hanging around and chatting to people until 545 - we closed at 6. I taught him the lifts - in the big gym, every day I taught someone new to squat or deadlift, that's 1,000 people - so I can do it competently. Competence.

    Now why did the guy hang around for almost four hours after finishing his training? Community. The crowd was chatting to each-other and the new guy, giving each-other sht and encouragement both - Sri Lankan man, Anglo woman, 22 to 69yo, straight and gay, religious and secular, all sharing the same hobby. About half of them have been there 2 years or more. Some of them, not content with seeing each-other three times a week in the gym, also have Saturday lunch with each-other. One is supporting another through a divorce. After I finish writing this, I'm going to have a shower and go out with my wife for our anniversary dinner, and one of my clients will babysit.

    That's community.

    You can't simply copy teaching 1,000 different people to lift and building a small community of supportive people. You need to work on it for years.

    In Australia, only around 10% of people are members of a gym or a sports team. The main thing people do isn't go to some other gym, it's to sit on their arse. Your competition is not other gyms, your competition is the couch.
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  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    Yes. This is why I believe in being competent in your niche and building community. Because competence and community can't be copied, only learned and built.

    We see this with the Crossfit clones. Anyone can buy some racks and bumper plates, and many big gyms have done so - but they don't have competent trainers, and you can't have community in a place with 3,000 members. You can't copy competence and community, you have to learn and build.

    We had a new guy come today, he came in my newbie hour of 12-2, he stayed around until the others drifted in at 2, and kept hanging around and chatting to people until 545 - we closed at 6. I taught him the lifts - in the big gym, every day I taught someone new to squat or deadlift, that's 1,000 people - so I can do it competently. Competence.

    Now why did the guy hang around for almost four hours after finishing his training? Community. The crowd was chatting to each-other and the new guy, giving each-other sht and encouragement both - Sri Lankan man, Anglo woman, 22 to 69yo, straight and gay, religious and secular, all sharing the same hobby. About half of them have been there 2 years or more. Some of them, not content with seeing each-other three times a week in the gym, also have Saturday lunch with each-other. One is supporting another through a divorce. After I finish writing this, I'm going to have a shower and go out with my wife for our anniversary dinner, and one of my clients will babysit.

    That's community.

    You can't simply copy teaching 1,000 different people to lift and building a small community of supportive people. You need to work on it for years.

    In Australia, only around 10% of people are members of a gym or a sports team. The main thing people do isn't go to some other gym, it's to sit on their arse. Your competition is not other gyms, your competition is the couch.
    Indeed creating a community is a tough thing, it will take years of continued effort and experience to guide people. Like you mentioned earlier looking from business's perspective creating a community may not work as we think about it. I will hang around here learn and if everything goes well then for sure I would consider opening a gym.
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