Cutting time??

[Mandi194]

So I've been bulking (first time) for over the past nine months and am now at the point where I'm hating the flab I'm feeling. I'm hoping for some guidance as to whether or not I should cut and if so how I go about it as my calories are still low. I've worked my way up from 800 calories and am now semi-maintaining my weight at 1400cal daily. Currently weight training 4-5 days a week, HIIT 2x week. My body fat has been assessed frequently with callipers and I'm now at 25% with 43kg lean mass. I have uploaded a few quick pics to my body space for reference.
Maybe someone may also be able to assess if the callipers are correct or not just by the pictures? ;P

[LunaLifts]

Assuming you're an adult, 1400 isn't maintenance. Looking at your stats (assuming your bodyspace is up to date), and guessing an approximate age, your TDEE (maintenance) is closer to just under 2000, so if you're maintaining, the first thing you need to do is get a food scale, and figure out where those errors are.

Were you gaining consistently in those nine months? How much per month? You said you went from 800 calories, a severe deficit, to maintaining in what's still a huge deficit now.

[Mandi194]

Assuming you're an adult, 1400 isn't maintenance. Looking at your stats (assuming your bodyspace is up to date), and guessing an approximate age, your TDEE (maintenance) is closer to just under 2000, so if you're maintaining, the first thing you need to do is get a food scale, and figure out where those errors are.

Were you gaining consistently in those nine months? How much per month? You said you went from 800 calories, a severe deficit, to maintaining in what's still a huge deficit now.

Yes I'm 23 and my body space is up to date. I have the worst metabolism ever due to a thyroid issue back a year ago (currently under control). When I started weight training I was only bulking at 950 calories as I had less than 66lb of lean mass at the time. I've added on calories over the past nine months to where I am at 1400cal. I've been given recommendation to work my way up to eating 2000 calories however I gain incredible amounts of fat first before muscle so id therefore be just adding fat which I desperately don't want to be doing as I'm already at the point where I feel sluggish and jiggly.
I weigh all my foods out, even condiments and milk in coffee etc.

I started my calliper measuring in May this year and since then have gained 27lb (17.5lb lean mass). This was relatively consistent at around 2.5-2.5lb per month.

[LunaLifts]

If that's the case, you should see your doctor, if you thyroid is still so bad you gain weight at under 1000cals, it's not under control. You did say you weigh everything, but do you have cheat days? Weight for all solids, not measuring cups? Eat out at all? Double check the tracking entries on whatever site you use for it (most are user created, and have errors)? I'm not trying to undermine your tracking, but if you do have a medical condition, and you are truly eating what you said, and you're gaining, that sounds like something you need to work with your doctor with.

Keep in mind, no matter how consistent someone is with calipers they're off to a decent degree, most people doing it themselves will be more inaccurate (subconsciously trying to get a better number, pinching the calipers too hard, not being able to do a 7 point test, general human error). To be honest, it's not a big deal to have an accurate bf%, you'd have to get a DEXA scan to be accurate, and the mirror is cheaper. Bulk, cut, repeat until you like where you're at.
With consistency you can get an idea of ups, and downs in body fat, but it's not going to give you an accurate bf% or LBM. 17.5 pounds is a butt load of muscle and if you gained it, you'd know.

Women gain about .5-1lb of muscle a month in a surplus, so it's take at least a couple years in a surplus to put on that kind of LBM, not including that the rate of muscle gain slows own after a time, and 1lb/month would be if you get everything 100% on point (which even the most tedious of us tend to not do). Also, gaining that much more muscle than fat would be impossible, it's about 50/50 (and some is water/glycogen in the muscles to) unless you put on extra fat. Being shorter, you could aim to gain at a rate of 1-1.5lb/month instead next time around, and that'll help give you more time before that fluffy feeling sets in.

Again, I'm not trying to be discouraging, this is about a) making sure your thyroid is truly medicated properly so you can rule that out b) making sure there's no potential error in tracking somewhere (because even with thyroid problems, you'd still lose at 950cals) c) give you a more realistic idea of how much of a pain it is to figure out LBM so you can set realistic expectation, and not be set up for disappointment later. d) help set a better guideline for bulking next time so you can get the most out of it.

That said, I wouldn't advice cutting until the numbers make sense. One that's figured out, you could cut down to about 115 and give bulking another shot at a slower pace. The holidays are coming up anyway, so if you don't want to be cutting then,just maintain, get your tracking, and TDEE figured out properly, and do that starting 2018.

[Mandi194]

If that's the case, you should see your doctor, if you thyroid is still so bad you gain weight at under 1000cals, it's not under control. You did say you weigh everything, but do you have cheat days? Weight for all solids, not measuring cups? Eat out at all? Double check the tracking entries on whatever site you use for it (most are user created, and have errors)? I'm not trying to undermine your tracking, but if you do have a medical condition, and you are truly eating what you said, and you're gaining, that sounds like something you need to work with your doctor with.

Keep in mind, no matter how consistent someone is with calipers they're off to a decent degree, most people doing it themselves will be more inaccurate (subconsciously trying to get a better number, pinching the calipers too hard, not being able to do a 7 point test, general human error). To be honest, it's not a big deal to have an accurate bf%, you'd have to get a DEXA scan to be accurate, and the mirror is cheaper. Bulk, cut, repeat until you like where you're at.
With consistency you can get an idea of ups, and downs in body fat, but it's not going to give you an accurate bf% or LBM. 17.5 pounds is a butt load of muscle and if you gained it, you'd know.

Women gain about .5-1lb of muscle a month in a surplus, so it's take at least a couple years in a surplus to put on that kind of LBM, not including that the rate of muscle gain slows own after a time, and 1lb/month would be if you get everything 100% on point (which even the most tedious of us tend to not do). Also, gaining that much more muscle than fat would be impossible, it's about 50/50 (and some is water/glycogen in the muscles to) unless you put on extra fat. Being shorter, you could aim to gain at a rate of 1-1.5lb/month instead next time around, and that'll help give you more time before that fluffy feeling sets in.

Again, I'm not trying to be discouraging, this is about a) making sure your thyroid is truly medicated properly so you can rule that out b) making sure there's no potential error in tracking somewhere (because even with thyroid problems, you'd still lose at 950cals) c) give you a more realistic idea of how much of a pain it is to figure out LBM so you can set realistic expectation, and not be set up for disappointment later. d) help set a better guideline for bulking next time so you can get the most out of it.

That said, I wouldn't advice cutting until the numbers make sense. One that's figured out, you could cut down to about 115 and give bulking another shot at a slower pace. The holidays are coming up anyway, so if you don't want to be cutting then,just maintain, get your tracking, and TDEE figured out properly, and do that starting 2018.

I weigh all foods by the gram so it should be relatively accurate. I eat out once a fortnight usually. I might have to pay a visit to the dr then, although its definitely not going to be thyroid related.

It is a lot of muscle which I'm sure isn't entirely muscle. Ive been planning to have a dexa scan done so now I might go ahead with that for some accurate data.

If I were to cut before the new year though to start out fresh, how would I go about it given my calories are so low?? I desperately want to as its summer here now and I'm wearing full length pants just to cover things up haha. If I try to up my calories to a normal range then I'm only going to get fatter which is why I'm just like blehhh... stressing me out :/