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  1. #1
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    Any Sheiko Experts on Here?

    I use the app and am trying to determine which program to run next.

    I am a push-pull lifter and actually use the squat programming from the app for my deadlift, and completely skip the actual deadlift portion of the program. So Monday I deadlift/bench, wed I bench, and Friday I deadlift/bench.

    March - May: Intermediate Small Load Program (running squat portion of the program on deadlifts)
    Max Inputs: Bench Press: 315 Squat: 525
    Result: Bench Press: 380 Deadlift: 585

    June - Oct: Intermediate Medium Load Program (repeated portions of the program to peak for an event in early October) (running squat portion of the program on deadlifts)

    Max Inputs: Bench Press: 345 Squat: 545
    Results: Bench Press: 380 Deadlift: 650

    Sheiko recently posted this regarding changing programs:

    "If a program consisting of 10-12 weeks gave a good gain in each lift, say +10 kg (22lbs) and more, then I recommend this program to repeat. You just have to use new maxes. You will experience some difficulties due to higher weights during first 2 weeks. Don't worry, just endure a little bit. In two weeks your body will adapt to the new load. If my athlete improves his maximum by 15-20kg (33-44lbs) at the test in the gym, then I increase his maximum by only 10kg. If I see that the athlete has already adapted to the new weights and work with 80% with no problem, then we increase maxes again by 5-10kg. Usually it takes 3-4 weeks. If the athlete does not add anything after a 10-12-weeks program, I change it (not the athlete - the program)."

    So my bench press did not go up, but my deadlift increased by 65lbs. I think my deadlift could probably continue to progress using the intermediate medium load program with a higher max, but I’m not sure about my bench press.

    Should I repeat the intermediate medium load cycle for both lifts but just with higher maxes? Or would it be weird to repeat the intermediate medium load cycle for just my deadlift and simultaneously run the intermediate large load cycle for my bench press?

    I have previously run the Intermediate Large Load cycle for my bench press which resulted in a 385lb bench press and the Advanced Small Load cycle which resulted in a 400lb bench press back in 2015. I then took 2016 off from training.
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  2. #2
    Registered User TygaTyga's Avatar
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    You need to do the advanced programs since it's made for class 1+, the loads are more of a representation of what weight class you're in from what I've read so small medium large is dependant on your weight. Small being for heavy , large for light folks.

    Btw I'm no expert just doing sheiko intermediate

    And your lifts will put you above class 1. So welcome to 4x a week program with 2 deadlift says if u want to switch back to doing what sheiko has programmed
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    Originally Posted by TygaTyga View Post
    You need to do the advanced programs since it's made for class 1+, the loads are more of a representation of what weight class you're in from what I've read so small medium large is dependant on your weight. Small being for heavy , large for light folks.

    Btw I'm no expert just doing sheiko intermediate

    And your lifts will put you above class 1. So welcome to 4x a week program with 2 deadlift says if u want to switch back to doing what sheiko has programmed
    How long does the program take.
    BP: 165kgs
    SQ: 233kgs
    100M: 10.56
    BW: 80kgs
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  4. #4
    Registered User TygaTyga's Avatar
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    12-13 For intermediates 16-20 for advanced all depending on which load you use.

    Personally I feel the advanced programs are a lot more polished than the intermediate. I swear I've also came across people recommending they get on advanced as soon as they can.

    You have test days within the program so you can keep adjusting your 1rm before end of program.

    Some people add weight after each 4 week training block I think about 10lbs. Sheiko doesn't like inflated training maxs though and I think the staff that work with him prefer adding reps instead of weight after each training block. If you feel great they don't mind u adding 5% to your top sets
    Last edited by TygaTyga; 11-09-2017 at 02:59 AM.
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    Spoon Pic Connoisseur adamsz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TygaTyga View Post
    You need to do the advanced programs since it's made for class 1+, the loads are more of a representation of what weight class you're in from what I've read so small medium large is dependant on your weight. Small being for heavy , large for light folks.

    Btw I'm no expert just doing sheiko intermediate

    And your lifts will put you above class 1. So welcome to 4x a week program with 2 deadlift says if u want to switch back to doing what sheiko has programmed
    Thanks for the response. The problem with with the lifter's classifications are that they are based on your total and not individual lifts. I haven't squatted really at all in years, with my best squat being 415 at around 210BW. The 650 DL was around 270 BW and 400 bench around 265 BW. With those numbers I'm around a class 1 or CMS.

    Being a push/pull lifter makes it a bit complicated for running the programs. The bench portion works great, but the squat and deadlift portions obviously build off each other. Just as an experiment I decided to run the squat programming (reps/sets/etc) for my deadlift with a lowered max, and completely ignore the actual deadlift programming, and it's worked great so far. I tried doing it with a max closer to my real 1RM for about a month though and it was way too much.


    Originally Posted by TygaTyga View Post
    12-13 For intermediates 16-20 for advanced all depending on which load you use.

    Personally I feel the advanced programs are a lot more polished than the intermediate. I swear I've also came across people recommending they get on advanced as soon as they can.

    You have test days within the program so you can keep adjusting your 1rm before end of program.

    Some people add weight after each 4 week training block I think about 10lbs. Sheiko doesn't like inflated training maxs though and I think the staff that work with him prefer adding reps instead of weight after each training block. If you feel great they don't mind u adding 5% to your top sets
    What makes you say that the advanced programs are much more polished than the intermediate ones? In what regards?
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    Best Gym Lifts / Best Competition lifts (raw)

    Squat: lol fml
    Bench Press: 400 / 380
    Deadlift: 650 / 585
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  6. #6
    Registered User TygaTyga's Avatar
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    The Increase in frequency seems to be a better approach and since sheiko seems to like taking more of a scientific approach to training it makes sense. After the Norwegian study ( I think the sample size was too small but it's best we got so far)

    Obviously the deadlift varies from person to person but I feel deadlifting x2 a week is better since sheiko programs always emphasize God tier form and plenty of practice only doing the lift once a week at much lower volumes don't really ingrain the movement pattern as well as training the lift more frequently would.

    In the advanced program deadlift volume sometimes higher than the squat. It also introduces different assistance exercises like front squats which I think he programs in to help people that excessively drift too far forward back squating but according to other powerlifters front squats also have better carryover to be deadlift than say a backsquat (this is just opinion that I've read)

    Also sheiko came about from people getting their hands on lifters specific specialized programs tailored to them and was never meant to be used as a cookie cutter however, the 4 day advanced program is relatively new and is probably designed better to address more common issues you would find in a large population size as opposed to issues / preferences that one specific individual he was training has.

    If you generally go through the training blocks as provided on the app you will see there is more lat work in the advanced program and the conventional deadlift benefits from having a strong upper back. If you go through the intermediate lat training is almost non existent and I'm sure it is somewhat if a frequently asked questions about why there isn't lat training

    After watching several guys do sheiko on YouTube they always ran some variation of the 3 day program and I felt for a lot of these people their deadlift gains weren't too impressive

    Plus analysing what you've done to the 3 day program if you're following the squat routine for your deadlift you essentially edited the program to have 2 deadlift says with much higher volume and you say it's working well. Notice how it fits more in line with the advanced model?

    Generally I also just like going an extra day and the assistance exercises look to be more thought out.

    This is also just opinion of the programs and loads that are relevant to me I haven't looked at every prep cycle in the app
    Last edited by TygaTyga; 11-10-2017 at 06:51 AM.
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  7. #7
    Ruslting Jimmies JamesA1990's Avatar
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    Are you a full time push pull lifter or are u just training for a push pull currently?

    If the latter, then id do sheiko as normal and not put a hold on your squat progress

    If you always only ever do push pull, then i wouldnt recommend doing deadlifts with squat programing. Also, id still squat at least 1 x per week
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  8. #8
    Spoon Pic Connoisseur adamsz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JamesA1990 View Post
    Are you a full time push pull lifter or are u just training for a push pull currently?

    If the latter, then id do sheiko as normal and not put a hold on your squat progress

    If you always only ever do push pull, then i wouldnt recommend doing deadlifts with squat programing. Also, id still squat at least 1 x per week
    I am a full time push pull lifter.

    I tore my groin back in 2013 and even after a lot of PT and rehab it's still never healed 100% correctly. Whenever I barbell squat with any regularity the injury starts rearing it's head again, even after taking long periods of time off the movement. The only squat variation I do it belt squats which for whatever reason doesn't bother my groin too much.

    Using the squat programming for the deadlifts has just been a big experiment, which so far has worked great. Previous to this experiment I hired a coach for my DL programming for about a year and did tons of DL variations like block pulls, deficit pulls, pause DLs, in addition to the normal pulling. That took my pull from 525 to 585. Since using the sheiko squat programming for my DL in an 8 month or so span it's gone from 585 to 650 with zero DL variations. I don't know if one style is necessarily better or more optimal than the other, but so far this is working so I'm gonna stick with it until it doesn't anymore.
    Last edited by adamsz; 11-15-2017 at 01:31 AM.
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    Registered User TygaTyga's Avatar
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    Mind if I ask you to describe the area and pain in detail? When I first joined this site and got on SS I got a strong squat for my age and had to quit because of what I also called a groin Injury what fixed it was simply a band that goes up to 60kg pull strength

    Took me years to figure out how to stop it because like you described the moment id regularly start squatting it would come back
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    Spoon Pic Connoisseur adamsz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TygaTyga View Post
    Mind if I ask you to describe the area and pain in detail? When I first joined this site and got on SS I got a strong squat for my age and had to quit because of what I also called a groin Injury what fixed it was simply a band that goes up to 60kg pull strength

    Took me years to figure out how to stop it because like you described the moment id regularly start squatting it would come back
    With the initial injury it was at the very top of my right adductor basically right by my dink/ballsack. Basically your "groin" in general terms. In the last few years whenever I've tried getting back into squatting it's slightly lower, but still in the top half of the adductor.
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  11. #11
    Registered User TygaTyga's Avatar
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    Would you describe it as deep pain which starts off mild but as you train through it becomes like a sharp stabbing kind of pain and eventually it can hurt to sometimes walk or side step etc
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    Spoon Pic Connoisseur adamsz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TygaTyga View Post
    Would you describe it as deep pain which starts off mild but as you train through it becomes like a sharp stabbing kind of pain and eventually it can hurt to sometimes walk or side step etc
    it's always just more of an intense strain that gets worse and worse. Only really notice it when I'm squatting except for when I actually tore it and could feel it walking and everything else.
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