Skinny fat? Should I cut or bulk first?

[Mike199612]

20 y/o male and I'm skinny fat(I think). I'm a bit under 5'11" and weight around 155 lbs. Do you guys suggest I cut down to a leaner weight and then bulk? Also, any idea if my hips are abnormally wide or are those just love handles?

[MaskedMustache]

Definitely bulk hard

[Mike199612]

Definitely bulk hard

Any idea what my bf% is? I would say 15-20% but im not too sure. Also would you say im on the lighter/weaker side of skinny fat?

[MaskedMustache]

Sorry I don't know about BF% much your guess is as good as mine but that sounds right for the pics. I'm 5'9 165 lbs right now I just bulked from 130. You can go on my page and look at my
Before and after pics (won't let me add attachment image) if you're curious what will happen if you try to cut compared to bulking.
Trust me you wanna bulk

[Mike199612]

Sorry I don't know about BF% much your guess is as good as mine but that sounds right for the pics. I'm 5'9 165 lbs right now I just bulked from 130. You can go on my page and look at my
Before and after pics (won't let me add attachment image) if you're curious what will happen if you try to cut compared to bulking.
Trust me you wanna bulk

What worked for you? You look "skinny fat" in your first picture at 130lbs so I was wondering what you did differently to change that besides just lift and eat healthy? Also any idea why a lot of my fat goes straight to the hips and love handles to kinda make an "hourglass shape"? Is that a normal skinny guy thing or could it be something else?

[MaskedMustache]

Clean up your diet of junk fast food and soda but don't eat less eat way more.
Helps if you actually set macros and hit them every day like 3,000 calories 200 grams protein 350 carbs something like that and eat it every day you will see far better progress than with a crappy diet. My workout have been a mixture of heavy compound lifts and low weight high rep for everything else. I currently go to the gym 4
Days a week and always start with a heavy 5x5 compound either bench squat or
Deadlift and then proceed to hit those muscles with other high rep excersizes

[cosm0]

Eat at maintenance or slightly above.

Look about 20% with no muscle, they're just love handles. And they arent even that bad

[MaskedMustache]

Don't listen to this guy he thinks it takes 2 years to lose 15 lbs, eating "at maintenance" is obviously what your already doing you will get no more progress than you already aren't.

[Mike199612]

Eat at maintenance or slightly above.

Look about 20% with no muscle, they're just love handles. And they arent even that bad

Cut or bulk first?

[MaskedMustache]

He told you, eat at maintenance, so basically he thinks you're super weak looking and need to just start doing SOME type of excersize with your normal daily intake to build some muscle. Sure might be right but do you want meh some results or do you want some RESULTS. Pick up the heavy weight and eat big and bulk and you'll see the progress you want

[cosm0]

Don't listen to this guy he thinks it takes 2 years to lose 15 lbs, eating "at maintenance" is obviously what your already doing you will get no more progress than you already aren't.

Looks to me like hes just started training. You say don't listen to this guy, you've made your account this month. I have been around these parts for ages helping people. I see this kind of thing all the time. He hasnt got low bodyfat, so bulking hard is terrible advice and turn him into a fat blob.

Cut or bulk first?

Eat at maintenance and go from there, you will lose fat doing this and build muscle. Monitor yourself regularly with photos. Do not bulk hard, otherwise you will get very fat, and your love handles will get worse.

[Mike199612]

Looks to me like hes just started training. You say don't listen to this guy, you've made your account this month. I have been around these parts for ages helping people. I see this kind of thing all the time. He hasnt got low bodyfat, so bulking hard is terrible advice and turn him into a fat blob.



Eat at maintenance and go from there, you will lose fat doing this and build muscle. Monitor yourself regularly with photos. Do not bulk hard, otherwise you will get very fat, and your love handles will get worse.

Any good workout and nutrition programs to get me started? Also at what bodyfat% should I increase my calorie intake and start bulking?

[cosm0]

Any good workout and nutrition programs to get me started? Also at what bodyfat% should I increase my calorie intake and start bulking?

You should never really bulk when you are above 20% bodyfat. Its difficult because you are around 20% and have little muscle.

http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

And in my signature id recommend ice cream fitness program.

It sounds like you need to educate yourself first. Read the stickies in the workout forum section, read the stickies in the nutriton section of the forum. It doesn't matter what you eat, you need to follow macros thats whats important

[MaskedMustache]

So sad this page is overrun by people who think they know it all. his idea of "maintenance" and your idea are way off. Clearly his diet isn't up to par and by the lack of muscles he's not eating enough of the right food. I garuntee you clean your diet up and increase intake you will look way better. No you won't have abs but you won't be fat and then when you cut from there you will have actual muscle. Yeah maybe I'm new but progress speaks for itself I built this body in two months

[cosm0]

So sad this page is overrun by people who think they know it all. his idea of "maintenance" and your idea are way off. Clearly his diet isn't up to par and by the lack of muscles he's not eating enough of the right food. I garuntee you clean your diet up and increase intake you will look way better. No you won't have abs but you won't be fat and then when you cut from there you will have actual muscle. Yeah maybe I'm new but progress speaks for itself I built this body in two months

No, my idea of maintenance is what a calorie calculator says. Hes around 20% and you suggest a massive bulk, he will look too fat and your nutrient partitioning is worse at higher bodyfat. ANY person will tell you it is sub optimal to bulk from high bodyfat.

[WolfRose7]

a recomp at maintenance or somewhat above (say 200 calorie surplus) is probably advisable.

Run a pro written novice program while doing this though.

Source = gbullock32

NUTRITION

This is the largest factor in your success, learn the basics to get started and then move into more advanced if needed.

BASICS

Spoiler!

Calculate calorie needs: First get your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate), then multiply by an activity factor to get your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure).

BMR= 370 + (21.6 x LBM (Lean Body Mass), Where LBM = [Total Weight (KG) x (100 - Body Fat %)] /100

Next take that number and use an activity factor to get TDEE (more active, use a higher number and lower number for less active) but remember this accounts for all activity and not just exercise (busy job/active life, choose a higher value)-
1.2- Sedentary (desk job and little exercise/activity)
1.3-1.4- Lightly Active Light daily activity, light exercise 1-3 times per week)
1.5-1.6- Moderately Active (Moderately active, moderate exercise 3-5 times per week)
1.7-1.8- Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle, hard exercise 5-7 times per week)
1.9-2.2- Extremely Active (Endurance athlete, very hard physical job)

Now that you have the TDEE, get your macro-nutrient needs (fat, protein, and carb needs). Fat has 9 calories per gram, and protein/carbs have 4 calories per gram, alcohol is 7 calories per gram count it as a carb when fitting it into your macros).

Protein- .8 grams per pound
Fat- .4 grams per pound

Meet those MINIMUMS and then fill out remaining calories as you want with carbs, or more protein and fat, or any combination. Remember to track properly too, use a food scale (measuring cups can be very inaccurate due to density); track everything, each little bit adds up (sauces can be quite calorie dense).

Next decide your goal and eat at a 10-20% caloric deficit or surplus, deficit to lose weight and surplus to gain. For gaining go for ~.5-1 pound per week and when losing aim for 1-2 pounds per week. Reach your macro needs with mostly whole foods and a wide variety to ensure enough vitamins and mineral, but remember to practice common sense and moderation- enjoy life.

Sources and More Information

Spoiler!

Nutrition-
Calculating Calories
Pre, During, and Postworkout Nutrition
How To Ask For Diet Critique
Discretionary Calorie Allowance
Macro/Micro Nutrients Explained
Why 'Clean Eating' Is a Myth
Clean Eating Myth 2
Insulin and Fat Loss
Insulin and Fat Loss 2

Protein-
Protein Needs
Protein Needs 2
Protein Timing

Fat-
Fat Needs
Fat and Testosterone

Meal Timing-
Meal Timing 1
Meal Timing 2

Micro-Nutrient Guide-
Micro-Nutrient Guide

TRAINING

Start with a solid beginner routine, these are designed to get the most for you; they are designed by professionals and use progressive overload. Read through them and pick the one you like most, follow it as it is written.

Why You Should Not Make Your Own Routine
How To Perform Basic Lifts

Routines
Fierce 5
Viking's Bare Bones
PL2W Novice
GreySkull LP



Youtube Videos

Spoiler!

[Mike199612]

Just scrolling through the forum Starting Strength seems to get recommended pretty often? What do you think?

[cosm0]

Just scrolling through the forum Starting Strength seems to get recommended pretty often? What do you think?

Starting strength is good if your goals are strength based. But if you want a more hypertrophy based (size) program as well as strength. I would recommend fierce5 or ice cream fitness.

[MaskedMustache]

You're not taking into considerations while yeah his bf% may be high his muses aren't developed properly at all so it's not the same as someone with a good base of muscle that has the same bf% as him.
He will build a decent muscle base quick compared to someone who already works out w heavy weights

[Mike199612]

You're not taking into considerations while yeah his bf% may be high his muses aren't developed properly at all so it's not the same as someone with a good base of muscle that has the same bf% as him.
He will build a decent muscle base quick compared to someone who already works out w heavy weights

Usually how long until people start seeing results and how much muscle weight should I be gaining monthly?

[MaskedMustache]

You'll jump up in weight at first but a lot of it will be excess food in you from eating and water weight. 10 lbs in the first month EASY and it won't be "fat" it will just be your body and muscles pumping up with fluid basically. Drink a gallon of water a day and a gallon of milk a day. Don't ALMOST do it or drink half or don't complain when you don't see results. You do that and do starting strength for the first month your number will jump compared to what they are now don't worry about anything else til you get to that point.

[YoungYetWise]

Definitely a bulk.

[CommitmentRulz]

You'll jump up in weight at first but a lot of it will be excess food in you from eating and water weight. 10 lbs in the first month EASY and it won't be "fat" it will just be your body and muscles pumping up with fluid basically. Drink a gallon of water a day and a gallon of milk a day. Don't ALMOST do it or drink half or don't complain when you don't see results. You do that and do starting strength for the first month your number will jump compared to what they are now don't worry about anything else til you get to that point.

A gallon of milk a day? Op, listen to this guy if you want to get fat...

[Mike199612]

Looks to me like hes just started training. You say don't listen to this guy, you've made your account this month. I have been around these parts for ages helping people. I see this kind of thing all the time. He hasnt got low bodyfat, so bulking hard is terrible advice and turn him into a fat blob.



Eat at maintenance and go from there, you will lose fat doing this and build muscle. Monitor yourself regularly with photos. Do not bulk hard, otherwise you will get very fat, and your love handles will get worse.

I always thought that I had to eat at a calorie surplus to gain muscle? Wont eating at maintenance leave my muscle gains stagnate?

[Mike199612]

A gallon of milk a day? Op, listen to this guy if you want to get fat...

What would you suggest I do?

[cLs21]

I suggest a bulk but don't exces with the carbs , high protein , and slowly build up your strength foundation .

[CommitmentRulz]

What would you suggest I do?

Lean bulk. (Gain 2 pounds a MONTH while killing it in the gym.) First week or so you may gain more (like 5 pounds) as your body adjusts to the new increase. An excess of 200 calories a day will result in about 2 pounds a month gain. Good luck!

[Mike199612]

Lean bulk. (Gain 2 pounds a MONTH while killing it in the gym.) First week or so you may gain more (like 5 pounds) as your body adjusts to the new increase. An excess of 200 calories a day will result in about 2 pounds a month gain. Good luck!

Would it be a bad idea to cut down to 15%bf or so before going on a lean bulk? I hear nutrient partitioning is worse at a higher bf%

[Mike199612]

I suggest a bulk but don't exces with the carbs , high protein , and slowly build up your strength foundation .

Would it be a bad idea to cut down to 15%bf or so before going on a bulk? I hear nutrient partitioning is worse at a higher bf%

[Mike199612]

a recomp at maintenance or somewhat above (say 200 calorie surplus) is probably advisable.

Run a pro written novice program while doing this though.

NUTRITION

This is the largest factor in your success, learn the basics to get started and then move into more advanced if needed.

BASICS

Spoiler!

Calculate calorie needs: First get your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate), then multiply by an activity factor to get your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure).

BMR= 370 + (21.6 x LBM (Lean Body Mass), Where LBM = [Total Weight (KG) x (100 - Body Fat %)] /100

Next take that number and use an activity factor to get TDEE (more active, use a higher number and lower number for less active) but remember this accounts for all activity and not just exercise (busy job/active life, choose a higher value)-
1.2- Sedentary (desk job and little exercise/activity)
1.3-1.4- Lightly Active Light daily activity, light exercise 1-3 times per week)
1.5-1.6- Moderately Active (Moderately active, moderate exercise 3-5 times per week)
1.7-1.8- Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle, hard exercise 5-7 times per week)
1.9-2.2- Extremely Active (Endurance athlete, very hard physical job)

Now that you have the TDEE, get your macro-nutrient needs (fat, protein, and carb needs). Fat has 9 calories per gram, and protein/carbs have 4 calories per gram, alcohol is 7 calories per gram count it as a carb when fitting it into your macros).

Protein- .8 grams per pound
Fat- .4 grams per pound

Meet those MINIMUMS and then fill out remaining calories as you want with carbs, or more protein and fat, or any combination. Remember to track properly too, use a food scale (measuring cups can be very inaccurate due to density); track everything, each little bit adds up (sauces can be quite calorie dense).

Next decide your goal and eat at a 10-20% caloric deficit or surplus, deficit to lose weight and surplus to gain. For gaining go for ~.5-1 pound per week and when losing aim for 1-2 pounds per week. Reach your macro needs with mostly whole foods and a wide variety to ensure enough vitamins and mineral, but remember to practice common sense and moderation- enjoy life.

[/spoiler]

About a recomp. How does one exactly gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? I always assumed it was one or the other?