Clean bulk and strength training

[domasikas]

Hello!

Firstly, I'm 180cm, 75 kg, just finished my cut (from 84 kg) and now doing a clean bulk (for 3 weeks now) while continuing doing fierce 5 intermediate strength program.

I was wondering, how is clean bulking related to strength training? I've read that clean bulking might not be that useful when training for strength as you exhaust yourself more (I'm confused on this one) and the small caloric surplus is not enough to recover your body.

The question also leads to a problem I'm having right now. I consider myself a novice and before I started cutting I would progressively add more weights to my lifts. When I cut, the weights obviously stalled, but now that I'm back on my bulk, the weights are still dropping, but at a very slow pace. I thought the strength would immediately bounce back up, but it's still stalling. Any thoughts?

[Mrpb]

Hello!

Firstly, I'm 180cm, 75 kg, just finished my cut (from 84 kg) and now doing a clean bulk (for 3 weeks now) while continuing doing fierce 5 intermediate strength program.

Do you have a current picture? I'd like to see how much body fat you have.

I've read that clean bulking might not be that useful when training for strength as you exhaust yourself more (I'm confused on this one) and the small caloric surplus is not enough to recover your body.

That's nonsense. Where did you read that?

The question also leads to a problem I'm having right now. I consider myself a novice and before I started cutting I would progressively add more weights to my lifts. When I cut, the weights obviously stalled, but now that I'm back on my bulk, the weights are still dropping, but at a very slow pace. I thought the strength would immediately bounce back up, but it's still stalling. Any thoughts?

If you are novice, why are you on the intermediate program?

Have you been gaining weight? If you are gaining weight you should not be losing strength.

[unplugged]

Do you have a current picture? I'd like to see how much body fat you have.


That's nonsense. Where did you read that?



If you are novice, why are you on the intermediate program?

Have you been gaining weight? If you are gaining weight you should not be losing strength.

Yup basically all of these and I agree however if he knows all the movements in the program and is executing them properly it's fine. To your question OP it's only been three weeks but as above if you are eating enough to gain weight your strength should be at least maintaining if not increasing. Has anything else in your lifestyle changed recently that could explain the drop in performance such as sleep, longer work hours, etc? It's really impossible for us to know as there are many factors involved and we have no idea what your life consists of outside the gym

[domasikas]

Yup basically all of these and I agree however if he knows all the movements in the program and is executing them properly it's fine. To your question OP it's only been three weeks but as above if you are eating enough to gain weight your strength should be at least maintaining if not increasing. Has anything else in your lifestyle changed recently that could explain the drop in performance such as sleep, longer work hours, etc? It's really impossible for us to know as there are many factors involved and we have no idea what your life consists of outside the gym

Well, I don't really know. I am really busy though with my studies and also I've got a part time job working night shifts in the weekend, which could've affected my performance. Pretty much no free time, and I work for around 7-8 hours a night and get to sleep only around 4 hours afterwards

[domasikas]

Do you have a current picture? I'd like to see how much body fat you have.


That's nonsense. Where did you read that?



If you are novice, why are you on the intermediate program?

Have you been gaining weight? If you are gaining weight you should not be losing strength.

I don't have one currently, but I'm around 12-13%% bodyfat (Can see abs in good lighting).
I can't recall, but I read something along those lines in one of the threads in this forum.
Well, I just wanted a really intensive program, and I like this one, I get pretty exhausted after it. As of now, I'm eating around 2800 calories and in three weeks, my weight stayed around the same 75 kgs. If the weight won't change in another 2 weeks, gonna start eating 3000 cals a day.

[unplugged]

Well, I don't really know. I am really busy though with my studies and also I've got a part time job working night shifts in the weekend, which could've affected my performance. Pretty much no free time, and I work for around 7-8 hours a night and get to sleep only around 4 hours afterwards

Bingo think we've found the culprit there. Sleep is EXTREMELY important to overall health and well-being. Being tired and fatigued will definitely cause sub-optimal performance. Is the 4 hours of sleep just on the weekends though after your shifts and are your workouts that you are losing strength on around those days?

[BennoMac]

my plan is to lean bulk 200 calorie surplus for a long period of time over a year.
As this is my first bulk i want to minimize fat gains while also shooting for hypertrophy.

This can indeed work there was a thread here somewhere of a guy who ran this for 14 months and the results were nice.

Also 4 hours of sleep is no good aim for over 7 hours.

[domasikas]

Bingo think we've found the culprit there. Sleep is EXTREMELY important to overall health and well-being. Being tired and fatigued will definitely cause sub-optimal performance. Is the 4 hours of sleep just on the weekends though after your shifts and are your workouts that you are losing strength on around those days?

I only sleep 4 hours on saturdays and sundays, so I I always train before I start my work weekend (do last workout on friday and then go to work at night; Start training again monday). Actually, another issue can be that instead of barbell bench press I switched to DB bench press and that really fatigued my left arm and pec. That might be an issue. If that's it, I guess i will need to be more patient and wait for my left arm to get used to the workload.

[Mrpb]

I only sleep 4 hours on saturdays and sundays

Fix that. You should get a minimum of 6 hours, ideally 7-8.

[domasikas]

Fix that. You should get a minimum of 6 hours, ideally 7-8.

Well I know it may be the problem, but it's not easy to fix it. I just hate to waste my day sleeping after work because there's so much to do

[domasikas]

Also, maybe it's the problem with my macros. Should I increase my protein intake? Maintenance around 2500, bulking on 2800, carbs: 370g, protein: 175g, fat: 65g

[Mrpb]

I just hate to waste my day sleeping after work because there's so much to do

You've got the wrong idea about how important sleep is both for your physical health and mental health. If you sleep more you will be more productive during the day and get more done.

Here's a good video, takes 10 minutes but then you will know more about how important sleep is.

[domasikas]

You've got the wrong idea about how important sleep is both for your physical health and mental health. If you sleep more you will be more productive during the day and get more done.

Here's a good video, takes 10 minutes but then you will know more about how important sleep is.

I'm not arguing here, totally agree with you and I know that sleep is extremely important. It's just hard to sleep after work and I just wake up after 4-5 hours and can't fall back to sleep

[Mrpb]

I'm not arguing here, totally agree with you and I know that sleep is extremely important. It's just hard to sleep after work and I just wake up after 4-5 hours and can't fall back to sleep

OK. If that only happens 2 days a week and you get more sleep the rest of the week, it's probably not a big problem.

[domasikas]

OK. If that only happens 2 days a week and you get more sleep the rest of the week, it's probably not a big problem.

Yes, throughout the week I get solid 8 hours of sleep. But then again, there must be some reason I don't get stronger, at least by very little

[kraack]

Getting enough sleep is a fuaarking nightmare with kids, broken sleep is the worst.

[Mikeez0]

the weights are still dropping. Any thoughts?

Hello,
Go for deload and start gaining strength all over again

[Mrpb]

Yes, throughout the week I get solid 8 hours of sleep. But then again, there must be some reason I don't get stronger, at least by very little

Well if you haven't gained weight for 3 weeks you can be pretty certain you're not in surplus.

[domasikas]

Well if you haven't gained weight for 3 weeks you can be pretty certain you're not in surplus.

yes and that's what I'm worried about. if nothing changes in a week or two, then for sure I'm going to increase the caloric intake

[domasikas]

Hello,
Go for deload and start gaining strength all over again

I've heard that deloading can actually help a lot when stalling, and since I'm rather busy, I get tired at times throughout the day. But what do you mean by gaining strength all over again? It's not like I'm going to lose it in a week, or at least very little.

[philgriffiths]

he means start the plan all over again.
Deloads are a common feature of well designed strength training programs, as it is inevitable that you will reach your maximum capacity at some stage.
Typically they advise dropping your working weights by 10-20%, and then starting over with the progressive overload

aka 100kg max currently, drop to 80kg, then add 2.5kg per week. in 8 weeks you will be back at 100kg with the idea that weeks 9-12 you may even get up to 110kg and beyond.
Whenever you then stall next, drop by 10-20% again and start over.

[Mrpb]

yes and that's what I'm worried about. if nothing changes in a week or two, then for sure I'm going to increase the caloric intake

That's a long time to wait. I see no reason to wait that long. Try 2900. Then 3000 etc.

[domasikas]

he means start the plan all over again.
Deloads are a common feature of well designed strength training programs, as it is inevitable that you will reach your maximum capacity at some stage.
Typically they advise dropping your working weights by 10-20%, and then starting over with the progressive overload

aka 100kg max currently, drop to 80kg, then add 2.5kg per week. in 8 weeks you will be back at 100kg with the idea that weeks 9-12 you may even get up to 110kg and beyond.
Whenever you then stall next, drop by 10-20% again and start over.

thanks for clearing up! Is it possible to take a break off in the gym, do medium weights, but after that deloading week, start lifting your usual weights?

[philgriffiths]

Maybe, maybe not. But a deload is a proven way of making strength gains when on proven strength training programs.

If you're going to go off-piste, then you can't really ask why things that work for 99.9% of other people don't work for you.