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  1. #61
    Registered User jay283's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SaviorSelfJT View Post
    But you were addressing me. The post you made applied to everyone, including me. My experience invalidates your hypothesis that someone having trouble in the job market boils down to one of those three things.

    I'm not a web developer. A portfolio for me isn't a web site, it is open source contributions and a few projects I made like a small machine learning library. Although one of my projects is actually a small web application but it isn't hosted anywhere.
    I've observed electrical engineering or omputer engineering seems to be taken more seriously than computer science. but i could be wrong. create some solid projects.
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  2. #62
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    Only thing that matters to get a job in the field is that you can show that you can get the job done, whether that be by showing a portfolio you created, an impressive resume, a cool project, whatever. A degree is helpful but by no means the end be all of it.

    I have a degree from a random university in Canada and a lot of internships and work experience under my belt but no portfolio or even github account and I still get called by recruiters all the time to interview for them. Have interviewed for Microsoft, Google, and Amazon.
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  3. #63
    do it for the lulz Rolling's Avatar
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    For those of you who have been in the field for a few years, do you feel like this career eats up a lot of your freetime since you have to keep up with learning constantly changing technology?
    another quality thread by wssicks
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  4. #64
    Registered User DrFeeIGood's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rolling View Post
    For those of you who have been in the field for a few years, do you feel like this career eats up a lot of your freetime since you have to keep up with learning constantly changing technology?
    Man thats with any GOOD career...law, medicine, management, sales...comes with the territory and high pay..embrace it if you want to be successful
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by DrinkingBull View Post
    Man I'm a senior computer engineering major and this has not been my experience so far. I have a job already lined up and other offers rolling in.

    I'll admit that I am considered one of the top coders in the ECE/CS dept but I don't go to Stanford or anything like that. I really don't get the impression that it's this tough to find a job right now for competent coders with some experience under their belt.
    How did you get to be considered one of the top coders? Online competition?

    Computer engineer crew checking in btw.
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  6. #66
    Registered User Wheyvid's Avatar
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    Building projects are the best way to get good at programming start with something small and work your way up.
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  7. #67
    Unregistered User jlick's Avatar
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    lately i've been thinking about learning to code. i have a pretty good full time job right now with good benefits. i'm looking to learn some new skills and earn some supplemental incom on the weekends while my girlfriend is busy working. do you think it would be a good route for me? What kind of computer do you need to start coding?
    -You are only as strong as your weakest link-
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  8. #68
    Registered User Pakman52's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wheyvid View Post
    Building projects are the best way to get good at programming start with something small and work your way up.
    This is correct. I learned a little bit of javascript until I realized python would be easier for what I was trying to do. The curricula out there isn't wrong, but its a dry path.
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  9. #69
    Registered User chad12121's Avatar
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    I studied IT for a year in college, the classes are mostly male i learned alot
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  10. #70
    Registered Developer lockdev's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SaviorSelfJT View Post
    He's right, many CS grads from top schools are starting to have trouble finding entry level work. Can't imagine what it would be like without a degree.
    Absolute horse chit. Very tempted to neg.

    There are not enough qualified developers for jobs right now at all levels.

    CS grads stand out above the sea of degreeless Timothys that "learned" coding from watching Gupta's chit-tier videos on YouTube. For ever rockstar with a github and no degree, there are a thousand of these Timothys.

    Chit, we're hiring where I'm at right now and the HR guy keeps complaining about the flood of resumes from unqualified applicants and how he "just wants one qualified candidate". That qualification is simply a CS or IS degree.
    Last edited by lockdev; 07-21-2019 at 07:34 AM.
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  11. #71
    Registered User Oglem's Avatar
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    I know one good resource for learning programming for free is codecademy. Also, the w3schools.com website has some good courses. Khanacademy.org is another free website to learn about computer science.
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  12. #72
    Registered User fr8train's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fr8train View Post
    I've spent the last year looking for an entry level job with no luck. I'm currently in a graduate CS program. I did math and CS in undergrad.

    Entry level programming jobs are insanely competitive. I've even been rejected from places like FDM and Revature that supposedly hire people with little experience and train them in exchange for not so great 2 year contracts. With FDM I didn't even get to the point of being tested in anything, they rejected me after my first HR style interview. Revature never responded to me.

    I figured I'd post this as a heads up for people looking to get into this field. Doing so has been the worst decision of my life. I've spent years in school and tens of thousands of dollars, and I have nothing to show for it other than sleepless nights and compounding stress with school that I fear will never pay off.
    I figured I'd post an update on what happened, for the sake of the one person who skims through this thread at some point from a google search.

    I took over two years to find a job. I had a handful of interviews with ridiculous white board questions that none of the senior devs I work with now could even begin to solve. Looking back now I'm convinced they do this so they can reject qualified American candidates and claim there are no qualified applicants, so they in turn can hire more Indians. People like the guy I'm quoting below are a huge part of the problem. I was starting to think I was stupid and you had to be genius to do computer programming. That could not be further from the truth. There's tons of people in this field that are horrible programmers, even with years and years of experience. I've been working for only about a year and I'm able to complete my work in about the same time as people who had been working at my company for decades. I don't say this to brag, as there are also very smart people working here, but this job isn't nearly as difficult as everyone tries to make it out to be. 99% of the stuff I was doing in school was useless.

    Since I was desperate for a job to get into this ridiculous field, the job I did get wasn't in a sexy new language, or anything that's used nearly everywhere, like Java. I ended up getting a job in COBOL. I'm happy to finally have a job that's somewhat related to what I was looking for.

    Originally Posted by Charlie Murphy View Post
    There is 100% a shortage of good developers out there. See it everyday. Don't know where the heck you all are looking.

    And I'll say again, if you can't find a job in this field it's one or all three of these things.

    1. You refuse to be willing to look at areas farther than 15 miles from home cause you're so attached to mommy's tit.

    2. You have no portfolio of work. Doesn't matter if it's not real (meaning it doesn't have to be a site you put together for a real restaurant. A fake one is fine so long as the code is real). You need to show you know what you are doing.

    3. You come off as a serial killer in interviews. I can't stress enough that having a good personality will set you apart from others.

    Not getting a job has everything to do with one of the three situation above.

    Now I also want to address the "Indians stealing jobs thing". It's all bull****. Here's how it works company A desperately needs people, they can't find people. Partially because they can't find people with the skills. Partially because it's their location. Partially it's because "it's not facebook or apple". Many reasons. They want to hire you, but you don't want to work there thus they have no choice but to go the route they do. The indians are taking the jobs that you don't want.
    1. LOL I was looking all over the country. I ended up finding a job 2 states away (I was living in Chicago, one of the largest job markets in the country).

    2. I had a portfolio, no one cared. It ended up not helping me at all.

    3. The biggest problem was not even getting to the point of having a face to face interview.

    As far as your last comment, what a joke. I've talked to so many programmers that have gone through the same thing I had. If you get lucky and get a job right out of school, or you're hired directly from your internship, that's great, because it's hell out there if you don't.

    LOL also at holding out for facebook or apple. What dream world do you live in? I was applying to everything. I have nothing against Indians, and I don't blame them, everyone only has one life and wants to make the most of it, but companies portending to need them for whatever scam they're running is very much why this industry is such a ****show. They get the bulk of entry level jobs, eventually get citizenship, and live like kings. Some of my coworkers live in borderline mansions. LOL at these being jobs no one wants.
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  13. #73
    Son of Zyzz notoriousthug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fr8train View Post
    I figured I'd post an update on what happened, for the sake of the one person who skims through this thread at some point from a google search.

    I took over two years to find a job. I had a handful of interviews with ridiculous white board questions that none of the senior devs I work with now could even begin to solve. Looking back now I'm convinced they do this so they can reject qualified American candidates and claim there are no qualified applicants, so they in turn can hire more Indians. People like the guy I'm quoting below are a huge part of the problem. I was starting to think I was stupid and you had to be genius to do computer programming. That could not be further from the truth. There's tons of people in this field that are horrible programmers, even with years and years of experience. I've been working for only about a year and I'm able to complete my work in about the same time as people who had been working at my company for decades. I don't say this to brag, as there are also very smart people working here, but this job isn't nearly as difficult as everyone tries to make it out to be. 99% of the stuff I was doing in school was useless.

    Since I was desperate for a job to get into this ridiculous field, the job I did get wasn't in a sexy new language, or anything that's used nearly everywhere, like Java. I ended up getting a job in COBOL. I'm happy to finally have a job that's somewhat related to what I was looking for.
    Why COBOL? What is your role at your company?

    Also, what kind of white board questions did they give you?
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  14. #74
    Registered User XmegaULoad's Avatar
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    I am not a programming expert but I do defend myself in css, html and php. I learned everything by experimenting with blogs and websites. google has tools for that
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  15. #75
    Registered User fr8train's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by notoriousthug View Post
    Why COBOL? What is your role at your company?

    Also, what kind of white board questions did they give you?
    I ended up dropping out of the graduate CS program since I felt like I was throwing more good money after bad, since I already had a good gpa in my undergrad and everywhere I read no one really cares about having a MS in computer science.

    I didn't pick COBOL other than applying for the job, from what I've seen it's pretty unique in that they took me with zero experience in COBOL, and trained me. The training was mostly just bugging senior devs at my job, all of whom have been doing COBOL for the last 20 or 30 years, since there aren't that many resources online for what I do, and a lot of it is unique to our system. It's been kind of a painful process, as a lot of them are old and crotchety, but I had one guy who helped me a lot and would always answer my questions. I've learned more here in a year than all of the years I've spent in school and self studying, but for better or for worse, it's in COBOL which isn't exactly the most in demand language.

    I'm a junior developer btw. I write, but usually just modify existing COBOL programs. I also write and modify JCL, which is a scripting language for old languages like COBOL. That makes up the bulk of what I do.

    Edit: As far as white board questions go, I don't really remember them specifically, but at one place they gave me 15 minutes to solve some crazy logic puzzle in any programming language of my choice. I just remember thinking to myself that people in this field had to be absolute geniuses if they could solve those sort of problems in 15 minutes under a lot of pressure. From what I remember it was some sort of mensa style brain teaser, I have no idea if I ended up doing it correctly, as it was something I had submitted and they never got back to me, so I'm going to assume I did it incorrectly.

    One more thing I'll add for anyone looking to get into this field, if you're having self doubt about your abilities, don't. The guy they hired along side with me had been working as a Java developer for over 3 years, and while I don't know how well that translates into COBOL since this is my first "real" job, he's absolutely terrible and extremely arrogant to boot. I've had to clean up after him many times and I have a lot less on the job experience than he does. If you do okay self studying and have an ounce of humility you can make it, don't let others who have been doing this stuff for years deter you.
    Last edited by fr8train; 06-08-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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  16. #76
    Son of Zyzz notoriousthug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fr8train View Post
    I ended up dropping out of the graduate CS program since I felt like I was throwing more good money after bad, since I already had a good gpa in my undergrad and everywhere I read no one really cares about having a MS in computer science.

    I didn't pick COBOL other than applying for the job, from what I've seen it's pretty unique in that they took me with zero experience in COBOL, and trained me. The training was mostly just bugging senior devs at my job, all of whom have been doing COBOL for the last 20 or 30 years, since there aren't that many resources online for what I do, and a lot of it is unique to our system. It's been kind of a painful process, as a lot of them are old and crotchety, but I had one guy who helped me a lot and would always answer my questions. I've learned more here in a year than all of the years I've spent in school and self studying, but for better or for worse, it's in COBOL which isn't exactly the most in demand language.

    I'm a junior developer btw. I write, but usually just modify existing COBOL programs. I also write and modify JCL, which is a scripting language for old languages like COBOL. That makes up the bulk of what I do.

    Edit: As far as white board questions go, I don't really remember them specifically, but at one place they gave me 15 minutes to solve some crazy logic puzzle in any programming language of my choice. I just remember thinking to myself that people in this field had to be absolute geniuses if they could solve those sort of problems in 15 minutes under a lot of pressure. From what I remember it was some sort of mensa style brain teaser, I have no idea if I ended up doing it correctly, as it was something I had submitted and they never got back to me, so I'm going to assume I did it incorrectly.

    One more thing I'll add for anyone looking to get into this field, if you're having self doubt about your abilities, don't. The guy they hired along side with me had been working as a Java developer for over 3 years, and while I don't know how well that translates into COBOL since this is my first "real" job, he's absolutely terrible and extremely arrogant to boot. I've had to clean up after him many times and I have a lot less on the job experience than he does. If you do okay self studying and have an ounce of humility you can make it, don't let others who have been doing this stuff for years deter you.

    Good job securing the bag man. Job sounds chill tbh brb miscing half the time lol. I'm also trying to get into the field by self learning although I'm also doing computer science in college and I'm definitely not looking forward to the job hunt, sounds brutal. But from the few youtube videos I've watched, data structures and algorithms seem to be the main thing they ask at job interviews so I'm going hard at those and just keep applying and hope i get lucky.
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  17. #77
    Registered User whitepaper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fr8train View Post
    I ended up dropping out of the graduate CS program since I felt like I was throwing more good money after bad, since I already had a good gpa in my undergrad and everywhere I read no one really cares about having a MS in computer science.

    I didn't pick COBOL other than applying for the job, from what I've seen it's pretty unique in that they took me with zero experience in COBOL, and trained me. The training was mostly just bugging senior devs at my job, all of whom have been doing COBOL for the last 20 or 30 years, since there aren't that many resources online for what I do, and a lot of it is unique to our system. It's been kind of a painful process, as a lot of them are old and crotchety, but I had one guy who helped me a lot and would always answer my questions. I've learned more here in a year than all of the years I've spent in school and self studying, but for better or for worse, it's in COBOL which isn't exactly the most in demand language.

    I'm a junior developer btw. I write, but usually just modify existing COBOL programs. I also write and modify JCL, which is a scripting language for old languages like COBOL. That makes up the bulk of what I do.

    Edit: As far as white board questions go, I don't really remember them specifically, but at one place they gave me 15 minutes to solve some crazy logic puzzle in any programming language of my choice. I just remember thinking to myself that people in this field had to be absolute geniuses if they could solve those sort of problems in 15 minutes under a lot of pressure. From what I remember it was some sort of mensa style brain teaser, I have no idea if I ended up doing it correctly, as it was something I had submitted and they never got back to me, so I'm going to assume I did it incorrectly.

    One more thing I'll add for anyone looking to get into this field, if you're having self doubt about your abilities, don't. The guy they hired along side with me had been working as a Java developer for over 3 years, and while I don't know how well that translates into COBOL since this is my first "real" job, he's absolutely terrible and extremely arrogant to boot. I've had to clean up after him many times and I have a lot less on the job experience than he does. If you do okay self studying and have an ounce of humility you can make it, don't let others who have been doing this stuff for years deter you.

    I take it you work for a bank, or at a financial institution of some sort?
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  18. #78
    therichardwalls.com Murdok1741's Avatar
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    Everyone has already captured the recommendations I would've given, but I can tell you in my exploration of programming, there are more than enough free or low cost resources to get you started and take you a long way.

    During that learning period, make sure to develop a portfolio of work along the way so that 1) you get practice, and 2) you have proof points to show to future employers of what you can do.

    I'll add though, start exploring and learning, but don't spend exorbitant amounts of money on something you're not sure you'll enjoy. I think there's a bit of a rush for everyone to learn to code, and while that's a nice idea and there are job opportunities w/ good salaries, you don't want to be miserable doing something you don't actually enjoy.
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