Any supplements to reduce BUN/Creatinine Ratio?

[JohnSmeton]

Ive been getting lab work since 2009, and I think this was the first time bun/creatinine levels were a tad bit high, not much, but I like to see in optimal ranges. I do understand if it goes back down its not an issue, and as long as it doesn't stay high and keep getting higher, etc

anyways I know Cranberries help kidneys. Any other supplements that have shown to show improvements for bun/creatinine, kidneys?

[TMac26]

Stop using creatine (srs), usually elevated levels are due to exogenous creatine usage.

[alicat32]

Stop using creatine (srs), usually elevated levels are due to exogenous creatine usage.

My BUN/Creatinine was off (still is). I saw a nephrologist who told me it is because of the creatine I take. After monitoring, it never got worse, but he said if it did, to just stop the creatine.

[bri88col]

Mine was high..I realized I was taking in way more than 5 grams of creatine a day form preworkout..intra workout..post workout..once I kept track my levels went back to normal

[kbayne]

Increase water intake (make sure not dehydrated before labs) and lower protein intake.

[JohnSmeton]

Increase water intake (make sure not dehydrated before labs) and lower protein intake.

yeah Im going to do all of this. Not use creatine a week or so before. Lower protein intake

[RK42]

Stop using creatine (srs), usually elevated levels are due to exogenous creatine usage.

If creatine intake can elevate the creatinine level, and the OP has an elevated BUN/creatinine ratio: Since the creatinine level is the divisor in the ratio, wouldn't a higher creatinine level actually reduce the ratio? Meaning that creatine intake could reduce the ratio?

[TMac26]

If creatine intake can elevate the creatinine level, and the OP has an elevated BUN/creatinine ratio: Since the creatinine level is the divisor in the ratio, wouldn't a higher creatinine level actually reduce the ratio? Meaning that creatine intake could reduce the ratio?

Well the issues arises when you ingest creatine what is not used is expelled as creatinine. Which is used a bench mark for kidney functions.

Its almost like a "false positive" and docs get concerned when that level is even remotely high.

[XCriticalBenchX]

You are solely talking about your ratio, not your individual numbers. This can get a little complex as your BUN is not always directly associated with your kidneys. For instance, a offsetting ratio from your BUNS end could be from a slight decompensation in your hearts ejection fraction which is VERY common among bodybuilders not using cardioprotective agents like Ace's, arbs, alpha-betas, etc. and running the risk of ventricular remodeling. This is EXTREMELY all to common, ESPECIALLY if the ratio isn't to far off from a 10:1 or 20:1 ratio. Farther off from that ratio can be an indication of bleeding in the GI tract or within the lungs; again nothing to do with the renal system.

Creatine should not be a factor in these lab measurements and you should not have to stop it if you have been on it for a while and have not changed dosages, products, etc. Your body have a tremendous ability to compensate for these elevations and "toxins" in the blood and will adequately remove them as they have no place being there, unless you took a dose within 12 hours of blood work, similar as to why you fast prior to. I take 10g of mono daily and have never had to stop taking creatine for blood work and my nephro would never suggest to as it would just be a bandaid coverup of my true renal function.

With any significant muscle mass beyond the norm, like how I am 5`2, 190lbs with a 6 pack.. your creatinine and bun should be trended but not utilized other than for trending purposes due to there ability to be influenced by muscle mass.

A lab value known as "Cystatin-C" which is a measure of kidney function that can not be altered, even by muscle mass is the lab value that should be used in all men with significant muscle and only good Nephro's will no about it. Your best bet is to buy the test yourself from a lab website and get it done on your own if you are concerned.

There truly is no solid way to reverse kidney damage.. If your kidney values are up, you must find the cause for why and eliminate it, and prevent further damage.

Mike

[XCriticalBenchX]

yeah Im going to do all of this. Not use creatine a week or so before. Lower protein intake

So you can have a poor renal function all year, put a bandaid on it for the day of testing and cheat, have good fake, artificial numbers for a day because you flushed everything out, feel good and happy about how your kidneys are healthy.. when in reality, they are not?

What you should do it, do your own personal labs, lower your protein intake to what your kidneys can handle, and keep it there for your health.

I'm 5`2, 190 with a 6 pack.. I eat 100g protein a day max.. i grow, i get stronger, I don't loose muscle. My creatinine and bun were at the highest end of normal, now they are lower than the middle with a drastically lower protein intake. I use to eat like 250+.. and my numbers were creeping up. So I backed off and found out what I can handle along with what I need to grow.. 100g is more than enough. Add EAAs in..

I'm competing in nationals again this year.. im not blinded, we know how dangerous this sport is.. we have lives to live and a health to maintain. Be smart.. going overboard, whether protein or the darkside, regardless is no good.

I do blood work every 3 months.. I see the effects supplements alone can do to your body

[JohnSmeton]

A lab value known as "Cystatin-C" which is a measure of kidney function that can not be altered, even by muscle mass is the lab value that should be used in all men with significant muscle and only good Nephro's will no about it. Your best bet is to buy the test yourself from a lab website and get it done on your own if you are concerned.

There truly is no solid way to reverse kidney damage.. If your kidney values are up, you must find the cause for why and eliminate it, and prevent further damage.

Mike

Thank you for the Cystatin-C information. Appreciate that Mike

So you can have a poor renal function all year, put a bandaid on it for the day of testing and cheat, have good fake, artificial numbers for a day because you flushed everything out, feel good and happy about how your kidneys are healthy.. when in reality, they are not?

What you should do it, do your own personal labs, lower your protein intake to what your kidneys can handle, and keep it there for your health.

I'm 5`2, 190 with a 6 pack.. I eat 100g protein a day max.. i grow, i get stronger, I don't loose muscle. My creatinine and bun were at the highest end of normal, now they are lower than the middle with a drastically lower protein intake. I use to eat like 250+.. and my numbers were creeping up. So I backed off and found out what I can handle along with what I need to grow.. 100g is more than enough. Add EAAs in..

I'm competing in nationals again this year.. im not blinded, we know how dangerous this sport is.. we have lives to live and a health to maintain. Be smart.. going overboard, whether protein or the darkside, regardless is no good.

I do blood work every 3 months.. I see the effects supplements alone can do to your body

I totally agree with you about health and numbers. Geez 100 grams protein, then again you re taking in eaa's so that counts. have you had kidney issues?

you said cordygen helped your kidneys?

I personally think my kidneys are fine. This is the only time my urea nitrogen (bun ) has shown as 27 (7-25 normal ranges) and bun/Creatinine ratio at 23 (6-22 normal ranges) In fact my Doctor didnt even mention them nor does he want to test for them this time, I just take my health very seriously . Ive been getting tested every three months since I started on trt March of 2014. Like t3 was a little low, out of range, then it goes back up to normal, so i think this is normal, as long as the numbers go back into range on another test. Hes concerned about my ast alt liver enzymes which are ast 45 and alt 65. Ive had bloodwork since 2009 and they've always been slightly elevated and never got any higher, and its because of intense training. Intense training definitely causes liver enzymes to go up as you may know. I like to keep my doctor happy as this is where I get my trt and dont feel like looking for another doctor, as its close to my home, and works for me. Ive had a previous Doctor that was fine with my alt being up to 72, I explained it was from training. This Doctor is skeptical, so before the liver ezyme test sure I may take sure milk thistle or tudca to go down, even though I know everything is fine. I understand the doctor works for you, I got to do whats best for me, and right now I live in a small city, and dont feel like searching for another Doctor. If it comes to that point well no worries

I competed in Junior Nationals this past summer in Chi town broski. I measured in at 6ft2.5 for classic physique. I was the tallest cat there out of at least 500 competitors, I was number 497. I think there may have been 1000 competitors. This is classic physique D 6ft and over. Im on far right

[XCriticalBenchX]

Thank you for the Cystatin-C information. Appreciate that Mike



I totally agree with you about health and numbers. Geez 100 grams protein, then again you re taking in eaa's so that counts. have you had kidney issues?

you said cordygen helped your kidneys?

I personally think my kidneys are fine. This is the only time my urea nitrogen (bun ) has shown as 27 (7-25 normal ranges) and bun/Creatinine ratio at 23 (6-22 normal ranges) In fact my Doctor didnt even mention them nor does he want to test for them this time, I just take my health very seriously . Ive been getting tested every three months since I started on trt March of 2014. Like t3 was a little low, out of range, then it goes back up to normal, so i think this is normal, as long as the numbers go back into range on another test. Hes concerned about my ast alt liver enzymes which are ast 45 and alt 65. Ive had bloodwork since 2009 and they've always been slightly elevated and never got any higher, and its because of intense training. Intense training definitely causes liver enzymes to go up as you may know. I like to keep my doctor happy as this is where I get my trt and dont feel like looking for another doctor, as its close to my home, and works for me. Ive had a previous Doctor that was fine with my alt being up to 72, I explained it was from training. This Doctor is skeptical, so before the liver ezyme test sure I may take sure milk thistle or tudca to go down, even though I know everything is fine. I understand the doctor works for you, I got to do whats best for me, and right now I live in a small city, and dont feel like searching for another Doctor. If it comes to that point well no worries

I competed in Junior Nationals this past summer in Chi town broski. I measured in at 6ft2.5 for classic physique. I was the tallest cat there out of at least 500 competitors, I was number 497. I think there may have been 1000 competitors. This is classic physique D 6ft and over. Im on far right

Nice man, I saw your pics on ********. Props bro..

Your ALT is def high and always directly related actual hepatic tissue.. If you take 3 days off from training it should come down within range if you do not have any true liver damage.

I prefer my Alk Phos and GGT levels for liver function over AST/ALT.

I'm like you, I wouldn't be happy with my BUN that high, I typically like to see my BUN around 14-17 and my creatinine no higher than 1.06-1.1.

Trust me, you do not need as high of a protein intake as you think..

[JohnSmeton]

Nice man, I saw your pics on ********. Props bro..

Your ALT is def high and always directly related actual hepatic tissue.. If you take 3 days off from training it should come down within range if you do not have any true liver damage.

I prefer my Alk Phos and GGT levels for liver function over AST/ALT.

I'm like you, I wouldn't be happy with my BUN that high, I typically like to see my BUN around 14-17 and my creatinine no higher than 1.06-1.1.

Trust me, you do not need as high of a protein intake as you think..

Props to you 5ft1 , 190 lbs, with abs. talking about making the most out of your genetics

I had a ggt six months ago , it was 10, which is very low and great. the same doctor wants to run ast alt and another ggt again. He just isn't convinced intense training causes liver enzymes to raise. I've taken in 250 grams everyday for fifteen years , at one time 400 grams, right now like 350 grams. On top of that bcaa's . Its always worked for me, and I've never had any issues, except this current time. During my lessened intensity phases, and trt dose, may have to lower protein. Ive so used to getting in 1.5 grams give or take everyday, its difficult not to bc of the habit I've built from fifteen years ago. I'm definitely conscious of kidney function and of course all my labs

Thank you

[XCriticalBenchX]

Props to you 5ft1 , 190 lbs, with abs. talking about making the most out of your genetics

I had a ggt six months ago , it was 10, which is very low and great. the same doctor wants to run ast alt and another ggt again. He just isn't convinced intense training causes liver enzymes to raise. I've taken in 250 grams everyday for fifteen years , at one time 400 grams, right now like 350 grams. On top of that bcaa's . Its always worked for me, and I've never had any issues, except this current time. During my lessened intensity phases, and trt dose, may have to lower protein. Ive so used to getting in 1.5 grams give or take everyday, its difficult not to bc of the habit I've built from fifteen years ago. I'm definitely conscious of kidney function and of course all my labs

Thank you

Props man, so many people pretend to care but never get labs to check.. they just talk like they do.

Mike