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  1. #331
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    Originally Posted by chalup View Post
    4 cops with guns drawn against a mentally challenged kid has no bettter ending than him being dead? I give you guys all the rights but damn where is that line at? Does a cop have to rape someone before he is caught?
    It certainly could have had a better ending. His father could have turned himself in rather than being a piece of chit human.

    You seem to forget that cops don't have the luxury of hindsight when they show up to a scene and are faced with a situation. There's no way for them to know who the guy with the pipe is or what his intentions are or his mental state or any of that. The ONLY information they have is: grown man with a metal pipe is advancing towards them despite commands to put it down and their own weapons drawn and pointed at him. The taser was deployed and didn't work when one of the prongs missed. They did what they felt was necessary in the situation. It sucks, but it is what it is.

    It also helps when you don't skew the facts of the situation:

    There were 2 cops. Not 4.
    The article says he's deaf, not mentally challenged. I've seen others say he's developmentally challenged in terms of communication, but that doesn't necessarily mean mentally challenged either.
    The "kid" was 35 years old.


    I'm really not sure what your intent is, but your posts come across heavily as though you WANT to find cops doing something wrong.
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  2. #332
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    You know its not the cops that decide that right? Its the brass and city/county human resources.

    You want higher standards and longer training in a job that is already seeing it lowest number of applicants in decades? Good luck with that. An easier thing would be to stop making heros out of career criminals... maybe tell people to stop shooting/fighting cops and you wont need more pay/longer training.

    Shocker i know
    That's why I said petition. Isn't "brass" another term for Commissioner, Mayor, Governor, Police Chief, etc?

    So, rather than change the process, procedure, and culture of Police Officers, you want to blame Hollywood? "Good luck with that." Unless you're talking about the Pants down, please loot protestors. At which point you'll have to roust the yellow journalism of our generation.

    An oppressive police force has been an issue for decades, it didn't build hype with BLM, it has been an issue long before them. Positions of authority attract people obsessed with power. Are all police offers bad? No. Are a majority of them bad? I wouldn't bet on that, either. However, there is some sort of fraternity mindset that requires you to conform and fit in, often ignoring the members of the outfit that abuse their power, people, and the law. Everyone is aware of it yet most ignore it, too.

    There was a change within my lifetime, I think, where the term changed from "Peace Officer" to "Law Enforcement". You can interpret that how you want, but I interpret it as another long arm of the government taking it's share of my money. They have a tool in every city, town, and village to enslave, oppress, confiscate, and bleed dry anyone that gets caught. You were talking about crime on the rise in another thread. Do you genuinely believe that? Do you believe that people who buy and use drugs should be ripped from their home and thrown in a cell, being denied their rights for the rest of the lives upon release?

    "America does not need more prisons, but fewer laws" if I may butcher a quote.

    Better trained, better equipped police officers would do a great deal of good for a lot of people. Citizens, cities, and local governments.

    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    This isn't RoboCop, we can't go on strike.
    Never seen it, but that's unfortunate.

    Originally Posted by |ceman View Post
    This is very important. Just like in any job there are some very good at what they do and some that are lousy. Some that are compassionate and patient while others are impatient bullies. A complicating factor is the police unions and groups as well as a strong sense of brotherhood that can sometimes protect bad cops from censure.

    There should be a high standard for those who will mete out deadly force in the community AND they should be paid a lot more for putting their lives on the line to make us safer.
    Completely agree 100%.
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  3. #333
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  4. #334
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    That's why I said petition. Isn't "brass" another term for Commissioner, Mayor, Governor, Police Chief, etc?

    So, rather than change the process, procedure, and culture of Police Officers, you want to blame Hollywood? "Good luck with that." Unless you're talking about the Pants down, please loot protestors. At which point you'll have to roust the yellow journalism of our generation.

    An oppressive police force has been an issue for decades, it didn't build hype with BLM, it has been an issue long before them. Positions of authority attract people obsessed with power. Are all police offers bad? No. Are a majority of them bad? I wouldn't bet on that, either. However, there is some sort of fraternity mindset that requires you to conform and fit in, often ignoring the members of the outfit that abuse their power, people, and the law. Everyone is aware of it yet most ignore it, too.

    There was a change within my lifetime, I think, where the term changed from "Peace Officer" to "Law Enforcement". You can interpret that how you want, but I interpret it as another long arm of the government taking it's share of my money. They have a tool in every city, town, and village to enslave, oppress, confiscate, and bleed dry anyone that gets caught. You were talking about crime on the rise in another thread. Do you genuinely believe that? Do you believe that people who buy and use drugs should be ripped from their home and thrown in a cell, being denied their rights for the rest of the lives upon release?

    "America does not need more prisons, but fewer laws" if I may butcher a quote.

    Better trained, better equipped police officers would do a great deal of good for a lot of people. Citizens, cities, and local governments.



    Never seen it, but that's unfortunate.



    Completely agree 100%.
    Still trying to say cops are the bad guys huh? Cops have always been law enforcement, supreme court has even ruled cops have no duty to protect the citizens and are strictly here to enforce the laws. The "protect and serve" you guys love to preach is a MOTTO from a contest the LAPD had in the 70s to come up with a new slogan.

    You want cops to stop "oppressing" criminals tell them to stop breaking the law and fighting/shooting/killing the police.
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  5. #335
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    Still trying to say cops are the bad guys huh? Cops have always been law enforcement, supreme court has even ruled cops have no duty to protect the citizens and are strictly here to enforce the laws. The "protect and serve" you guys love to preach is a MOTTO from a contest the LAPD had in the 70s to come up with a new slogan.

    You want cops to stop "oppressing" criminals tell them to stop breaking the law and fighting/shooting/killing the police.
    You ignored everything I said and attempted to label me a liberal?

    There are plenty of people arrested that didn't commit any crimes. There are people convicted of murder and rape that did not commit those crimes. People are coerced into allowing the police to search, seize, and arrest them all the time. You are foolish if you state otherwise.

    I never said cops are the bad guys. If you read my post I implied it's a fraction of them that commit unlawful activity.

    I'm sure you agree with every supreme court decision, hm?

    They have no duty to protect citizens but they have a duty to disarm them, sounds incredibly hypocritical.

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  6. #336
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    Still trying to say cops are the bad guys huh? Cops have always been law enforcement, supreme court has even ruled cops have no duty to protect the citizens and are strictly here to enforce the laws. The "protect and serve" you guys love to preach is a MOTTO from a contest the LAPD had in the 70s to come up with a new slogan.

    You want cops to stop "oppressing" criminals tell them to stop breaking the law and fighting/shooting/killing the police.
    in a lot of cases cops operate very similar to gangs/mobs/organized crime, and even sometimes working with them, very corrupt. to say otherwise is to be oblivious and making excuses or justifying the behavior to spin it.

    especially in larger cities. thats sad. the "us vs them" thing is a huge problem in the police forces across america.

    i think the issue originated with cops vs black's in the 1920's-1980's, and now obviously you still have some of that issue with the "war on drugs", but cops spread the "us vs them" mentality to everyone now.

    some ways to cut that is with hiring more people who want positive community relations instead of pay/bennies and cracking skulls and dont really give a fuack. remove the militarization theme many departments have, and force employees to live in their communities they serve. a lot of those fly by night cops are the trouble makers.
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  7. #337
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    in a lot of cases cops operate very similar to gangs/mobs/organized crime, and even sometimes working with them, very corrupt. to say otherwise is to be oblivious and making excuses or justifying the behavior to spin it.

    especially in larger cities. thats sad. the "us vs them" thing is a huge problem in the police forces across america.

    i think the issue originated with cops vs black's in the 1920's-1980's, and now obviously you still have some of that issue with the "war on drugs", but cops spread the "us vs them" mentality to everyone now.

    some ways to cut that is with hiring more people who want positive community relations instead of pay/bennies and cracking skulls and dont really give a fuack. remove the militarization theme many departments have, and force employees to live in their communities they serve. a lot of those fly by night cops are the trouble makers.
    The us vs them doesnt come from the cops bro
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  8. #338
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    in a lot of cases cops operate very similar to gangs/mobs/organized crime, and even sometimes working with them, very corrupt. to say otherwise is to be oblivious and making excuses or justifying the behavior to spin it.

    especially in larger cities. thats sad. the "us vs them" thing is a huge problem in the police forces across america.

    i think the issue originated with cops vs black's in the 1920's-1980's, and now obviously you still have some of that issue with the "war on drugs", but cops spread the "us vs them" mentality to everyone now.

    some ways to cut that is with hiring more people who want positive community relations instead of pay/bennies and cracking skulls and dont really give a fuack. remove the militarization theme many departments have, and force employees to live in their communities they serve. a lot of those fly by night cops are the trouble makers.
    Oh yes, I forgot, you want us to act like big brother to the kids of single mothers, who have multiple children by different fathers...and how are you going to force officers to live in the ghetto?

    I'm truly thankful that people like you aren't in charge of anything.
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  9. #339
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    That's why I said petition. Isn't "brass" another term for Commissioner, Mayor, Governor, Police Chief, etc?

    So, rather than change the process, procedure, and culture of Police Officers, you want to blame Hollywood? "Good luck with that." Unless you're talking about the Pants down, please loot protestors. At which point you'll have to roust the yellow journalism of our generation.

    An oppressive police force has been an issue for decades, it didn't build hype with BLM, it has been an issue long before them. Positions of authority attract people obsessed with power. Are all police offers bad? No. Are a majority of them bad? I wouldn't bet on that, either. However, there is some sort of fraternity mindset that requires you to conform and fit in, often ignoring the members of the outfit that abuse their power, people, and the law. Everyone is aware of it yet most ignore it, too.

    There was a change within my lifetime, I think, where the term changed from "Peace Officer" to "Law Enforcement". You can interpret that how you want, but I interpret it as another long arm of the government taking it's share of my money. They have a tool in every city, town, and village to enslave, oppress, confiscate, and bleed dry anyone that gets caught. You were talking about crime on the rise in another thread. Do you genuinely believe that? Do you believe that people who buy and use drugs should be ripped from their home and thrown in a cell, being denied their rights for the rest of the lives upon release?

    "America does not need more prisons, but fewer laws" if I may butcher a quote.

    Better trained, better equipped police officers would do a great deal of good for a lot of people. Citizens, cities, and local governments.



    Never seen it, but that's unfortunate.



    Completely agree 100%.
    What do you think would happen in ghettos, or high crime areas, if we went on strike? It would be like "The Purge," except worse.
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  10. #340
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    What do you think would happen in ghettos, or high crime areas, if we went on strike? It would be like "The Purge," except worse.
    Who cares? You don't have a constitutional duty to protect anyone. Let them sort it out. If it got bad enough, no one would do business there. I doubt they would be equipped to forage on their own. No one else would welcome them, as citizens in suburbans or middle class areas would fortify. They would clean up or die out. Win/Win either way.

    Or, better, just send the military in and slaughter everyone. Why not? It's not like we have respected rights in this country anyway.
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    The us vs them doesnt come from the cops bro
    it originally started in the civil rights era when cops didnt want black to have chit, and once the blacks got rights, it spread the police's "us vs them" mentality to the everyone, not just blacks. and then the militarization followed.

    obviously a lot of blacks today dont like the cops so i agree with you on that part. but the picture is bigger than that.

    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Oh yes, I forgot, you want us to act like big brother to the kids of single mothers, who have multiple children by different fathers...and how are you going to force officers to live in the ghetto?

    I'm truly thankful that people like you aren't in charge of anything.
    its not forcing anyone to live anywhere, if you want the job and your a resident, great. if you want the job badly but you live far away, you can also move in and become a resident in the city/town. it improves community relations and makes the cops invest in their own town. like i said, the fly by night cops seem to have higher % of bad apples.

    maybe in the future i might run for board of trustee or something, and eventually be top brass or mayor. a lot of people are very supportive of people who care about their communities. instead of being a negative downer who accepts the status quo and wants to keep it business as usual like you bros.

    bottom line, people want legit common sense logical government for the residents.
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    it originally started in the civil rights era when cops didnt want black to have chit, and once the blacks got rights, it spread the police's "us vs them" mentality to the everyone, not just blacks. and then the militarization followed.

    obviously a lot of blacks today dont like the cops so i agree with you on that part. but the picture is bigger than that.



    its not forcing anyone to live anywhere, if you want the job and your a resident, great. if you want the job badly but you live far away, you can also move in and become a resident in the city/town. it improves community relations and makes the cops invest in their own town. like i said, the fly by night cops seem to have higher % of bad apples.

    maybe in the future i might run for board of trustee or something. a lot of people are very supportive of people who care about their communities. instead of being a negative downer who accepts the status quo and wants to keep it business as usual like you bros.

    bottom line, people want legit common sense logical government for the residents.
    So ghettos and high crime areas won't have a police department, because none of them will live there.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    So ghettos and high crime areas won't have a police department, because none of them will live there.
    trust me, ive worked logistics and city hiring. their is a plethora of good people who are willing to move on their own dime into any town to become a positive role model police officer and become a resident. the strawman argument is ridiculous. and also employing from preexisting residents who meet standards.

    also most ghettos are small sections of large cities. if you live in city limits, you can get the job. im not saying neighborhood need the neighborhood resident. just live in the area.
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    trust me, ive worked logistics and city hiring. their is a plethora of good people who are willing to move on their own dime into any town to become a positive role model police officer and become a resident. the strawman argument is ridiculous. and also employing from preexisting residents who meet standards.
    Lmfao, sure

    Its not even worth debating with you. Your delusions are far and wide...
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    Who cares? You don't have a constitutional duty to protect anyone. Let them sort it out. If it got bad enough, no one would do business there. I doubt they would be equipped to forage on their own. No one else would welcome them, as citizens in suburbans or middle class areas would fortify. They would clean up or die out. Win/Win either way.

    Or, better, just send the military in and slaughter everyone. Why not? It's not like we have respected rights in this country anyway.
    Yeah, I'm sure that will look great on the morning news...
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    Lmfao, sure

    Its not even worth debating with you. Your delusions are far and wide...
    Also, how are cops going to patrol extremely wealthy neighborhoods? I'm talking neighborhoods full of millionaires/billionaires?
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    Originally Posted by dhawkeye1980 View Post
    Lmfao, sure

    Its not even worth debating with you. Your delusions are far and wide...
    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Also, how are cops going to patrol extremely wealthy neighborhoods? I'm talking neighborhoods full of millionaires/billionaires?
    a lot of localities already have those rules... its nothing new. also read what i wrote. i didnt say you gotta be from the exact neighborhood, just the same city. most cities have billionaires in one area, and sec 8 poverty gangs in another neighborhood, and people in the middle.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure that will look great on the morning news...
    See above. **** them too

    Just sayin', man. You aren't mechanics, call centers, etc. Burn out for officers can lead to neglect and loss of life. Despite what the dude above said about not having to protect citizens, I think some officers do, and I know some get jaded and pissy about society. There needs to be safeguards in place that prevent that from happening. More vacation time, higher salaries, better environments, etc. Before the sputtering of "WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT!??!?!11!", **** it, I will. I'm not a millionaire (yet), but I'd be willing to contribute more to taxes or funding to make this happen. A lot of people that respect the boys in blue and value security over privacy would to, I bet. *


    * When I say this, I'm not talking about civil forfeiture or infringing on my rights, but more activity in neighborhoods would be sacrificing a bit of privacy.
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    See above. **** them too

    Just sayin', man. You aren't mechanics, call centers, etc. Burn out for officers can lead to neglect and loss of life. Despite what the dude above said about not having to protect citizens, I think some officers do, and I know some get jaded and pissy about society. There needs to be safeguards in place that prevent that from happening. More vacation time, higher salaries, better environments, etc. Before the sputtering of "WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT!??!?!11!", **** it, I will. I'm not a millionaire (yet), but I'd be willing to contribute more to taxes or funding to make this happen. A lot of people that respect the boys and blue and value security over privacy would to, I bet.
    more pay is not needed. for what the job entails they get paid enough, plus bennies. if your not cut out for it, or become not fit for the job as in piss attitude and negative relations, quit or get fired.
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    See above. **** them too

    Just sayin', man. You aren't mechanics, call centers, etc. Burn out for officers can lead to neglect and loss of life. Despite what the dude above said about not having to protect citizens, I think some officers do, and I know some get jaded and pissy about society. There needs to be safeguards in place that prevent that from happening. More vacation time, higher salaries, better environments, etc. Before the sputtering of "WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT!??!?!11!", **** it, I will. I'm not a millionaire (yet), but I'd be willing to contribute more to taxes or funding to make this happen. A lot of people that respect the boys and blue and value security over privacy would to, I bet. *


    * When I say this, I'm not talking about civil forfeiture or infringing on my rights, but more activity in neighborhoods would be sacrificing a bit of privacy.
    I get plenty of vacation time, and if you save your time in the books, you can take extra days off here and there to prevent burnout. Plus, with the numerous opportunities for overtime, we don't need a higher salary.
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    a lot of localities already have those rules... its nothing new. also read what i wrote. i didnt say you gotta be from the exact neighborhood, just the same city. most cities have billionaires in one area, and sec 8 poverty gangs in another neighborhood, and people in the middle.
    Majority of us have to live in the "city" we work in, not the neighborhood.
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    FYI, if you disagree with the shooting in this topic, you get negged by mods. I got bozz'ed.
    He says hi
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    Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    He says hi
    exactly what i was talking about, people who cant discuss cuz they know their wrong, automatically go for the neg points.
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    You ignored everything I said and attempted to label me a liberal?

    There are plenty of people arrested that didn't commit any crimes. There are people convicted of murder and rape that did not commit those crimes. People are coerced into allowing the police to search, seize, and arrest them all the time. You are foolish if you state otherwise.

    I never said cops are the bad guys. If you read my post I implied it's a fraction of them that commit unlawful activity.

    I'm sure you agree with every supreme court decision, hm?

    They have no duty to protect citizens but they have a duty to disarm them, sounds incredibly hypocritical.

    FEAR AND OBEY
    You do realize what the alternative is, correct?

    We live with chitty aspects of our current system because the alternative is much worse.

    you sound like one of these internet lawyers that spouts off about not having to provide police with your license if you get pulled over and then some dumba** actually believes it and ends up having a very bad day when they do get pulled over.

    Compliance is not an affront to your rights - it's one of the things that, collectively, allows for your rights.
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    Originally Posted by BrahPlease View Post
    exactly what i was talking about, people who cant discuss cuz they know their wrong, automatically go for the neg points.
    Why discuss something with someone who will never look at both sides. I have seen you post the same thing over and over again about police. It gets kinda boring but watching you cry over some stupid green squares makes me laugh.
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    Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    Why discuss something with someone who will never look at both sides. I have seen you post the same thing over and over again about police. It gets kinda boring but watching you cry over some stupid green squares makes me laugh.
    Thank you for making my day better
    exactly what i mean, more strawman, name calling, and negging. great... some how that makes you right? k den

    im unbiased and look at things logically from both sides and also from a devils advocate side. to truly see things as objective as i can. most bros on here are hung up on one side its ridiculous.
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    You do realize what the alternative is, correct?

    We live with chitty aspects of our current system because the alternative is much worse.

    you sound like one of these internet lawyers that spouts off about not having to provide police with your license if you get pulled over and then some dumba** actually believes it and ends up having a very bad day when they do get pulled over.

    Compliance is not an affront to your rights - it's one of the things that, collectively, allows for your rights.
    So there are two options, this and North Korea? I don't believe that for a second.

    I've never said such things. In fact, I've been let go with "warnings" because I've been very respectful to police officers. I see no need to be a prick, especially when they're just doing what they've been instructed to do (make money for their district).

    My problem lies with blind obedience and refusing to acknowledge a problem, when there clearly is a problem.

    Where do you draw the line? Checkpoints, mandatory government partitions in every computer, displaying your "papers" at every intersection?

    Nice try in attempting to call me out, though. Aside from one incident a long, long time ago, I've never had any issue with the police. Only when I go to the internet looking for things to piss me off, much like the rest of this forum.
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    So there are two options, this and North Korea? I don't believe that for a second.

    I've never said such things. In fact, I've been let go with "warnings" because I've been very respectful to police officers. I see no need to be a prick, especially when they're just doing what they've been instructed to do (make money for their district).

    My problem lies with blind obedience and refusing to acknowledge a problem, when there clearly is a problem.

    Where do you draw the line? Checkpoints, mandatory government partitions in every computer, displaying your "papers" at every intersection?

    Nice try in attempting to call me out, though. Aside from one incident a long, long time ago, I've never had any issue with the police. Only when I go to the internet looking for things to piss me off, much like the rest of this forum.

    no but the only systems that would be "better" would include a reduction of our rights as a people. You lose rights moving in either direction.
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    no but the only systems that would be "better" would include a reduction of our rights as a people. You lose rights moving in either direction.
    I don't know, man. I think there has to be a third, fourth, and fifth option. You get caught by the wrong patrolman on the wrong day, and it's the highest kind of felony to defend yourself. There has to be higher standards if that's the case.
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