Why don't some people just come out and say they are racist or whatever?

[pump6]

Do you see how african american is justifiable then?

Seeing as you believe that alt-right (white nationalism, and white supremacy) is inevitable in a white majority country?

That would be pretty dangerous for non-whites right?

Justified in what? The teachers, cops, etc. all come from different backgrounds in the US.. they aren't only White, I was just joking. Hispanics will eventually become the new majority and you're still talking about slavery and chit lol. Identity politics is inevitable because that's what happens in multicultural countries. Claiming that non-Whites are in danger if Whites do what everyone else is doing is crazy.

[BetaAsPhuck]

If you want civic nationalism to work, then one thing you'd have to do is phase out labels like African-American and Asian-American. These people have to simply be American, because nationality is one of the big things that groups can bond over, in addition to race and religion. The continued separation of identity promotes actual separation - both social and physical.

I agree.

And another alternative is having a multifaceted identity, with a civic nationalist identity at the core. (Which is basically what Amartya Sen advocates.)

However, I do think that paradoxically, acknowledging when research uncovers biases is necessary to create a civic nationalist or post-racial society. When people are complaining about having particular experiences, and research backs up that it is a possible systemic issue, pretending that everyone who complains is 'whining' or a lying (eg. the rhetoric of the right towards identity politics in general) IMO will just lead to resentment, humiliation, and anger.

And I say exactly the same to non-whites who complain about white people 'whining' about their experiences of having their voices marginalized in issues of race. IMO, that is partly what fuels some white people to become alt-right. (This group will listen to me.)

(That post was aimed at the poster, for a reason.)

[BetaAsPhuck]

Justified in what? The teachers, cops, etc. all come from different backgrounds in the US.. they aren't only White,

The majority are white.

Hispanics will eventually become the new majority and you're still talking about slavery and chit lol.

That was not the point, the point was there is research indicating possible systemic biases against african-americans and boys. (By systemic I don't mean a conspiracy).

Identity politics is inevitable because that's what happens in multicultural countries. Claiming that non-Whites are in danger if Whites do what everyone else is doing is crazy.

The majority can easily overpower the minority.

And (in Europe at least) the far-right (and the alt-right is a far right movement) are well known for violence.

In the UK where I live, literally up until the mid 90s there was a serious problem with white nationalist/supermacist groups committing acts of violence against random people.

(Maajid Nawaz is a brown muslim anti-extremist activist, and said that one of the experiences that helped radicalized him as a young muslim, was a stabbing. He was with a white friend, and a neo-nazis group jumped them, and made him watch as they stabbed his friend for being a 'race traitor'.)

Non-white males a generation above me, who grew up in major cities, tell stories of how they would often get white racists jumping them.

(My earliest memory is of when I was living in London. And a of Skinhead walked up to my mother and began shouting abuse in her face, as she held my hand.)

Then the murder of a black male called Stephen Lawrence happend in 1993, and (props to them) the government came down hard on violence far-right groups.

So... Based on what I know of Europe (similar things have happened, and do happen throughout Europe), I would be worried if a white majority became alt-right, and I was a non-white person in the US.

Unless... White far-right groups aren't as prone to violence historically as the ones in Europe.

[ODBM]

I agree.

And another alternative is having a multifaceted identity, with a civic nationalist identity at the core. (Which is basically what Amartya Sen advocates.)

However, I do think that paradoxically, acknowledging when research uncovers biases is necessary to create a civic nationalist or post-racial society. When people are complaining about having particular experiences, and research backs up that it is a possible systemic issue, pretending that everyone who complains is 'whining' or a lying (eg. the rhetoric of the right towards identity politics in general) IMO will just lead to resentment, humiliation, and anger.

And I say exactly the same to non-whites who complain about white people 'whining' about their experiences of having their voices marginalized in issues of race. IMO, that is partly what fuels some white people to become alt-right. (This group will listen to me.)

(That post was aimed at the poster, for a reason.)

Our current direction is not conducive to a post-racial society, by the way. Can you identify the problems as easily as I can?

[scheal]

I don't get why people have to say, "I'm not racist! My best friend is black! But these black people...."

No harm in straight up admitting you are racist.

Just come out and say it, "I don't like Mexicans and black people and dat beebeec taking our women, our jobs, our way of living, etc.."

"I don't like their language, I don't like their skin color, blahblahblah."



I honestly think if people just straight up said that, we can actually get somewhere and move on and away with this racism garbage.

I'm shocked just like you. Why Hilary and all the other democrats did not just come out and say "WE are racist and we don't care" during the election campaign amazes me!!!!

[BetaAsPhuck]

Can you identify the problems as easily as I can?

I don't understand this question.

[pump6]

The majority are white.



That was not the point, the point was there is research indicating possible systemic biases against african-americans and boys. (By systemic I don't mean a conspiracy).



The majority can easily overpower the minority.

And (in Europe at least) the far-right (and the alt-right is a far right movement) are well known for violence.

In the UK where I live, literally up until the mid 90s there was a serious problem with white nationalist/supermacist groups committing acts of violence against random people.

(Maajid Nawaz is a brown muslim anti-extremist activist, and said that one of the experiences that helped radicalized him as a young muslim, was a stabbing. He was with a white friend, and a neo-nazis group jumped them, and made him watch as they stabbed his friend for being a 'race traitor'.)

Non-white males a generation above me, who grew up in major cities, tell stories of how they would often get white racists jumping them.

(My earliest memory is of when I was living in London. And a of Skinhead walked up to my mother and began shouting abuse in her face, as she held my hand.)

Then the murder of a black male called Stephen Lawrence happend in 1993, and (props to them) the government came down hard on violence far-right groups.

So... Based on what I know of Europe (similar things have happened, and do happen throughout Europe), I would be worried if a white majority became alt-right, and I was a non-white person in the US.

Unless... White far-right groups aren't as prone to violence historically as the ones in Europe.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. Don't support multiculturalism, I guess. Diversity + proximity = conflict. But, identity groups are inevitable like I said. You're pointing your grievances at the wrong group of people.

[BetaAsPhuck]

Well, I don't know what to tell you.

OK.

You're pointing your grievances at the wrong group of people.

Who do you think I'm pointing my grievance towards?

And (if I was) what would be the right group?

[ODBM]

I don't understand this question.

I'm asking if you can identify the obstacles to post-racialism in this country, and understand why they are obstacles. One example is the narrative spun both by representatives and mainstream media that the reason people want to deport illegals is because they are non-white. Instead of this, all legal US citizens should be more or less united on the point that people who are in this country illegally need to be removed. An ethnically diverse group of people held together by love for their shared nation must respect the laws of that nation.

[BetaAsPhuck]

I'm asking if you can identify the obstacles to post-racialism in this country, and understand why they are obstacles. One example is the narrative spun both by representatives and mainstream media that the reason people want to deport illegals is because they are non-white. Instead of this, all legal US citizens should be more or less united on the point that people who are in this country illegally need to be removed.

I don't live in the US.

And one thing I know is that in the UK, very few (liberal or far left) accuses anyone against illegal immigration to the UK as being racist.

People do get accused of it when they are against legal mass migration. But being against illegal immigration (allowing unvetted or unmonitored people into your country) isn't seen as an indication of racism.

I will say though, that some of the rhetoric from US liberals has led to me hearing a 15 year old I know say 'Trump's racist for wanting to build a wall'. Which was followed by myself and my uncle promptly asking him why it's racist to try to stop people from illegally entering the country? He didn't know how to respond.

The attitude towards people who are against illegal immigration baffles me to be honest.

An ethnically diverse group of people held together by love for their shared nation must respect the laws of that nation.

I agree.

[pump6]

OK.



Who do you think I'm pointing my grievance towards?

And (if I was) what would be the right group?

Your post was directed at the misc alt-right.

[BetaAsPhuck]

Your post was directed at the misc alt-right.

I'm not expecting it to change their minds, and I wasn't hoping they would do something about it, so I wasn't 'pointing a grievance' at anyone.

I just wanted to point out to people the alt-rights lack of conscientiousness regarding research into systemic race issues.

[ODBM]

I'm not expecting it to change their minds, and I wasn't hoping they would do something about it, so I wasn't 'pointing a grievance' at anyone.

I just wanted to point out to people the alt-rights lack of conscientiousness regarding research into systemic race issues.

Do you think it's okay for Japanese folks to want to live amongst people who are ethnically similar to themselves? Also, is it immoral for monoethnic countries to exist?

[Junsuiakai]

Location: Poland, 99% white

In the US, young black males are 3% of the population. They commit ~60% of the US' murders. Hispanics commit the next 20%.

If you exclude black men and hispanic men, the US' violence crime rates are the same as Western Europe's violence crime rates, despite our second amendment.

However, if you say any of what I just said in public, you're a "nazi". Irony: I'm mixed race and the nazis would have hated me. Bigger irony: the prison camps, in that era, for my race would have been run by FDR.

I lived 26 years in Florida, 4 years in UK and 2 years in Poland.

I'm a US citizen.

Other than that I agree with what you are saying, but statistics might be off a bit. I thought they are around 15%.

Also Poland says out right, they don't want Muslims, not because they are racist, but because they see what has happened to the rest of Europe.

[BetaAsPhuck]

Do you think it's okay for Japanese folks to want to live amongst people who are ethnically similar to themselves?

Yes.

I don't support discrimination or abuse against ethnic minorities though, which was the point I have been making in this thread. So, I'm not sure why you are asking this question.

Also, is it immoral for monoethnic countries to exist?

Not in and of itself.

Depends on how that is achieved or maintained.

Again, why are you asking me this?

[ODBM]

Again, why are you asking me this?

Because I want to know if you apply the same standards to other groups of people. After all, that is a large part of what Spencer's portion of the alt-right wants: a monoethnic society for themselves.

[BetaAsPhuck]

Because I want to know if you apply the same standards to other groups of people. After all, that is a large part of what Spencer's portion of the alt-right wants: a monoethnic society for themselves.

Like I said, the means is important to me.

I don't think Richard Spencer's desired means of preserving ethnic heritage is benign, seeing as he partners with neo-nazis and the KKK (that was literally the intention of the unite the right rally. To unify white nationalists and white supremacists).

Means I have no problem with...

Strict immigration, and (when people are granted citizenship policies) to ensure ethnic ghettos don't form, and promoting appreciation for national and ethnic heritage.

(IME no racism is needed if you teach people to value national and ethnic heritage. And as a side effect conscientious people tend to want to start families with people who share their core values. And if you value your national and ethinic heritage, then - without hating other ethnicities or nations - you will gravitate towards people who value the same as you.

Also even people of non-native ethnicities will value the national heritage, because it's promoted. And will then want it preserved.

IMO interracial and interethnic dating neither needs to be glorified or shamed.)

Means I am against... (the kind of thing advocated by Neo-nazis, KKK, and some white nationalists)

Mass deportation of legal citizens who aren't the preferred ethnicity. Campaigns of abuse or violence to pressure ethnic minorities out of the country. Shaming, ostracization, or violence against people who date interracially or interethnically.

[fezjones]

no. because there is a blatant double standard. your basic democrat can have similar prejudices as maybe a basic white republican, but they are exempt from admitting anything that can be spun as racism. until these labels are fair game to be stuck to anyone, no one is gonna play by an SJWs creepy little game.

[adimare]

In the US, young black males are 3% of the population. They commit ~60% of the US' murders. Hispanics commit the next 20%.

If you exclude black men and hispanic men, the US' violence crime rates are the same as Western Europe's violence crime rates, despite our second amendment.

However, if you say any of what I just said in public, you're a "nazi".

Nah. Facts are facts. Yes there's a loud minority who might consider you a racist for just stating those facts, but they're idiots.

A racist is someone who makes dumb assumptions based on those facts. So they'll judge an individual based on the average behavior of his ethnicity (this guy's hispanic therefore it's safe to assume he's a criminal, better hire the white guy), or they'll assume there's a causal relationship between ethnicity and behavior where none has been proven (on average, hispanics in the US commit more crime than whites, therefore we can assume there's something in their genetics that makes them more prone to crime). Basically they just suck at analytical thinking, which is why racists aren't usually the smartest people in the room.

[pump6]

[trailwarrior]

Starting with Donald Trump!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wN4ZjH9TrE&t=3m48s

[ODBM]

Means I am against... (the kind of thing advocated by Neo-nazis, KKK, and some white nationalists)

Let's not pretend that the KKK was there in any capacity. The only KKK presence I've seen over the last few years were the two black guys who went undercover at a Trump rally in KKK robes.

That said, what sort of things do you think national socialists and white nationalists believe in? What makes them different from Spencer's flavor of alt-right?

[SillieBazzillie]

Let's not pretend that the KKK was there in any capacity. The only KKK presence I've seen over the last few years were the two black guys who went undercover at a Trump rally in KKK robes.

That said, what sort of things do you think national socialists and white nationalists believe in? What makes them different from Spencer's flavor of alt-right?

Did you not see the scum marching the night before and that saturday in Virginia? Do you agree with the hate they were chanting?

[ODBM]

Did you not see the scum marching the night before and that saturday in Virginia? Do you agree with the hate they were chanting?

By scum do you mean KKK in white robes? If so, then no, I did not see those pics/vids. Please share them.


Your definition of hate is probably very different from mine. You can ask me about a specific belief or position, and I will tell you whether or not I share it or support it.

[SillieBazzillie]

By scum do you mean KKK in white robes? If so, then no, I did not see those pics/vids. Please share them.


Your definition of hate is probably very different from mine. You can ask me about a specific belief or position, and I will tell you whether or not I share it or support it.

By scum I mean the white supremacist marching on full display the night before and that Saturday. All scum. You can google their hate filled chants as easily as I can.

And I laugh at your pathetic negs by the way.

[ODBM]

By scum I mean the white supremacist marching on full display the night before and that Saturday. All scum. You can google their hate filled chants as easily as I can.

And I laugh at your pathetic negs by the way.

I'm waiting for you to ask me about a specific hateful position so that I can tell you whether or not I support it. Or are you just wanting to go back and forth where you call me a Nazi and I call you a cuck? Because I'm bored with that stuff.

[SillieBazzillie]

I'm waiting for you to ask me about a specific hateful position so that I can tell you whether or not I support it. Or are you just wanting to go back and forth where you call me a Nazi and I call you a cuck? Because I'm bored with that stuff.

So to you the opposite of nazi is cuck? Not surprised coming from a negging *******.

[ODBM]

So to you the opposite of nazi is cuck? Not surprised coming from a negging *******.

Worry not. I can tell you from experience that if you just engage with an open and honest discussion with me, the greens will pour into your CP even from those who disagree with you.

I'm going to ask you a third time. What specific hateful positions held by these people do you want to ask me about my support (or lack thereof) for?

[SillieBazzillie]

Worry not. I can tell you from experience that if you just engage with an open and honest discussion with me, the greens will pour into your CP even from those who disagree with you.

I'm going to ask you a third time. What specific hateful positions held by these people do you want to ask me about my support (or lack thereof) for?

I don't care to inquire about your feelings about these racist. You posed the question but I really don't GAF. I don't care if you're racist or if you're not. This place has taught me that opinions are virtually impossible to change no matter the facts.

I do find it humorous that grown men feel the need to "neg" each other over perceived differences in opinion. But whatever, like you noted, most neg me, some rep me. I find anyone who would take the time to "neg" someone else simply pathetic. Just my opinion of course.

[ODBM]

Do you agree with the hate they were chanting?

I don't care to inquire about your feelings about these racist.

Well, that's weird.


I didn't know my poverty neg would strike such a sensitive nerve, but if you just have an honest conversation with me then I promise to rep you later. You have my word as a schons.