Programs that don't require heavy lifting

[JJsevens]

So I've been on Fierce 5(Intermediate/Advanced 5 Day Lower/Upper) for 6 months now and wow has it made a difference. However I reached point where i may need to stop the program all together or at least hoping to find some adjustments to stay on because it really has made the difference in terms of size and strength for me in just this short time.

I'm 41 and started lifting a little over 2 years now and my joints are starting to give up on me, specifically my shoulders. It's come to a point where i don't think i can bench anymore. I started developing shoulder pain over the last little while so had it checked out (Xray/Ultrasound) and they determined it's osteoporosis of the shoulder joints, something that doesn't get better; progressively worse, especially if i continue with exercises that aggravate the area. So flat bench, incline and decline all hurt my shoulders, especially with heavy weight so have to stop. OHP press is another, it's not as bad but still get pain in the area with that motion.

So that being said if i can't find substitutions within that program i may have to stop and find something else that doesn't require so much weight, which is where it's gotten to on F5, so need to lighten things up and move to a higher rep type routine. All other exercises are fine, just the shoulders that are being affected.

Any ideas?

[Plateauplower]

So I've been on Fierce 5(Intermediate/Advanced 5 Day Lower/Upper) for 6 months now and wow has it made a difference. However I reached point where i may need to stop the program all together or at least hoping to find some adjustments to stay on because it really has made the difference in terms of size and strength for me in just this short time.

I'm 41 and started lifting a little over 2 years now and my joints are starting to give up on me, specifically my shoulders. It's come to a point where i don't think i can bench anymore. I started developing shoulder pain over the last little while so had it checked out (Xray/Ultrasound) and they determined it's osteoporosis of the shoulder joints, something that doesn't get better; progressively worse, especially if i continue with exercises that aggravate the area. So flat bench, incline and decline all hurt my shoulders, especially with heavy weight so have to stop. OHP press is another, it's not as bad but still get pain in the area with that motion.

So that being said if i can't find substitutions within that program i may have to stop and find something else that doesn't require so much weight, which is where it's gotten to on F5, so need to lighten things up and move to a higher rep type routine. All other exercises are fine, just the shoulders that are being affected.

Any ideas?

Run F5 as normal for everything else if you enjoy the program and are getting results. Then just adapt your chest and shoulder movements to lighter weight higher rep schemes or change the exercises altogether and substitute movements that do not aggravate the issue.

I have been dealing with a shoulder issue for months and have had to do similar. Lighter weights, higher reps, substitutions like reverse grip bench and being super strict with form. Keeping shoulders packed in tight on bench and using a narrower grip than I was has helped on bench. Changing my OHP to keep my elbows in rather than allowing them to flare out has also helped. It changes the dynamic of the lift and hits more upper chest and the form change took a chunk off of my loading to dial into the new form that doesn't bother my shoulder.

Talking to a sports doc (find one that lifts if you can) and following their advice is the best bet to keep you in the game long term though...

[wesleysh21]

I gave up flat bench as well, no shame in that. I took 6 months off all of the major pushing movements and hit my rear delts hard. Did lots of face pulls, which are really good for overall shoulder health. When I came back I was able to do pressing movements again. I do incline and decline but I don't flat bench anymore. My gym has the hammerstrength machines for pressing, I enjoy those.

[CommitmentRulz]

Then just adapt your chest and shoulder movements to lighter weight higher rep schemes or change the exercises altogether and substitute movements that do not aggravate the issue.

This ^^^. At 58 I have arthritis in my hips. It took some experimenting, but I have found lifts I can do that do not bother my hips. Surprising to me as it was, I finally figured out one thing that REALLY bothered my hips was the seated ab roll/pull-down machine. I can use the same move with cables all day. The machine causes me problems. Go MUCH lighter on your bench press and experiment with bringing the bar a little more towards your belly and even up towards your head on the down motion.

[AD1985]

Just take any program and convert the rep scheme to use 10-12 reps. Be sure to buy some micro plates, I do this and the progression works just fine if you keep your ego in check.

[Garage Rat]

You may want to look into bodyweight exercise protocols.
Push ups,dips,pull ups,free squatting and lunging.
The use of TRX type straps will also give you tons of options.
Challenging but no weight added only changing angles to make movements easier or harder.
Much safer on the joints IMO.

[JJsevens]

Run F5 as normal for everything else if you enjoy the program and are getting results. Then just adapt your chest and shoulder movements to lighter weight higher rep schemes or change the exercises altogether and substitute movements that do not aggravate the issue.

I have been dealing with a shoulder issue for months and have had to do similar. Lighter weights, higher reps, substitutions like reverse grip bench and being super strict with form. Keeping shoulders packed in tight on bench and using a narrower grip than I was has helped on bench. Changing my OHP to keep my elbows in rather than allowing them to flare out has also helped. It changes the dynamic of the lift and hits more upper chest and the form change took a chunk off of my loading to dial into the new form that doesn't bother my shoulder.

Talking to a sports doc (find one that lifts if you can) and following their advice is the best bet to keep you in the game long term though...

I tried going lighter with bench/OHP exercises and even lifting the bar, or making those motions hurts. Wouldn't doing some other unconventional exercises throw off the program in general? Because bench and OHP are compound exercises, wouldn't i have to add in more exercises? For example, cables upward and downward pulls seem to be the only "chest' exercise that hurts the least, but now it's not activating shoulders/tri's as bench or OHP would, so would i add in a shoulder/tri exercise on those days?

Ya i just started going to a sports injury clinic so am hoping they can give me some advice on how to maybe strengthen the area, because the root cause to all of this was shoulder injuries when i was younger, i am now paying the price.

[JJsevens]

I gave up flat bench as well, no shame in that. I took 6 months off all of the major pushing movements and hit my rear delts hard. Did lots of face pulls, which are really good for overall shoulder health. When I came back I was able to do pressing movements again. I do incline and decline but I don't flat bench anymore. My gym has the hammerstrength machines for pressing, I enjoy those.

I may need to take some time off, which i don't want to do....2 years of hard work, and i mean hard, 5 days a week, only missing the gym on vacation or something. Now i have to stop and lose what I worked so hard to put on, sucks so bad and depressing to think.

[1Fuzzy1]

I have a similar issue with shoulders, specifically my right one and I don't bench or OHP at all anymore. Took me awhile to figure out what to do also.

If I use dumbbells, some movements don't hurt because of not being as restricted like holding the bar...I can't do much weight flat but no issue on a slight incline. You may want to experiment a little with angles and dumbbells a bit to see if you can get comfortable.

I also do a lot of different angle pushups with a weighted vest..so far I'm getting around the issue enough to maintain.

I agree, you should probably take a week off or at least deload to give your shoulders a little time to heal up but if you can do everything else, keep progressing and find a workaround for the shoulders.

Best of luck.

[Bando]

I'm 41 ..... and they determined it's osteoporosis of the shoulder joints

I'm a little skeptical of that diagnosis, been here 10 years and read at least 100k posts. 1st I've read of a 41 year male developing that condition in the shoulders.

I would get a 2nd opinion. Preferably with an actual bone/sports doc and a CT scan.

[weiss1967]

OP, I agree with Bando, get second opinion. If it is osteoporosis, it may have been undiagnosed osteogenesis imperfecta ( or whatever it is called) and it is rather systemic, genetic fluke, you may have grown up with this. Many people have it without knowing. It affects every bone, including teeth and even your hearing. You are simply too young to develop osteoporosis that comes with very advance age.

But, all this is unlikely. What happens, practically to everybody who is trying to change body composition later in life, is trauma to joints and ligaments and tendons. These kinds of tissue has much slower growth rate than muscle. Many adopt "deloading" to address this, to allow for catch up, perhaps you should look into something like that.

I am particularly sceptical about fierce 5 or any other heavy lifting, low rep routines. Sure way to get injured, 100% just a matter of time, and you perhaps reached it. Go for 15-20 reps on same moves. 10-12 reps scheme is still too heavy. I also abandoned pyramids, rather go for intensity and exhaustion. Higher reps take some time getting used to, but very rewarding. You will be surprised by growth rate.

Also, perhaps worth to consider low carb diet, or even full-blown keto. This is very antiinflammatory diet. My 2c

[WAINZ]

volume

[KyleAaron]

I may need to take some time off, which i don't want to do....

After two years of serious work, you're not going to lose everything in a few weeks or months.
Professional athletes have off-seasons, but for some reason amateurs think they don't need that. In my gym, people pay for 3 month terms, and they do strength training following the Starting Strength method. If I could arrange everything as I wished, it'd be something like university. I would structure it like this,

Term 1 - 12 weeks - Foundation-Building. Newbies learn to squat, press and pull, experienced lifters just build up.
1 week off.
Term 2 - 12 weeks - Bulking. Everyone aims to put on a few kilograms of lean mass. Underweight noobs it'll be more, overfat or experienced ones aim for a recomp. A good time for a powerlifting or strongman competition.
1 week off.
Term 3 - 12 weeks - Peaking. Build to a peak in strength. This would be the only time in the year people go for PRs. Another competition, beating the numbers of last term.
1 week off.
Term 4 - 12 weeks - Something Else. If you've been doing powerlifting, now do weightlifting. Or kettlebells. Or dumbbells and machines. Or rock-climbing. Or hiking or running. Or tennis. Whatever. And obviously, if you spent 9 months doing tennis, maybe Term 4 is powerlifting for you. Or whatever.

You'll then return to the following year with insights from this other sport, physically and mentally refreshed. And while you start back a bit lower than before, you start a lot higher than you did originally. It's not like you squat 400lbs, take 3 months off, and then have to start with the empty bar again.

If people keep doing just their one sport and nothing else, they get injured. More often, long before they get injured, they burn out - they just get sick of it all and lose their drive.

Because of the way gym businesses work I can't impose this system, people would have to wait 6 weeks to start and would lose interest. But an individual can apply it.

[Squid24]

I tried going lighter with bench/OHP exercises and even lifting the bar, or making those motions hurts. Wouldn't doing some other unconventional exercises throw off the program in general? Because bench and OHP are compound exercises, wouldn't i have to add in more exercises? For example, cables upward and downward pulls seem to be the only "chest' exercise that hurts the least, but now it's not activating shoulders/tri's as bench or OHP would, so would i add in a shoulder/tri exercise on those days?

Ya i just started going to a sports injury clinic so am hoping they can give me some advice on how to maybe strengthen the area, because the root cause to all of this was shoulder injuries when i was younger, i am now paying the price.

I like the first suggestion.

I've had shoulder issues for a VERY long time. Just went thru PT to help with some of the issues. What I've done is to use DB's in the areas I used the bar. You can go light, but also remember that when you do that repetition will cause some issues too, so find a comfortable weight to keep within the rep range and to not aggravate it much more..

Yes, for some of my shoulder exercises I am now using 3-15lbs instead of more.

[Squid24]

I'm a little skeptical of that diagnosis, been here 10 years and read at least 100k posts. 1st I've read of a 41 year male developing that condition in the shoulders.

I would get a 2nd opinion. Preferably with an actual bone/sports doc and a CT scan.

Yep, I did a complete body X-Ray and CT scan of my knees and shoulders. Also had a nerve damage test done for my right arm(DO NOT RECOMMEND GETTING THIS!!!!). They literally poked and prodded my whole arm. Now I have cramping issues with my arm due to what they did....not fun.

[Cantplankwell]

After two years of serious work, you're not going to lose everything in a few weeks or months.
Professional athletes have off-seasons, but for some reason amateurs think they don't need that. In my gym, people pay for 3 month terms, and they do strength training following the Starting Strength method. If I could arrange everything as I wished, it'd be something like university. I would structure it like this,

Term 1 - 12 weeks - Foundation-Building. Newbies learn to squat, press and pull, experienced lifters just build up.
1 week off.
Term 2 - 12 weeks - Bulking. Everyone aims to put on a few kilograms of lean mass. Underweight noobs it'll be more, overfat or experienced ones aim for a recomp. A good time for a powerlifting or strongman competition.
1 week off.
Term 3 - 12 weeks - Peaking. Build to a peak in strength. This would be the only time in the year people go for PRs. Another competition, beating the numbers of last term.
1 week off.
Term 4 - 12 weeks - Something Else. If you've been doing powerlifting, now do weightlifting. Or kettlebells. Or dumbbells and machines. Or rock-climbing. Or hiking or running. Or tennis. Whatever. And obviously, if you spent 9 months doing tennis, maybe Term 4 is powerlifting for you. Or whatever.

You'll then return to the following year with insights from this other sport, physically and mentally refreshed. And while you start back a bit lower than before, you start a lot higher than you did originally. It's not like you squat 400lbs, take 3 months off, and then have to start with the empty bar again.

If people keep doing just their one sport and nothing else, they get injured. More often, long before they get injured, they burn out - they just get sick of it all and lose their drive.

Because of the way gym businesses work I can't impose this system, people would have to wait 6 weeks to start and would lose interest. But an individual can apply it.

Brilliant, something like this would work for me. I am going in-season on ice hockey next week. The season will last till mid March. I have already planned to take Jan&Feb off from lifting, during the depths of the season. March I would restart with a massive reset back to one or two cycles ahead of where I started last December, hopefully this will leave me at don't miss a rep levels for awhile.