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  1. #7831
    Registered User MrDevereaux's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hidingwithmusic View Post
    I get orthostatic hypotension already if I jump out of bed too quickly. I've fallen a few times myself.. one last question about the nardil diet. Is it ok if I eat lunch meat (bologna and ham) anyway everyday? Or is it only cheese I can eat everyday?

    Did you also notice your appearance change after losing your depression? While depressed I look horrible but when I'm not girls are always staring at me.
    Hey. The official guidance is that smoked/dried meats should be avoided. I have eaten halm and bologna with zero problems though.

    The orthostatic hypotension has been severe at times so if you're falling anyway without Nardil then there's a good chance it will affect you. You just have to be really careful, not get up too quickly, spend a minute sitting up before standing, etc. I measured my blood pressure after one such episode and it was the lowest it has ever been by some margin.

    Nardil is quite famous for weight gain. I haven't gained weight on it and haven't noticed a change in my physical appearance save that now I can be bothered to take care of myself a lot better. Once I heal up from the injuries I intend to get back into running and start lifting. I have motivation now whereas before I couldn't be bothered to do anything.

    Girls like me more now but that's just because I give off a happy, relaxed vibe so people like being around me whereas before I felt so bad that people could easily pick up on the very bad energy coming from me. I don't think it's appearance related though.

    I have to stress that I really don't see Nardil helping somebody like EOD (no disrespect to him) because he has situational type depression and Nardil won't suddenly make you popular with girls, bring you tonnes of friends, etc. But if you're clinically depressed then Nardil could well help you with those thing, indirectly.

    I really sound like a Nardil rep or something, lol. I know people tend to 'push' things that have worked for them and will rave fanatically about certain vitamins, supplements, Kratom, meditation, etc. It's just that after so long and every med under the sun this has transformed my life (how long it will last, I don't know but I'm grateful for every day). This isn't some pseudoscientific snake oil though. It is a POWERFUL antidepressant.
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  2. #7832
    Registered User hidingwithmusic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrDevereaux View Post
    Hey. The official guidance is that smoked/dried meats should be avoided. I have eaten halm and bologna with zero problems though.

    The orthostatic hypotension has been severe at times so if you're falling anyway without Nardil then there's a good chance it will affect you. You just have to be really careful, not get up too quickly, spend a minute sitting up before standing, etc. I measured my blood pressure after one such episode and it was the lowest it has ever been by some margin.

    Nardil is quite famous for weight gain. I haven't gained weight on it and haven't noticed a change in my physical appearance save that now I can be bothered to take care of myself a lot better. Once I heal up from the injuries I intend to get back into running and start lifting. I have motivation now whereas before I couldn't be bothered to do anything.

    Girls like me more now but that's just because I give off a happy, relaxed vibe so people like being around me whereas before I felt so bad that people could easily pick up on the very bad energy coming from me. I don't think it's appearance related though.

    I have to stress that I really don't see Nardil helping somebody like EOD (no disrespect to him) because he has situational type depression and Nardil won't suddenly make you popular with girls, bring you tonnes of friends, etc. But if you're clinically depressed then Nardil could well help you with those thing, indirectly.

    I really sound like a Nardil rep or something, lol. I know people tend to 'push' things that have worked for them and will rave fanatically about certain vitamins, supplements, Kratom, meditation, etc. It's just that after so long and every med under the sun this has transformed my life (how long it will last, I don't know but I'm grateful for every day). This isn't some pseudoscientific snake oil though. It is a POWERFUL antidepressant.
    I look like hell, man lol. I guess it's from the restlessness, lack of energy, and years of sad mood.. that can take a tole on your appearance. I've gone through depression since the 2nd grade. I grew up in a bad home. The plan is to move back home, see a doc who will prescribe nardil, and give it a shot. Thanks a ton for answering all of my questions so far!
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  3. #7833
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    Originally Posted by hidingwithmusic View Post
    I look like hell, man lol. I guess it's from the restlessness, lack of energy, and years of sad mood.. that can take a tole on your appearance. I've gone through depression since the 2nd grade. I grew up in a bad home. The plan is to move back home, see a doc who will prescribe nardil, and give it a shot. Thanks a ton for answering all of my questions so far!
    I'm intrigued by it as well. I think I'll try the ketamine first, but if that doesn't work I may try to talk to a doctor. I've already done SSRIs and buproprion in the past, so no interest in rehashing those.
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  4. #7834
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    Honestly i wouldn't be surprised if caffeine is causing a lot of my depression since I have an addictive personality and it blocks your dopamine receptors most of the day. I would still be lonely though
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  5. #7835
    Registered User MrDevereaux's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hidingwithmusic View Post
    I look like hell, man lol. I guess it's from the restlessness, lack of energy, and years of sad mood.. that can take a tole on your appearance. I've gone through depression since the 2nd grade. I grew up in a bad home. The plan is to move back home, see a doc who will prescribe nardil, and give it a shot. Thanks a ton for answering all of my questions so far!
    Not at all, it's great talking with you and please ask me any questions anytime. Like I said, I know I'm coming across as zealous about Nardil. It's just hard not to be when it has had such a massive effect. Mornings used to be literal hell on earth. I would wake up wishing I had died in the night. Things didn't improve much during the day. Now I wake up and am actively excited about the day ahead. And I really have had every other treatment under the sun.

    The other thing is that I can relax now. I was never, ever able to do that before without either drinking or taking a benzo or something else.

    I know what you mean about depression taking a toll on physical appearance. It's not at all surprising. But is is also possible that depression makes you think you look worse than you actually do? Clearly depression has a massive impact on self esteem.
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  6. #7836
    Registered User MrDevereaux's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DizzySmalls View Post
    I'm intrigued by it as well. I think I'll try the ketamine first, but if that doesn't work I may try to talk to a doctor. I've already done SSRIs and buproprion in the past, so no interest in rehashing those.
    Have done SSRIs and Wellbutrin too. Did nothing for me (Wellbutrin made me hypomanic for a couple of days then nothing after that).

    Ketamine infusions were fantastic. Totally obliterated the depression. At some point it just stopped working for me, I'm not sure why and I think my experience is unusual. But I highly recommend Ketamine. The relief can be instant, whereas even with Nardil you have to wait weeks (for me maybe 6 weeks).

    Nardil has been amazing for me. Others prefer Parnate. I can't recommend one over the other but I can say that MAOIs really are something else. Have been on Fluoxetine, Paroxetine, Wellbutrin, Citalopram, Agomelatine, Lithium (augmentation), Seroquel (augmentation), Mirtazapine, Venlafaxine, Moclobemide (MAOI but weak as fukk compared to the true MAOIs) and probably others I couldn't remember.

    I also had ECT and rTMS.

    None of the above touched the depression. Nardil has obliterated both the depression and anxiety. I can only pray that it lasts and that it doesn't become obsolete.

    If I can have one good year that's good enough for me. Then if it stops working or I can't get it, I can feel happier about leaving life because I had at least one year of feeling like I do now.
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  7. #7837
    Registered User hidingwithmusic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrDevereaux View Post
    Not at all, it's great talking with you and please ask me any questions anytime. Like I said, I know I'm coming across as zealous about Nardil. It's just hard not to be when it has had such a massive effect. Mornings used to be literal hell on earth. I would wake up wishing I had died in the night. Things didn't improve much during the day. Now I wake up and am actively excited about the day ahead. And I really have had every other treatment under the sun.

    The other thing is that I can relax now. I was never, ever able to do that before without either drinking or taking a benzo or something else.

    I know what you mean about depression taking a toll on physical appearance. It's not at all surprising. But is is also possible that depression makes you think you look worse than you actually do? Clearly depression has a massive impact on self esteem.
    I agree that depression can make you think you look worse than you actually do and it messes with your self esteem, because I suffer with both..

    I think it's my muscles. The last time I got out of the depression I had this aura that surrounded me after my muscles were back and no longer weak. I wish I could better describe it. I carried myself stronger than everyone else which improved my posture and that maybe helped my appearance. While depressed I move pretty slow.. so slow I was even fired from a job. I think it's called psychomotor retardation. It might be that.
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  8. #7838
    Registered User NMS3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eod8989 View Post
    Honestly i wouldn't be surprised if caffeine is causing a lot of my depression since I have an addictive personality and it blocks your dopamine receptors most of the day. I would still be lonely though
    Caffeine is my best friend haha. Helps me a lot.
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  9. #7839
    Registered User MrDevereaux's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hidingwithmusic View Post
    I agree that depression can make you think you look worse than you actually do and it messes with your self esteem, because I suffer with both..

    I think it's my muscles. The last time I got out of the depression I had this aura that surrounded me after my muscles were back and no longer weak. I wish I could better describe it. I carried myself stronger than everyone else which improved my posture and that maybe helped my appearance. While depressed I move pretty slow.. so slow I was even fired from a job. I think it's called psychomotor retardation. It might be that.
    Psychomotor retardation, exactly. Have had that too. You can tell someone who is genuinely depressed just by that I think.

    Am really sorry you're suffering. As cliched as it is I would just remember there is hope. Not saying I'm cured forever by any means but I'm glad I hung in there long enough to get on this antidepressant. I just felt like if I were going to end it I sort of owed it to myself and family to try everything first.
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  10. #7840
    Registered User hidingwithmusic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrDevereaux View Post
    Psychomotor retardation, exactly. Have had that too. You can tell someone who is genuinely depressed just by that I think.

    Am really sorry you're suffering. As cliched as it is I would just remember there is hope. Not saying I'm cured forever by any means but I'm glad I hung in there long enough to get on this antidepressant. I just felt like if I were going to end it I sort of owed it to myself and family to try everything first.
    Thanks. It feels great to hear that from someone that's been there.. my counselors are trying to help but it feels like they dont know what they're talking about. kept that attitude for many years.

    how many total years you've been going through this?
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  11. #7841
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    dont know what to do. just feel stuck. Don't have friends so no opportunities. Just sit in my room all day. Going out alone does nothing so what can yuo do??
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  12. #7842
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    i dont have a single friend to go out with or feel confident around.
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    i dont want to post on the misc allday. the thing is i have nothing else to do. i dont have anyone in my life to spend time with. im soo ****ing lonely
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  14. #7844
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    it hurts so ****ing bad idk whg im even alive. i wish my parents never had me. i wasn't cut out for this world and never will be.
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  15. #7845
    Registered User MrDevereaux's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hidingwithmusic View Post
    Thanks. It feels great to hear that from someone that's been there.. my counselors are trying to help but it feels like they dont know what they're talking about. kept that attitude for many years.

    how many total years you've been going through this?
    To be honest your counselors probably don't know what they're talking about, like so many 'professionals' in the mental health field.

    I've been going through it for around 15 years, starting in my second year of uni. It hasn't been constant during those 15 years but there have been far more bad days than good and many horrific days. There is simply no way I would go through all that again. On the other hand right now I'm very glad to be alive. I simply never understood how people could be happy or feel that life was a 'blessing' as for me it was sheer torture and just something to be endured. I would literally only look forward to being asleep and constantly wished that I could be put in a coma or something.

    I don't think it will last for me. Although I feel so positive right now, I still cannot believe that this could possibly last. But that's ok, I'm just so grateful for the respite and astonished by how different life is depression free. How easy it is. I managed to cling onto work for all these years and had held on by the skin of my teeth for so long and now I just sail through it. The good thing is that working for so long means I have the financial resources to pay a lot of money for Nardil at a time when many can't get it.

    I'd really like to know more about your situation. I'm not saying that Nardil will be the answer for you but I do think that it's worth trying absolutely everything you have access to, whether that's Nardil, better counseling, lifting, psilocybin, etc. There are a lot of things to try.

    I'm more knowledgeable about the chemical style depression than depression stemming from isolation, dissatisfaction, etc although I think I can empathize with that. I like to think that if I were in that situation I'd be able to address it by making positive changes to my life but I know that's easier said than done and even for posters like EOD it's possible there is a strong chemical component that gets mistaken for unhappiness with circumstances. After all there will be many people in EOD's situation who are totally happy with things.
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    Went on a road trip and was feeling alright today until some bum approached me and asked for money. Then my mood shifted but i didn't let it bother me as much. Mood kept trying to change on the trip but i just kept thinking positive. Still feel empty and like a shell of my former self. For some reason i don't like being around a lot of people. At the mall i was getting annoyed standing in long lines and then i went to a gas station and saw some really social people and i got depressed. I just can't talk like other people man. I do weird chit like fold my arms or grab my chin if i am around a lot of people. I'm too quiet. I just don't enjoy little things normies do and struggle to find a purpose. They say late 20's to early 30's is the loneliest part of life though.
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    Originally Posted by imbored21 View Post
    dont know what to do. just feel stuck. Don't have friends so no opportunities. Just sit in my room all day. Going out alone does nothing so what can yuo do??
    Idk man i went out today and there were a lot of people at the lake with boats and chit in groups and i felt depressed. Just seeing how easily people can talk to others and how they have friends makes me depressed. I don't know why but i feel like i need to be under the influence to be social. I'm just dumb and boring now. A shell of my former self. Getting more introverted as i age.
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  18. #7848
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    Originally Posted by eod8989 View Post
    Went on a road trip and was feeling alright today until some bum approached me and asked for money. Then my mood shifted but i didn't let it bother me as much. Mood kept trying to change on the trip but i just kept thinking positive. Still feel empty and like a shell of my former self. For some reason i don't like being around a lot of people. At the mall i was getting annoyed standing in long lines and then i went to a gas station and saw some really social people and i got depressed. I just can't talk like other people man. I do weird chit like fold my arms or grab my chin if i am around a lot of people. I'm too quiet. I just don't enjoy little things normies do and struggle to find a purpose. They say late 20's to early 30's is the loneliest part of life though.
    shell of former self is a perfect description of how I feel. I never had the life I wanted but I always had someone I was close to and could feel good around. Now it's no one and I've completely lost my personality, my sense of humor, my goals, my interests. It's so ****ed up. No one should have to live like this.
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    i would have no problem dropping 50k right now on something if I thoought it could make me happy but I can't think of a single thing.
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    Originally Posted by imbored21 View Post
    shell of former self is a perfect description of how I feel. I never had the life I wanted but I always had someone I was close to and could feel good around. Now it's no one and I've completely lost my personality, my sense of humor, my goals, my interests. It's so ****ed up. No one should have to live like this.
    Yeah that's like the only way to describe it is a shell of what i once was. Ive always had trouble showing emotions and being social but its worst now. I'm just jaded and bored and think about sex all the time. I feel like you have to find love and intimacy or you just become cold like this.
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  22. #7852
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    I just don't know what you do if you don't like socializing. Humans need it though. Like you need to have people to always talk to and hang out with or you will get depressed. I can't even go to the gym without having anxiety or just feeling bored and out of place now days. I just feel so lonely all the time because i'm not social. This isn't normal.
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  23. #7853
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    Originally Posted by MrDevereaux View Post
    To be honest your counselors probably don't know what they're talking about, like so many 'professionals' in the mental health field.

    I've been going through it for around 15 years, starting in my second year of uni. It hasn't been constant during those 15 years but there have been far more bad days than good and many horrific days. There is simply no way I would go through all that again. On the other hand right now I'm very glad to be alive. I simply never understood how people could be happy or feel that life was a 'blessing' as for me it was sheer torture and just something to be endured. I would literally only look forward to being asleep and constantly wished that I could be put in a coma or something.

    I don't think it will last for me. Although I feel so positive right now, I still cannot believe that this could possibly last. But that's ok, I'm just so grateful for the respite and astonished by how different life is depression free. How easy it is. I managed to cling onto work for all these years and had held on by the skin of my teeth for so long and now I just sail through it. The good thing is that working for so long means I have the financial resources to pay a lot of money for Nardil at a time when many can't get it.

    I'd really like to know more about your situation. I'm not saying that Nardil will be the answer for you but I do think that it's worth trying absolutely everything you have access to, whether that's Nardil, better counseling, lifting, psilocybin, etc. There are a lot of things to try.

    I'm more knowledgeable about the chemical style depression than depression stemming from isolation, dissatisfaction, etc although I think I can empathize with that. I like to think that if I were in that situation I'd be able to address it by making positive changes to my life but I know that's easier said than done and even for posters like EOD it's possible there is a strong chemical component that gets mistaken for unhappiness with circumstances. After all there will be many people in EOD's situation who are totally happy with things.
    My situation is confusing.. very confusing lol. two diagnosis and it dates back to my childhood. When I was a kid I was beaten, abused, starved, etc. Saught treatment in 12 grade and been resistant to nearly every ssri. Just like you I have no reason to feel depressed. its been almost 10 years since the last time ive felt happy. Ive had my depression lifted twice for maybe 5 weeks total since the 2nd grade. My entire life has been unhappy.
    Last edited by hidingwithmusic; 07-04-2020 at 11:09 AM.
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    Been feeling so awful today with some really bad thoughts. I just don’t see how this is ever going to end. I’m getting so tired of this. Everyone always says things get better but all I ever feel is like I’m stuck at that same level. Nothing seems to get better. I feel like I reached my peak in life years ago & it’s been downhill ever since.
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    I really think it's impossible to meet people now days if you are introverted and don't have friends. I've never felt so lonely in my life.
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    Originally Posted by eod8989 View Post
    I really think it's impossible to meet people now days if you are introverted and don't have friends. I've never felt so lonely in my life.
    It’s true man. You need a built in social circle already to make more friends. You can’t just go anywhere alone & start from scratch any longer today. Anyone that didn’t have a social circle already at the start of the social media era are screwed. Only chance is to meet people at work, through family or if you’re in school. If you don’t have at least one of those three to meet people from than it’s impossible. I can’t just go to a damn place where everyone is in groups already & just become friends with them.
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    Originally Posted by BigTimePlayer View Post
    It’s true man. You need a built in social circle already to make more friends. You can’t just go anywhere alone & start from scratch any longer today. Anyone that didn’t have a social circle already at the start of the social media era are screwed. Only chance is to meet people at work, through family or if you’re in school. If you don’t have at least one of those three to meet people from than it’s impossible. I can’t just go to a damn place where everyone is in groups already & just become friends with them.
    That's basically what it is. People who are past college aged who didn't have friends before 2014 or so are fuked. And idk about you but when i go places there seems to be way more people and groups than i remember before. Like the gym is now crowded with groups unless you go first thing in the morning. There is no way to meet people there anymore.
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    Originally Posted by hidingwithmusic View Post
    My situation is confusing.. very confusing lol. two diagnosis and it dates back to my childhood. When I was a kid I was beaten, abused, starved, etc. Saught treatment in 12 grade and been resistant to nearly every ssri. Just like you I have no reason to feel depressed. its been almost 10 years since the last time ive felt happy. Ive had my depression lifted twice for maybe 5 weeks total since the 2nd grade. My entire life has been unhappy.
    I'm so sorry my friend. I wish I knew more about depression that stemmed from childhood and that kind of abuse and trauma. It amazes me that anybody could go through that and not be depressed. I just wonder if treating depression stemming from that kind of abuse lies in therapy, meds or more likely a combination of both.

    You say you have no reason to feel depressed but that early life trauma seems reason aplenty, no matter how things are right now. I still really hope that the right med could lift you enough to at least begin to work through some of that early childhood experience. It sounds like it would cause PTSD but again that's not something I know a lot about.

    Do you have the financial resources to try various treatments (whatever those may be)?

    One thing I'll apologise for i advance is that you may notice I ask you the same questions. It's not that I'm not listening. My memory has been quite badly affected by ECT and there isn't too much I can do about it.
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  29. #7859
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    Originally Posted by MrDevereaux View Post
    I don't disagree with you in many ways. Environmental factors were massively important in the genesis of my depression.

    However at this point things are just different for me. Nardil has worked for me and now I wake up every day loving life and looking forward to the day ahead. NOTHING in my circumstances has changed.

    I think the only point I disagree with you on is that my depression is similar to EODs. He is sad about not having friends, loneliness, lack of interest in his girl, etc. I never experienced any of that. The depression I had was almost 'physical'. I think Styron describes it as a neuralgic pain.

    It is a COMPLETELY different state of existence and bears zero resemblance to ordinary sadness or melancholy. It is psychic pain and unless you have experienced it there is no possible way that you could know what it feels like. I'm not saying YOU haven't, I'm just saying that people that haven't experienced this kind of depression simply cannot understand it.

    It would be like me trying to understand schizophrenia. I haven't experienced it and simply cannot imagine what that is like.

    EOD and I have very different types of depression.

    Just to be clear, I really like this discussion and hope nothing I say riles you. I think it's fine for us to have different points of view and a lot of what you say makes total sense to me.

    I really hope that you can gradually address the issues you describe. In no way to I mean to trivialise the kind of depression that stems from isolation, etc. It's bad enough to drive people to suicide. My only point is that it's different to my depression.
    Firstly, i’m happy to hear your thoughts; I am not riled up in the slightest. Truth be told I wish more conversations on the misc were this civil, where one can speak his mind and the other does not get ‘butthurt’ as a result.

    Going off your brief descriptions of your depression, I must admit none of it seems to be connected to any kind of sadness or melancholy. But if we perceive depression as a low energy state, or perhaps a stressed state (because a stressed stress is a low energy state), then I think we come back to your depression and EOD’s depression having more in common than first appearances would suggest.

    Where I do agree with you though is that I think your depression has taken on a life of it’s own. The best i analogy I can think of is a person who has become grossly obese. Originally, they would have just been a little bit fat and the whole condition would have been quite easily reversible, but with time they became super whales and the body makes all sorts of compensations and adapts to that state, and then the whole condition becomes close to irreversible without severe intervention / life style changes.

    But the main point i’d like to drive home is that you were fine and normal during the early years of your life, happy even, and then your depression built from adolescence onwards.
    Last edited by alltrapbrah; 07-05-2020 at 06:12 AM.
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  30. #7860
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    Originally Posted by MrDevereaux View Post
    You say you have no reason to feel depressed but that early life trauma seems reason aplenty, no matter how things are right now. I still really hope that the right med could lift you enough to at least begin to work through some of that early childhood experience. It sounds like it would cause PTSD but again that's not something I know a lot about.
    I’ve mentioned what i’m about to say a handful of times before, but it’s worth repeating for those unaware:

    As horrible as outright (overt) child abuse is, there is one upside in that the victim knows he has been abused, which is highly useful when it comes to identifying and overcoming any connected problems. But there also exists more covert forms of child abuse, which often occur in seemingly well put together families. In these cases, the abuse isn’t as overt, e.g. yo daddy isn’t taking a wrench to your head in an alcoholic rage, but instead the abuse occurs in more subtle ways, and has this sinister quality in that the child is completely unaware of any damage being done and subsequently develops into an adult who is confused about why they’re having difficulties in life.

    It was only in my late adulthood and after much reading that I came to realise just how dysfunctional my immediate family is, but on the surface we appeared to be a relatively normal family.
    Last edited by alltrapbrah; 07-05-2020 at 06:09 AM.
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