Ongoing Study Discussion Thread - Nutrition, Training, Health etc.

[blue9steel]

^ Why would they use a Smith Machine to use a spotter for, kind of silly, no?....or for that matter, why would anyone need/want to even bench on a Smith Machine?

There is a guy at my gym that always asks people for a spot on the Smith Machine. I just find it confusing since that is pretty much the main point of using it in the first place, you don't need a spotter.

[boo99]

There is a guy at my gym that always asks people for a spot on the Smith Machine. I just find it confusing since that is pretty much the main point of using it in the first place, you don't need a spotter.

I always LOL when I see that at my gyms I visit, once I even saw two guys spotting this very thin lifter on the Smith Machine?

SMH

[BennoMac]

a guy at my gym uses the smith machine as a leg press, he lays flat on a bench and uses his legs...
i only use smith machine for Calf raises as i dont have a calf raise machine.

[rml27v]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28542004
An observational study where athletes (males at ~14%BF) are training >10 hours a week. In a calorie surplus most of the gains were in muscle and in a calorie deficit most of the losses were in fat
http://wikigimnasio.com/wp-content/u...d-exercise.pdf
found this stuff on reddit.

[Mrpb]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28542004
An observational study where athletes (males at ~14%BF) are training >10 hours a week. In a calorie surplus most of the gains were in muscle and in a calorie deficit most of the losses were in fat
http://wikigimnasio.com/wp-content/u...d-exercise.pdf
found this stuff on reddit.

Thanks for sharing. But keep in mind FFM =/= muscle. FFM also includes water, glycogen, organs, bone mass etc. It includes everything besides fat.

[rml27v]

Oh I copied that from poster on reddit, I don't have access to full study.

[dashdash89]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28542004
An observational study where athletes (males at ~14%BF) are training >10 hours a week. In a calorie surplus most of the gains were in muscle and in a calorie deficit most of the losses were in fat
http://wikigimnasio.com/wp-content/u...d-exercise.pdf
found this stuff on reddit.

Nice find.

This study used DXA, but also a "four compartment model" to determine BF% and lean mass.

A 4C-model was used to assess body composition, calculated after using the soft tissue mineral (Ms) component obtained as Ms = 0.0129TBW(22). The 4C-model is described as follows:
FM (kg) = 2.748BV - 0.699TBW + 1.129Mo - 2.051BM (1)
where BV is body volume (L), TBW is total body water (kg), Mo is bone mineral (kg), and BM is body mass (kg)

So Total Body Water was measured separately

TBW was assessed through deuterium dilution by a Hydra stable isotope ratio mass spectrometer (PDZ, Europa Scientific, Cheshire, UK). Procedures are described elsewhere (17) with a coefficient of variation (CV) of 0.3%. Bone mineral content was determined dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (Hologic Explorer-W, fanbeam densitometer, software QDR for windows version 12.4, Waltham, MA, USA).and converted to Mo by multiplying it by 1.0436(11) with a CV of 1.3%(17). DXA was also used as an independent method to determine FM and FFM. Air displacement plethysmography (COSMED, Rome, Italy) was used to assess BV with a CV of 0.4%, as described elsewhere(17). Protein was calculated as BW minus FM (from the 4C-model), TBW, Mo and Ms contents of FFM.

This wasn't a feeding study, just your usual dietary records to measure energy intake. But the purpose of the study was to measure changes in body composition, and they don't make any sort of hypothesis on dietary composition, so I see this as perfectly fine.

However, because it is observational, body composition measurements were only taken before and after -- they didn't track changes over time, so it's hard to extract too much from this. A 90/10 split between lean mass and fat mass sounds great, but did it look like that at all points across the length of the study? Who knows...

Something interesting:

Using DXA as an independent body composition method, baseline FM and FFM were tested as significant predictors of the energy partition ratio. No significant association was observed between initial FM and the energy partition ratio (p=0.058) but initial FFM was significantly related (p=0.044). After adjusting for sex, age, and sport type this later association was no longer significant (p=0.488).

It seems this goes against the findings of the other paper you linked, right? There it mentions starting BF as a predictor for lean mass accrual while overfeeding. Here they say starting lean mass was a better predictor?

[Mrpb]

Yeah 4C always measures body water. Still doesn't mean that changes in FFM necessarily equate to changes in skeletal muscle though.

[rml27v]

It seems this goes against the findings of the other paper you linked, right? There it mentions starting BF as a predictor for lean mass accrual while overfeeding. Here they say starting lean mass was a better predictor?

The way i see it is that both are good indicators.

[Mrpb]

Can anyone remind me of the study that showed high volume training decreased testosterone levels up to a week or so?

[dashdash89]

Can anyone remind me of the study that showed high volume training decreased testosterone levels up to a week or so?

Not sure if this is the one you're looking for

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14685870

[Mrpb]

Not sure if this is the one you're looking for

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14685870

Thanks. It was something similar like that but I don't think that's the one. It was a study that has been linked to a couple of times previously. Maybe even by you, not sure.

[ThinkAndGoHam]

Thoughts on this study?

Intermittent energy restriction improves weight loss efficiency in obese men

Greater weight and fat loss was achieved with intermittent ER. Interrupting ER with energy balance 'rest periods' may reduce compensatory metabolic responses and, in turn, improve weight loss efficiency.International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 19 September 2017; doi:10.1038/ijo.2017.206.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28925405

[Mrpb]

Thoughts on this study?

Intermittent energy restriction improves weight loss efficiency in obese men

Greater weight and fat loss was achieved with intermittent ER. Interrupting ER with energy balance 'rest periods' may reduce compensatory metabolic responses and, in turn, improve weight loss efficiency.International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 19 September 2017; doi:10.1038/ijo.2017.206.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28925405

Some discussion here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=174762961

[ThinkAndGoHam]

Some discussion here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=174762961

Thank's hard to keep up with all the threads on here, always missing stuff.

[Mrpb]

Study showing minor benefits to high protein intakes: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-017-0201-z

Whilst it is therefore likely that moderate protein intakes (1.8 g.kg−1.d−1) may be sufficient for resistance-trained individuals, it is noteworthy that both lower body exercise performance and bioelectrical phase angle were maintained with PROHIGH. Longer term interventions are warranted to determine whether PROMOD intakes are sufficient during prolonged training periods or when extensive exercise (e.g. training twice daily) is undertaken.

(posted in the other thread too)

[R5GT]

Thought on this?

Study showing greater weight loss and improved health and hormone markers when 80% carbs were consumed in one meal.

The study involved 78 overweight policemen placed into 2 separate groups and fed them the same amount of calories with the same macros for 6 months. One group (Control) had several meals throughout the day with carbs and the other group (test) had 80% of their carbs in one meal. The result was Greater weight loss, abdominal circumference, and body fat mass reductions in the test diet. Hunger scores were lower ,greater improvements in fasting glucose,higher leptin levels, lower LDL, high HDL, much higher adiponectinand in the inflammatory markers (protein C – reactive (PCR), tumour necrosis factor – a (TNF – a) and interleukin -6 (IL-6).

The question is,is this only relevant for overweight ppl? or would it also be relevant in leaner people too? its interesting never the less.

Link to study

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...by.2011.48/pdf

[Mrpb]

^ If you start looking for it you can find studies with greater weight loss when consuming more calories in the morning, at lunch and at dinner.

This specific study wasn't well controlled (calories self reported iirc) and BIA body composition measurement (rather poor accuracy).

Well controlled studies usually fail to find a benefit to specific spreading.

[Heisman2]

Additionally, that study had a high drop out rate and the experimental group started with higher BMI and bodyfat percentage than the control group. As both groups were given the same diet and calorie amounts, it makes sense the experimental group lost more weight.

[Mrpb]

The Effects of Overfeeding on Body Composition: The Role of Macronutrient Composition - A Narrative Review

Abstract
International Journal of Exercise Science 10(8): 1275-1296, 2017. Compared to investigations on hypocaloric diets, the effects of chronic overfeeding have been less studied. It has been posited that consuming calories in excess of daily caloric requirements will result in a gain in body weight and in particular fat mass regardless of which macronutrient(s) are consumed. However, recent evidence suggests that there is a quantitative difference in protein versus carbohydrate and/or fat overfeeding as it relates to body composition. Protein overfeeding or the consumption of a high protein diet may not result in a gain in body weight or fat mass despite consuming calories that exceed one’s normal or habitual intake. Therefore, this review will provide an up-to-date narrative on the current scientific literature on various combinations of macronutrient overfeeding and its effects on body composition.

full text: https://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/v...9&context=ijes

[boo99]

The Effects of Overfeeding on Body Composition: The Role of Macronutrient Composition - A Narrative Review

Abstract
International Journal of Exercise Science 10(8): 1275-1296, 2017. Compared to investigations on hypocaloric diets, the effects of chronic overfeeding have been less studied. It has been posited that consuming calories in excess of daily caloric requirements will result in a gain in body weight and in particular fat mass regardless of which macronutrient(s) are consumed. However, recent evidence suggests that there is a quantitative difference in protein versus carbohydrate and/or fat overfeeding as it relates to body composition. Protein overfeeding or the consumption of a high protein diet may not result in a gain in body weight or fat mass despite consuming calories that exceed one’s normal or habitual intake. Therefore, this review will provide an up-to-date narrative on the current scientific literature on various combinations of macronutrient overfeeding and its effects on body composition.

full text: https://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/v...9&context=ijes

Thank you, as always, for posting this

I'm loving the bolded

Downloaded to read later

[Mrpb]

Thank you, as always, for posting this

I'm loving the bolded

Downloaded to read later

I don't want to be the one that brings the bad news but... I expect that's based on the 'famous' Antonio study with self reported calories.

A more controlled protein overfeeding study showed that people still gained fat. But hey of the choices high protein is probably the best.

PS. I have not read the full text of the review yet.

[boo99]

I don't want to be the one that brings the bad news but... I expect that's based on the 'famous' Antonio study with self reported calories.

A more controlled protein overfeeding study showed that people still gained fat. But hey of the choices high protein is probably the best.

PS. I have not read the full text of the review yet.

Yes I recall the Antonio study

Well this is anecdotal but I've been testing out, while here in NYC, just eating a chitload of pro (low CHO, low fat) over my TDEE, which I've been eating at for a while, and I haven't gained anything in the 10 days but that's just me but I think there is something to this, possibly the the thermic effect of pro being that it's the most thermic of the macros

[BennoMac]

Thanks for posting this. interesting reads.

[Heterodox]

Does anybody know what the highest protein intake is that has been studied in resistance trained people?

[SubWooferCooker]

Does anybody know what the highest protein intake is that has been studied in resistance trained people?

I believe it is this one

A high protein diet (3.4 g/kg/d) combined with a heavy resistance training program improves body composition in healthy trained men and women – a follow-up investigation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617900/

[Mrpb]

The one before it had 4.4 gram per kg: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...550-2783-11-19

[Heterodox]

I believe it is this one

A high protein diet (3.4 g/kg/d) combined with a heavy resistance training program improves body composition in healthy trained men and women – a follow-up investigation

The one before it had 4.4 gram per kg:

So basically both showed that eating a surplus of protein lead to no extra bodyfat being stored? interesting but there was no advantage to muscle gain?

[Mrpb]

So basically both showed that eating a surplus of protein lead to no extra bodyfat being stored? interesting but there was no advantage to muscle gain?

Well if we believe their calorie reporting one could eat a surplus of protein without gaining fat. But tightly controlled studies show something else: the calories in protein still count.

As for muscle gain: most studies show zero benefit in going above 2 gram per kg.

[chamelious]

Well if we believe their calorie reporting one could eat a surplus of protein without gaining fat.

I've never even understood how this could be reported. How can you say you're eating as "surplus of protein" unless protein is literally all you eat? Its like trying to blame an overflowing bucket on a specific drop of water surely.