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  1. #631
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    ^ mean weight loss was 0.8 kg over 4 weeks but not statistically significant. So yes they were probably in a small calorie deficit.
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  2. #632
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    ^ mean weight loss was 0.8 kg over 4 weeks but not statistically significant. So yes they were probably in a small calorie deficit.
    Interesting... I also haven’t read all the way through it, but definitely curious about when during the day they get tested.

    I think for many people going 12-14 hours without food is pretty common... I myself only really eat between 9am and 730-8pm, so I go ~13hrs without food but that’s only for a single interval unlike the people in the study.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  3. #633
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    I skimmed through the paper. I don't like it. A few reasons why:

    1. I'm generally not a fan of proteomics studies. You throw enough things at a wall and something will stick. If you're looking at gene expression products then you are looking at literally 10,000+ different items. They mention they do a t test for each gene product. They do not mention anything about multiple hypothesis testing. If you're going to be doing 10,000+ different tests you need some form of multiple hypothesis testing. Without that I'm skeptical how many of the results are real. I bet if they repeat this study with a different group they'll find many different genes are significantly different.

    2. They only looked at 14 people. Again, see my issue above; that is a small sample size so there will be a lot of noise and by random chance some results will seem quite significant.

    3. To address the above questions they fasted 14+ hours every day during Ramadan. They did the tests in the morning after fasting overnight or at least 8 hours.

    4. They see no difference in metabolic parameters or serum metabolic markers or in the fecal microbiota. Yet they want to say the gene expression changes are really important. So much so they include this gem of a line: "Our results suggest that 30-day intermittent fasting can be preventive and adjunct treatment in several cancers and increase sensitivity to chemotherapy." That is a HUGE leap as they only tested this in 14 healthy people; they need to repeat this in people with cancer and then specifically look at the proteome within the tumor cell to be able to actually make this claim.

    I'm going to leave it there and suggest not buying into this too much. Most of the chrononutrition literature I have seen suggests eating at similar times each day is likely beneficial and eating most of your calories early in the day rather than late may be beneficial at least under certain conditions. I tend to think this may not apply for people who exercise in the evening. I'm also skeptical this becomes clinically important for people who follow a generally healthy diet, exercise well, and have a healthy bodyfat percentage. This study doesn't change my thoughts at all.
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  4. #634
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Interesting... I also haven’t read all the way through it, but definitely curious about when during the day they get tested.

    I think for many people going 12-14 hours without food is pretty common... I myself only really eat between 9am and 730-8pm, so I go ~13hrs without food but that’s only for a single interval unlike the people in the study.
    This. 12-14 hours is nothing out-of-the-ordinary for most people and is a pretty normal interval for me. Going 12 waking hours from breakfast to dinner would be rough though.

    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    I skimmed through the paper. I don't like it. A few reasons why:

    1. I'm generally not a fan of proteomics studies. You throw enough things at a wall and something will stick. If you're looking at gene expression products then you are looking at literally 10,000+ different items. They mention they do a t test for each gene product. They do not mention anything about multiple hypothesis testing. If you're going to be doing 10,000+ different tests you need some form of multiple hypothesis testing. Without that I'm skeptical how many of the results are real. I bet if they repeat this study with a different group they'll find many different genes are significantly different.

    2. They only looked at 14 people. Again, see my issue above; that is a small sample size so there will be a lot of noise and by random chance some results will seem quite significant.

    3. To address the above questions they fasted 14+ hours every day during Ramadan. They did the tests in the morning after fasting overnight or at least 8 hours.

    4. They see no difference in metabolic parameters or serum metabolic markers or in the fecal microbiota. Yet they want to say the gene expression changes are really important. So much so they include this gem of a line: "Our results suggest that 30-day intermittent fasting can be preventive and adjunct treatment in several cancers and increase sensitivity to chemotherapy." That is a HUGE leap as they only tested this in 14 healthy people; they need to repeat this in people with cancer and then specifically look at the proteome within the tumor cell to be able to actually make this claim.

    I'm going to leave it there and suggest not buying into this too much. Most of the chrononutrition literature I have seen suggests eating at similar times each day is likely beneficial and eating most of your calories early in the day rather than late may be beneficial at least under certain conditions. I tend to think this may not apply for people who exercise in the evening. I'm also skeptical this becomes clinically important for people who follow a generally healthy diet, exercise well, and have a healthy bodyfat percentage. This study doesn't change my thoughts at all.
    I had the same thoughts. Eating at similar time intervals is understandably beneficial because your hunger levels will peak at similar times everyday, and even shift workers who eat at odd hours benefit immensely from simply keeping a schedule.
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  5. #635
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    Thanks for the info Heisman2.

    New study confirming what you wrote: Four Weeks of Time-Restricted Feeding Combined With Resistance Training Does Not Differentially Influence Measures of Body Composition, Muscle Performance, Resting Energy Expenditure, and Blood Biomarkers
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32316561/?dopt=Abstract
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  6. #636
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    Brand new IF Study

    Very short duration

    Mennno H. commented about the study just now on his IG



    Below is taken from the study:

    In conclusion, our findings suggest that adopting a TRF style of eating does not enhance reductions in FM over caloric restriction alone during a 4-week hypocaloric diet.

    Full study link:

    https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/4/1126/htm
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  7. #637
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    ^ very nice recomp results in both groups. Even though they were in significant deficit.
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  8. #638
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    ^ very nice recomp results in both groups. Even though they were in significant deficit.
    Looking back on it, I didn’t even notice the large deficit till seeing your post but yes
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  9. #639
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    Another study showing people making gains in a deficit thanks!

    This year i am seriously considering dedicating my self 100% to a recomp, if people can build muscle in a deficit then surely eating at maintenance is all you need to make good gains providing you are not already very lean say sub 12% Are there any studies where people at maintenance while following a proper lifting routine that DIDN't gain muscle?

    i'm starting to wonder if spending 6+ months gaining 15lbs only to spend another 4 months cutting only to bag a small net few lbs of lbm is even the the most efficient way anymore, im interested to see what could happen if i spent that entire time just eating at maintenance and focusing on improving all of my lifts starting out at around 14% body fat
    Last edited by StayNattyBruh; 04-27-2020 at 03:02 AM.
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  10. #640
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    Originally Posted by StayNattyBruh View Post
    Another study showing people making gains in a deficit thanks!

    This year i am seriously considering dedicating my self 100% to a recomp, if people can build muscle in a deficit then surely eating at maintenance is all you need to make good gains providing you are not already very lean say sub 12% Are there any studies where people at maintenance while following a proper lifting routine that DIDN't gain muscle?

    i'm starting to wonder if spending 6+ months gaining 15lbs only to spend another 4 months cutting only to bag a small net few lbs of lbm is even the the most efficient way anymore, im interested to see what could happen if i spent that entire time just eating at maintenance and focusing on improving all of my lifts starting out at around 14% body fat
    In the end it comes down to this:

    Can you make significant progress on your lifts in the medium rep ranges over multiple sets without eating a surplus?

    If so, you can continue because you are gaining muscle.

    If not, try eating a bit more.
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  11. #641
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    Stu Phillips going full potato...

    https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/5/1235
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  12. #642
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Stu Phillips going full potato...

    https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/5/1235
    lol yes

    When they consumed 25g x2 of the PP is it referring to the protein amount or the actual weight of the PP?

    Seems like it would be higher volume of the PP than whey, (lower leucine I’d assume)which scoops average about 25g - 30g of the product itself, but the scoop weight never equals the protein, at least with whey I’ve used
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  13. #643
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    lol yes

    When they consumed 25g x2 of the PP is it referring to the protein amount or the actual weight of the PP?

    Seems like it would be higher volume of the PP than whey, (lower leucine I’d assume)which scoops average about 25g - 30g of the product itself, but the scoop weight never equals the protein, at least with whey I’ve used
    If you'd like to know, it's probably mentioned in the full text. I haven't read the full text.
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  14. #644
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    If you'd like to know, it's probably mentioned in the full text. I haven't read the full text.
    Ok will do


    Didn’t know it was available till now when I saw the PDF DL link
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  15. #645
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    Updated Cochrane review on saturated fat:

    The findings of this updated review suggest that reducing saturated fat intake for at least two years causes a potentially important reduction in combined cardiovascular events. Replacing the energy from saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat or carbohydrate appear to be useful strategies, while effects of replacement with monounsaturated fat are unclear. The reduction in combined cardiovascular events resulting from reducing saturated fat did not alter by study duration, sex or baseline level of cardiovascular risk, but greater reduction in saturated fat caused greater reductions in cardiovascular events.

    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...1737.pub2/full
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