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  1. #541
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    Interesting 2 day old, brand new research, from Brad and others on what most of us do in the gym, which is constantly varying our exercises



    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0226989
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  2. #542
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    Interesting 2 day old, brand new research, from Brad and others on what most of us do in the gym, which is constantly varying our exercises
    I saw it on Facebook. Do you constantly vary your exercises?

    I usually stick to the same in the same order.

    Menno wrote an article about that study https://mennohenselmans.com/effects-...imal-strength/
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  3. #543
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I saw it on Facebook. Do you constantly vary your exercises?

    I usually stick to the same in the same order.

    Menno wrote an article about that study https://mennohenselmans.com/effects-...imal-strength/
    Ah he just posted on IG this am.

    I never, ever do the same exercises at all in each session.

    In fact everything is changed:

    The order, the type of exercise for that body part, the weight amount, number of sets, reps (which I never count but are varied from low/high) rest intervals....longer/shorter.

    I leave the gym when I no longer feel anything contracting.

    Big variations in all. Keeps me from getting bored too. Lol

    Thank you for the Menno link, I just bookmarked it and will read today.
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  4. #544
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    Ah he just posted on IG this am.

    I never, ever do the same exercises at all in each session.

    In fact everything is changed:

    The order, the type of exercise for that body part, the weight amount, number of sets, reps (which I never count but are varied from low/high) rest intervals....longer/shorter.

    I leave the gym when I no longer feel anything contracting.

    Big variations in all. Keeps me from getting bored too. Lol

    Thank you for the Menno link, I just bookmarked it and will read today.
    Well if it's working for you why not. But scientifically speaking that way of training doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think we've discussed this previously on PM. Let me know if you want me to comment more on that. Reading Menno's article should give a good impression.
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  5. #545
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Well if it's working for you why not. But scientifically speaking that way of training doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think we've discussed this previously on PM. Let me know if you want me to comment more on that. Reading Menno's article should give a good impression.
    Yes we talked about it and you probably right science wise but Im going on my 29th year of first walking in a gym so I really make it a fun experience with changing it everytime.

    I think if it was my first year in the gym, I'd likely be more rigid in my workouts but yes Im cool with my body composition. I look better then most 22yos lol and definitely don't look like a DYEL, which makes me very happy lol.

    Going to read Menno today, I just posted his link in my IG for my followers.
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  6. #546
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    This study isn't new, but is very fascinating to me: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21574706

    "RESULTS:
    The mindset of indulgence produced a dramatically steeper decline in ghrelin after consuming the shake, whereas the mindset of sensibility produced a relatively flat ghrelin response. Participants' satiety was consistent with what they believed they were consuming rather than the actual nutritional value of what they consumed.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    The effect of food consumption on ghrelin may be psychologically mediated, and mindset meaningfully affects physiological responses to food."



    This seems to show that perception of energy density has a significant impact on the satiety achieved from a food/meal, regardless of it's actual content.

    Is this well-known? I've never seen or heard of this before...



    This later, seemingly related study appears to confirm the aforementioned findings... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24732416
    Last edited by AdamWW; 12-31-2019 at 02:12 PM.
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  7. #547
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    The potential issue is that while that seems true with the first exposure, once you have a repeat exposure and have a better understanding of how full you will be the response can change. Nice review here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24224414002386
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  8. #548
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    The potential issue is that while that seems true with the first exposure, once you have a repeat exposure and have a better understanding of how full you will be the response can change. Nice review here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24224414002386
    Many thanks!
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  9. #549
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    Plant Protein vs. Whey protein when Leucine is equal



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950667/

    "Conclusions
    We conclude that three high quality (defined as PDCAAS equal to 1.0) plant-based protein blends, standardized for leucine content did not achieve bio-equivalence to WPI, as measured by total iAUC of blood eAA concentrations over 4 h following ingestions. However, promising leucine kinetic data may help inform future studies. Additionally, the plant-based protein blends were safe and able to be absorbed by the blood stream with a good efficiency, thus proving to be a viable alternative to the consumption of animal proteins. Further studies may investigate the capacity, upon supplementation, to improve both sports performances and MPS, comparing the effects of plant-based protein blends and animal proteins."
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  10. #550
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    ^^ That was interesting, thanx for that Adam.

    I think Jorn writes in his MPS research of supplementing leucine powder to vegan based diets to bring up the Leu amounts to where MPS is triggered at a maximum
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  11. #551
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    ^^ That was interesting, thanx for that Adam.

    I think Jorn writes in his MPS research of supplementing leucine powder to vegan based diets to bring up the Leu amounts to where MPS is triggered at a maximum
    Yeah I’ve seen similar recommendations too. Another good thing to note is that even though WPI was superior, the vegan protein did dramatically raise MPS, so it’s not an all or nothing comparison, just less optimal than the whey.
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  12. #552
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Yeah I’ve seen similar recommendations too. Another good thing to note is that even though WPI was superior, the vegan protein did dramatically raise MPS, so it’s not an all or nothing comparison, just less optimal than the whey.
    Some still think that vegan diets cannot build any quality muscle but this should add to those who are ignorant to research
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  13. #553
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    Some still think that vegan diets cannot build any quality muscle but this should add to those who are ignorant to research
    It would be interesting to see how whole food plant sources compare to things like Greek yogurt or chicken... maybe a comparison of tofu/tempeh/lentils to other common meat/dairy options.
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    I'm sure most people here are familiar with Matthew Walker and his "Why We Sleep?". He hit all the major media circuits, had one of the most downloaded TED talks of all time, and appeared on Joe Rogan to promote his widely-praised book about the benefits of sleep. Ever since I heard him speak, I just had a gut sense that he was exaggerating his claims. It turns out, my gut instinct was correct. Alexey Guzey just published a paper that systematically tears apart Walker's book and reveals that it was rife with misleading statements and scientific inaccuracies:https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/.

    If anything sounds too good to be true, even the amazing benefits of a good night's sleep, then it probably is.
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  15. #555
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Yeah I’ve seen similar recommendations too. Another good thing to note is that even though WPI was superior, the vegan protein did dramatically raise MPS, so it’s not an all or nothing comparison, just less optimal than the whey.
    I don't think the study measured MPS did it?
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  16. #556
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I don't think the study measured MPS did it?
    Sorry not MPS, I meant the serum amino acids. I get too used to using MPS as the metric it’s always on the top of my tongue ;-)
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    I was going to post this here today but couldn't find this link to the Ongoing discussion. Thank you Adam

    This was released 11 days ago

    This is the abstract but I'd like to see the full study to discuss because we (and many others) usually say to up protein whilst in an energy deficit


    No effect of increasing protein intake during military exercise with severe energy deficit on body composition and performance

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/sms.13634

    Maybe Mrpb has full access to Wiley
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    Problems with that ^ study: small sample size, short duration and DEXA can't measure changes in muscle size.

    I'd keep going with 1.6 gram per kg in deficit. Probably no need for more.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Problems with that ^ study: small sample size, short duration and DEXA can't measure changes in muscle size.

    I'd keep going with 1.6 gram per kg in deficit. Probably no need for more.
    I figured some limitations there

    Do you subscribe to the online studies that you have to pay for to get the full access? I never did yet
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    I figured some limitations there

    Do you subscribe to the online studies that you have to pay for to get the full access? I never did yet
    No I don't, I use sci-hub.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    No I don't, I use sci-hub.

    Oh nice

    So it's free access to all the studies?
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    I'm sure most people here are familiar with Matthew Walker and his "Why We Sleep?". He hit all the major media circuits, had one of the most downloaded TED talks of all time, and appeared on Joe Rogan to promote his widely-praised book about the benefits of sleep. Ever since I heard him speak, I just had a gut sense that he was exaggerating his claims. It turns out, my gut instinct was correct. Alexey Guzey just published a paper that systematically tears apart Walker's book and reveals that it was rife with misleading statements and scientific inaccuracies:https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/.

    If anything sounds too good to be true, even the amazing benefits of a good night's sleep, then it probably is.
    I have been meaning to read that book but have not gotten around to it. Thank you for posting this.
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    This is that vegan protein powders vs. whey study. Even though the leucine amount was matched between drinks the leucine peak from whey was much higher.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...s-11-02987.pdf
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    I was going to post this here today but couldn't find this link to the Ongoing discussion. Thank you Adam

    This was released 11 days ago

    This is the abstract but I'd like to see the full study to discuss because we (and many others) usually say to up protein whilst in an energy deficit





    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/sms.13634

    Maybe Mrpb has full access to Wiley
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...nd_performance

    Here is the full study if your interested (if it can be accessed in the US). Not fully read it yet so yet to make any analysis of it
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    ^ from the full text: No changes were observed for FFM in either LOW or HIGH (0.5 ± 4.2%,
    327 p=0.79, 1.9 ± 3.2%, p=0.20, respectively).

    That's after only 10 days. If this trend continued the high protein group would have been gaining a nice amount of FFM.
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...nd_performance

    Here is the full study if your interested (if it can be accessed in the US). Not fully read it yet so yet to make any analysis of it
    Thank you for the PDF link bro
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...nd_performance

    Here is the full study if your interested (if it can be accessed in the US). Not fully read it yet so yet to make any analysis of it
    Thanks for tracking down the free link.

    Their reporting of changes in body weight, fat mass, and fat-free mass as percentages smells fishy. In particular, I don't like the reporting of fat mass loss as ‐40.5% in LOW vs ‐33.4% in HIGH. The reality is that they lost the exact same amount of fat but the LOW group started out with a lower body fat percentage (18% vs 21%).

    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    ^ from the full text: No changes were observed for FFM in either LOW or HIGH (0.5 ± 4.2%,
    327 p=0.79, 1.9 ± 3.2%, p=0.20, respectively).

    That's after only 10 days. If this trend continued the high protein group would have been gaining a nice amount of FFM.
    It looks like this difference is an artifact of crappy methodology. When you look at the DEXA numbers in Table 1, the changes in FFM are almost identical. Only by including the stupid scale calculation does it get all botched. I'm pretty sure this is why the p-values are so bad. They should have thrown out the scale calculation, but they were probably worried that DEXA data was even more unreliable because of the scans being conducted immediately post-exercise (discussed on lines 459-472).

    Given that the two groups experienced identical decline in leg power, I'm inclined to believe their changes in FFM were similar.
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    Originally Posted by rtpmarine View Post
    It looks like this difference is an artifact of crappy methodology. When you look at the DEXA numbers in Table 1, the changes in FFM are almost identical. Only by including the stupid scale calculation does it get all botched. I'm pretty sure this is why the p-values are so bad. They should have thrown out the scale calculation, but they were probably worried that DEXA data was even more unreliable because of the scans being conducted immediately post-exercise (discussed on lines 459-472).
    Actually the methodology used is explained well in the referenced paper. If they hadn’t used this protocol the measurements would have been completely meaningless because the low protein group ate much more carbs (leading to higher FFM readings by DXA).

    Given that the two groups experienced identical decline in leg power, I'm inclined to believe their changes in FFM were similar.
    1 rm tests are a poor gauge for changes in muscle, especially when they the intervention was only 10 days and they were able to recover for 7 days. I’m not necessarily interested in FFM.

    After seeing the details of this study my conclusion is: the whole design is inappropriate to draw any conclusions. I’m not surprised certain individuals still try to draw conclusions that fit their agenda.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Actually the methodology used is explained well in the referenced paper. If they hadn’t used this protocol the measurements would have been completely meaningless because the low protein group ate much more carbs (leading to higher FFM readings by DXA).
    Ahhh duh, that makes sense.

    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    After seeing the details of this study my conclusion is: the whole design is inappropriate to draw any conclusions. I’m not surprised certain individuals still try to draw conclusions that fit their agenda.
    Agreed. My first thought reading through it was that they were intentionally trying to downplay any benefit of higher protein so that the military ration makers can continue putting out cheaper carbohydrate-centric chow. I backed off that when I read the methodology details and realized it was just a cluster****.
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    It was interesting so I originally posted it to discuss the flaws with it

    But honestly personally I don’t think a study is needed to disprove you don’t need more protein while in an energy deficit

    We know MPS takes a nosedive in that scenario so common sense would dictate a need for higher protein then

    Plus it wont hurt to go a little higher in an energy deficit
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