Ongoing Study Discussion Thread - Nutrition, Training, Health etc.

[Mrpb]

^ IMO that's a pretty misleading article. Sure there's a lot of variability with calories but that doesn't mean "calories are dead and it's time to burry them".

This part was funny: "He was constantly told that if he got the maths right – consuming fewer calories than he burned each day – the results would soon show. “I really did everything you are supposed to do,” he insists with the tone of a schoolboy who completed his homework yet still failed a big test. He bought a battery of exercise monitoring devices to measure how many calories he was expending on his runs. “I was told to exercise for at least 45 minutes at least four or five times a week. I actually ran for more than an hour every day.” He kept to low-fat, low-calorie food for three years. It simply didn’t work. At one point he lost about 10kg but his weight rebounded, though he still restricted his calories."

Right. He regained 10kg even though he was still restricting calories..... SMH.

[Strawng]

^ IMO that's a pretty misleading article. Sure there's a lot of variability with calories but that doesn't mean "calories are dead and it's time to burry them.”

This. I was cringing so hard as I read his “story”. It propogates the “clean eating” myth, it suggests that bacon & eggs are “healthy” whereas low-fat products are not, BMI is meaningless because it doesn’t work for musular “athletes”, meal timing is more important than cico, people are fat because of their “metabolisms”, exercise isn’t going to help with weight loss unless it’s Crossfit, food labels can be off so they’re irrelevant, & you can gain weight in a caloric deficit if you’re not eating whole foods. It really panders to the masses who want a magic solution to weight loss besides putting in the work: eating less & moving more. It’s impossible to appreciate the few kernels of gold in the article when they’re buried in such a steaming pile of chit.

[Mrpb]

^ I didn't even get that far to be honest. Boy that's a bad article.

[Heisman2]

That is part of the reason I posted it here as only people who have a general background look at this thread (at least I think). That said the article brings up several points regarding why the general public tends to screw things up and is a nice overview of that. It also discusses to some degree how individual variability plays a role, which I think in general is not given enough importance. That said, I agree the personal story at the beginning is completely unnecessary and counting calories is still going to work every time if you are as accurate as possible and make relative changes as indicated.

Edit: for example, it is the only general article I have seen that actually discussed inaccuracies of Atwater factors. It brings up several intricacies most are not aware of.

[Mrpb]

Meta-regression analysis of the effects of dietary cholesterol intake on LDL and HDL cholesterol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30596814/

Take away: eating more cholesterol does increase LDL cholesterol.

[boo99]

Jorn T. has just released this new study 15 minutes ago....

Did not read yet but about to


"Ultra-processed foods cause weight gain"


http://www.nutritiontactics.com/ultr...e-weight-gain/

[blue9steel]

Jorn T. has just released this new study 15 minutes ago....

Did not read yet but about to


"Ultra-processed foods cause weight gain"


http://www.nutritiontactics.com/ultr...e-weight-gain/

Short summary: Ultra-processed foods cause you to eat more when using Ad Libitum feeding.

[Mrpb]

Jorn T. has just released this new study 15 minutes ago....

Did not read yet but about to


"Ultra-processed foods cause weight gain"


http://www.nutritiontactics.com/ultr...e-weight-gain/

yeah we had a thread about that study before. the study is from Kevin Hall.

Nice study. One downside, iirc, is that the ultra-processed group seemed to eat relatively less protein, so the craving for extra calories may have been craving for extra protein.

What if you eat high protein with ultra processed foods? Maybe it doesn't matter... Speculation though.

[boo99]

yeah we had a thread about that study before. the study is from Kevin Hall.

Nice study. One downside, iirc, is that the ultra-processed group seemed to eat relatively less protein, so the craving for extra calories may have been craving for extra protein.

What if you eat high protein with ultra processed foods? Maybe it doesn't matter... Speculation though.

As I was typing that I was thinking that it seemed familiar but forgot about that one

[Heisman2]

Here was the thread: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...6805541&page=1

[AdamWW]

Meta-regression analysis of the effects of dietary cholesterol intake on LDL and HDL cholesterol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30596814/

Take away: eating more cholesterol does increase LDL cholesterol.

One thing i've been wondering for a while, and it is a very basic and -- likely -- ignorant question, but I wanna ask:

Although LDL is associated with increased risk of CVD and adverse cardiac events, do experts understand whether that risk is due to purely the concentration of LDL or if arterial damage + excess LDL is required for the risk to exist?

I have always thought of LDL as the 'repairing' cholesterol (ie - it binds to damaged portions of the arterial wall, and if enough build-up occurs you can have an infarction/heart attack), whereas HDL is more of the 'clearance' form.

But, that being the case, if someone lacks the damage within their arteries to cause build-up to occur, would the existence of higher LDL levels be an issue at all, given it has nothing to 'stick' to?

Mainly ask because, when people exercise and eat more anti-inflammatory and high anti-oxidant foods, it seems like arterial damage would be fair less likely.

[Mrpb]

I'm far from an expert on the technicalities of cholesterol. From what I've read the motto is 'lower is better' for CVD risk and I've not heard (from credible sources) that there are really exceptions to that.

[AdamWW]

I'm far from an expert on the technicalities of cholesterol. From what I've read the motto is 'lower is better' for CVD risk and I've not heard (from credible sources) that there are really exceptions to that.

To use a metaphor: tossing a lit match into a room filled 2in high with gasoline is going to be more hazardous than the same match tossed into a room with a single drop of gas in the corner. Match being the LDL, gas being arterial damage. That was my thought..

[Mrpb]

To use a metaphor: tossing a lit match into a room filled 2in high with gasoline is going to be more hazardous than the same match tossed into a room with a single drop of gas in the corner. Match being the LDL, gas being arterial damage. That was my thought..

It's not that I didn't understand what you're writing. It's that I know too little of the subject to have an informed opinion.

[AdamWW]

It's not that I didn't understand what you're writing. It's that I know too little of the subject to have an informed opinion.

gotcha.

I mean it would be interesting to know if that's even possible to control for, because I imagine it's not...

Then again, it probably falls in the same realm of risk-reduction methods when it comes to cancer. For example some people can smoke 3 packs a day since age 16 and live to 90+ years old (though probably not breathing well), while others may never, ever smoke and still get lung cancer, or some might only develop cancer if they introduce enough added stress on their bodies to trigger it.

In the lipid context it seems to be equally difficult (if not impossible) to measure coronary artery damage wherein LDL particles could lodge and cause problems... you don't really know if the interior of your walls are accumulating plaque, when they do it, etc... though over time (as it true with any and all cellular damage in our bodies) the opportunities and severity of risk factors and effects accumulate... just like radiation, etc.

Basically, high LDL isn't a guarantee of heart disease, but it definitely increases the risk... you might just be one of the lucky ones who could have a total cholesterol of 300+ and still never have an issue... while some people could have awesome numbers and have a heart attack at 40.

[boo99]

gotcha.

I mean it would be interesting to know if that's even possible to control for, because I imagine it's not...

Then again, it probably falls in the same realm of risk-reduction methods when it comes to cancer. For example some people can smoke 3 packs a day since age 16 and live to 90+ years old (though probably not breathing well), while others may never, ever smoke and still get lung cancer, or some might only develop cancer if they introduce enough added stress on their bodies to trigger it.

In the lipid context it seems to be equally difficult (if not impossible) to measure coronary artery damage wherein LDL particles could lodge and cause problems... you don't really know if the interior of your walls are accumulating plaque, when they do it, etc... though over time (as it true with any and all cellular damage in our bodies) the opportunities and severity of risk factors and effects accumulate... just like radiation, etc.

Basically, high LDL isn't a guarantee of heart disease, but it definitely increases the risk... you might just be one of the lucky ones who could have a total cholesterol of 300+ and still never have an issue... while some people could have awesome numbers and have a heart attack at 40.

Something I'd rather not even know

You go into a hospital for one thing and they find or give you another problem

[AdamWW]

Something I'd rather not even know

You go into a hospital for one thing and they find or give you another problem

Stay away from WebMD

[Mrpb]

New review on how coffee benefits performance: https://shakebotapp.files.wordpress....19-2.png?w=740

[boo99]

Imagery can increase strength


New meta-analysis released just now by Jorn T


http://www.nutritiontactics.com/imag...ease-strength/



@mrpb Coffee FTW

[AdamWW]

New review on how coffee benefits performance: https://shakebotapp.files.wordpress....19-2.png?w=740

This comes at a good time for me.

I've been delving even deeper into trying all kind of local roasters here in Seattle... the cup I have in my hand right now is incredible.

[Mrpb]

Haven't read this yet but the highlights sound interesting/controversial.

Highlights
•Carbohydrates do not have a beneficial effect on any aspect of mood.
•Carbohydrate consumption lowers alertness within 60 minutes after consumption.
•Carbohydrates increase fatigue within 30 minutes post-consumption.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6Xrb0hD-YIpQbU

[broganoff]

Haven't read this yet but the highlights sound interesting/controversial.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6Xrb0hD-YIpQbU

Anecdotally I would agree with statements 2 and 3. If I eat a salad with protein for lunch as opposed to something with more carbs, I don't get that groggy/sleepy feeling in the hour or so afterwards. Although if I am planning to lift a few hours later, I don't think I lift quite as well.

[AdamWW]

Haven't read this yet but the highlights sound interesting/controversial.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6Xrb0hD-YIpQbU

I can't see the full text but the abstract seems to use 'sugar-sweetened foods' and 'CHO' interchangeably... so i'd be interested in see if they're just generalizing or specifically talking about refined sugars alone...

Personally... the only times I feel sluggish with carbs is it it's refined carbs + fats/oils.....

If I consume rice or sweet potato, protein, and a little bit of whole-food fat... i feel great...

donuts, cakes... different story

[Mrpb]

If I eat a salad with protein for lunch as opposed to something with more carbs, I don't get that groggy/sleepy feeling in the hour or so afterwards.

Same for me. Low carb at breakfast and lunch seems best. Somehow I can tolerate carbs better at night it seems. Or maybe that's because I don't do much at night.

[boo99]

I can't see the full text but the abstract seems to use 'sugar-sweetened foods' and 'CHO' interchangeably... so i'd be interested in see if they're just generalizing or specifically talking about refined sugars alone...

Personally... the only times I feel sluggish with carbs is it it's refined carbs + fats/oils.....

If I consume rice or sweet potato, protein, and a little bit of whole-food fat... i feel great...

donuts, cakes... different story

Interesting. I'm the opposite: rice, pasta, breads...I'm nearly comatose

Thnx Mrpb for posting

[AdamWW]

Interesting. I'm the opposite: rice, pasta, breads...I'm nearly comatose

Thnx Mrpb for posting

Is it just those carbs?

I never understood how people could react to carbs in that way... seems so strange to me

[JackMan017]

Same for me. Low carb at breakfast and lunch seems best. Somehow I can tolerate carbs better at night it seems. Or maybe that's because I don't do much at night.

Iirc a while back you mentioned you train in the afternoon. Do you think your night carbs are tolerated better due to eating them post workout?

[AdamWW]

what are you all eating to have such specific/severe reactions?

With a mixed meal containing fat, protein, and carbs... wouldn't much of the glucose response level out?

[Strawng]

what are you all eating to have such specific/severe reactions?

With a mixed meal containing fat, protein, and carbs... wouldn't much of the glucose response level out?

I'm wondering the same thing. I feel AMAZING and particularly energized after I eat carbs. I feel sluggish if I have a meal without them.

[AdamWW]

I'm wondering the same thing. I feel AMAZING and particularly energized after I eat carbs. I feel sluggish if I have a meal without them.

same

For me, pre-workout I love low-fat high carbs... every other meal I like a decent balance... but even just a higher fat and higher protein meal doesn't fully satisfy me at all... I crave the carbs even if only for a texture change. Starches add a mouthfeel that fats and protein doesn't have.

The only things that make me truly sluggish are things like too much dairy fat + simple sugars at once, like if I slammed down a pint of ice cream or way too much cheese on something... but, rice + avocado + fish or something... feels awesome... bananas also sit with me very, very well... between two slices of bread with PB