The journey is over; the motivation in here is drier than drips mum.

[Drips617]

i hear ya man, id love to get an FAL or a galil. more ARs and AKs are always good too.

over the years though my opinion on ARs has shifted towards liking them more and more. one of the reasons being that they are so easy to upgrade, so easy to buy multiple uppers and swap them out, and part interchangeability. the platform just makes sense as a practical rifle that you can shoot alot because fixing anything that might break is easy to do. swapping out a worn out barrel on an AK is difficult, but changing the barrel on an AR is EZPZ.

Two is one, and one is none


ARs are like legos for adults. But I actually enjoy shooting my AK more. I got a Norinco and that thing will never die or break. Gotta give those commies credit where its due, they know how to make battle rifles.

[Rio4real]

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[Luc1fer]

I Thought You Guys Might Be Interested In My First Of Many Bodybuilding For: PDF & Video
Check Out My E-book " Bodybuilding For Busy People " PDF & Video Link




Much Love,
Rio4real

Can someone else open this, I don't want a virus.

[Drips617]

Man, fwck Georgia and fwck the GOP. I've never been more disappointed in my country. Looks like a dark next 2 years minimum. The elites in Washington win again. Rah rah let's go establishment. :/


Tbh, I don't see this division ending and the country ever unifying again. What's left to do, let's start the balkanization of the states already (srs) rip the band aid off. There's no reconciliation

[guest]

Man, fwck Georgia and fwck the GOP. I've never been more disappointed in my country. Looks like a dark next 2 years minimum. The elites in Washington win again. Rah rah let's go establishment. :/


Tbh, I don't see this division ending and the country ever unifying again. What's left to do, let's start the balkanization of the states already (srs) rip the band aid off. There's no reconciliation

Yeah, I am tempted to agree on the unifying thing. It’s just become so divisive. Each side is pretty much to the point where it’s vilifying the people who disagree with them. Rather than discuss issues and POV, it’s just defensive.

Of course, I’m on the other side of the aisle from you - but I do see our national dialog the same way and it’s disappointing.

[Drips617]

**** is getting real spicy boys. This is what happens when the left normalizes political violence and destruction of public property. Reap what you sow

[OT2000]

What countries you guys moving to? I am thinking Cuba.

[Luc1fer]

**** is getting real spicy boys. This is what happens when the left normalizes political violence and destruction of public property. Reap what you sow

You can't just blame the left for this, there are lunatics on both ends. Both riots need to be condemned.

[Drips617]

You can't just blame the left for this

I just did.

Oh wait, I forgot the media for giving them countless permission structures over the last 8 months. Good call.

Yeah, when you give multiple passes and you tell people they are virtuous and exercising their 1st amendment rights by burning and looting and murdering, (isn't that what BLM stands for anyway?) (No offense boguey) Then you're in effect not just normalizing political violence, you're encouraging it.

What do you think is going to happen? When people on the other side start feeling disenfranchised and like something was stolen from them? The precedent has been set. This is on the left and media


And trust me, I loathe AoC VEHEMENTLY, but read her tweet. https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1334184644707758080?s=19

You can't just make rules for one side and not the other.


And for the record, I am not advocating for what happened, but honestly I am not too upset about it either. These elites in Washington, on both sides, have been cruising and collecting their paychecks for far too long. It's time they realize the american people, their constituents, are tired of being fwcked over.

[Drips617]

RIP thread.

Democrats ITT too busy clutching their pearls to discuss

[guest]

RIP thread.

Democrats ITT too busy clutching their pearls to discuss

lol, something on your mind, Drips?

In all seriousness, I’m always up for a debate on ideas or policy. That kind of thing is healthy. I don’t (here, in life, in the R&P) get into the “whatabout that side, whatabout what they did first” sort of stuff because it’s intellectually lazy and unproductive. It does nothing to further an idea or understanding. It’s just a pity party at best and causes bitterness at worst.

“The aim of debate aught to be progress, not victory”.

I will absolutely concede this to you; the shifting culture in the country definitely created this monster. The left shaming people for using the wrong pronoun or telling people to check their privilege every time there was a misunderstanding was definitely what built Trumpism and eventually led to the Capitol being stormed. But that by no means made what happened acceptable. It’s just another example of how we drift further and further from dialog and understanding.

I would bet that we almost certainly want the same basic things. We have very different ideas about how to achieve them. That is a good place for dialog. I wish more of it would happen.

[mgftp]

lol, something on your mind, Drips?

In all seriousness, I’m always up for a debate on ideas or policy. That kind of thing is healthy. I don’t (here, in life, in the R&P) get into the “whatabout that side, whatabout what they did first” sort of stuff because it’s intellectually lazy and unproductive. It does nothing to further an idea or understanding. It’s just a pity party at best and causes bitterness at worst.

“The aim of debate aught to be progress, not victory”.

I will absolutely concede this to you; the shifting culture in the country definitely created this monster. The left shaming people for using the wrong pronoun or telling people to check their privilege every time there was a misunderstanding was definitely what built Trumpism and eventually led to the Capitol being stormed. But that by no means made what happened acceptable. It’s just another example of how we drift further and further from dialog and understanding.

I would bet that we almost certainly want the same basic things. We have very different ideas about how to achieve them. That is a good place for dialog. I wish more of it would happen.

As n intelligent post on the misc? What year is this?

[~Hades~]

It’s likely that we only see minor changes in policy and taxes that last 2-4 years


However this environment is the most toxic and divided we have seen so it’s also more possible for major changes than we have had in the past

[Drips617]

lol, something on your mind, Drips?

In all seriousness, I’m always up for a debate on ideas or policy. That kind of thing is healthy. I don’t (here, in life, in the R&P) get into the “whatabout that side, whatabout what they did first” sort of stuff because it’s intellectually lazy and unproductive. It does nothing to further an idea or understanding. It’s just a pity party at best and causes bitterness at worst.

“The aim of debate aught to be progress, not victory”.

I will absolutely concede this to you; the shifting culture in the country definitely created this monster. The left shaming people for using the wrong pronoun or telling people to check their privilege every time there was a misunderstanding was definitely what built Trumpism and eventually led to the Capitol being stormed. But that by no means made what happened acceptable. It’s just another example of how we drift further and further from dialog and understanding.

I would bet that we almost certainly want the same basic things. We have very different ideas about how to achieve them. That is a good place for dialog. I wish more of it would happen.

Lol I am glad you realized I was just teasing. Wasn't sure how that'd go.

And yes...yes I agree on that last part. I feel like at least 80% of people are moderates, whether left or right moderates, and we all want the same basic things just with different nuances to them.


And I agree, "trumpism" or as I like to call it populism, is a movement that is here to stay. A party for the multi ethnic, working class people. What's funny is there are so many populists on both sides, people just don't realize they are fighting each other instead of their same common enemy, the deeply entrenched deep state establishment.

You gotta think, the deep state has done an amazing job at recognizing this and manipulating the herd to keep us divided and fighting against each other rather than them. Hats off to them I guess.

Until this tribalism ends, nada will change!

And I'll be the first to admit. I am pretty bitter about this stuff. It's kinda hard not to be from the perspective of this side.

[guest]

It’s likely that we only see minor changes in policy and taxes that last 2-4 years


However this environment is the most toxic and divided we have seen so it’s also more possible for major changes than we have had in the past

100% agree with this. There is a huge opportunity. It’s also a huge misstep if it’s squandered.

Lol I am glad you realized I was just teasing. Wasn't sure how that'd go.

And yes...yes I agree on that last part. I feel like at least 80% of people are moderates, whether left or right moderates, and we all want the same basic things just with different nuances to them.


And I agree, "trumpism" or as I like to call it populism, is a movement that is here to stay. A party for the multi ethnic, working class people. What's funny is there are so many populists on both sides, people just don't realize they are fighting each other instead of their same common enemy, the deeply entrenched deep state establishment.

You gotta think, the deep state has done an amazing job at recognizing this and manipulating the herd to keep us divided and fighting against each other rather than them. Hats off to them I guess.

Until this tribalism ends, nada will change!

And I'll be the first to admit. I am pretty bitter about this stuff. It's kinda hard not to be from the perspective of this side.

I don’t take offense to that stuff. If either of us had the answers, things would be a lot more simple.

Here’s a thought experiment; take the political concept of populism without any of pejorative context (ie; only the concept of power being distributed to the common man) and see what kind of economic concept you can come up with that doesn’t start to look like socialism without any of it’s pejorative context (ie; equal distribution of resources).

You need to dive deep conceptually and remove all of the opinions about the systems, but you’ll eventually find out that everyone is aiming at the same thing.

When Plato imagined his Republic, he imagined something that looked pretty Marxist if you boil it down. When Hobbes wrote The Leviathan, he did so as a caution about “the sovereign”. Aristotle imagined three forms of government and their three perversions. All of these were influential in the framing of our constitution.

I’m not sure if I agree about the existence of a “deep state”...I just haven’t seen enough evidence one way or another to make a factual statement about it. But through this thought experiment, if you can acknowledge that money = power = influence, you’ll find that what you call the deep state is what those on the left just refer to as “the rich”.

Again; all looking for the same thing.

The only ones who aren’t are the ones who are resource hoarders. Think of the concept of money. It should be finite, but it’s not. It’s infinite. Some people have billions, other people have nothing. Who sets the rules? How do they get that power, and what stops them from accumulating more and more of the “infinite resource” in order to get their way?

I don’t have the answers...nobody does. But it’s just further proof that we all have the same basic wants. And I intentionally used ideologies that should appear opposite of yours in my examples.

[taydbear7]

What countries you guys moving to? I am thinking Cuba.

Middle Earth so I can have second breakfast.

[Drips617]

100% agree with this. There is a huge opportunity. It’s also a huge misstep if it’s squandered.



I don’t take offense to that stuff. If either of us had the answers, things would be a lot more simple.

Here’s a thought experiment; take the political concept of populism without any of pejorative context (ie; only the concept of power being distributed to the common man) and see what kind of economic concept you can come up with that doesn’t start to look like socialism without any of it’s pejorative context (ie; equal distribution of resources).

You need to dive deep conceptually and remove all of the opinions about the systems, but you’ll eventually find out that everyone is aiming at the same thing.

When Plato imagined his Republic, he imagined something that looked pretty Marxist if you boil it down. When Hobbes wrote The Leviathan, he did so as a caution about “the sovereign”. Aristotle imagined three forms of government and their three perversions. All of these were influential in the framing of our constitution.

I’m not sure if I agree about the existence of a “deep state”...I just haven’t seen enough evidence one way or another to make a factual statement about it. But through this thought experiment, if you can acknowledge that money = power = influence, you’ll find that what you call the deep state is what those on the left just refer to as “the rich”.

Again; all looking for the same thing.

The only ones who aren’t are the ones who are resource hoarders. Think of the concept of money. It should be finite, but it’s not. It’s infinite. Some people have billions, other people have nothing. Who sets the rules? How do they get that power, and what stops them from accumulating more and more of the “infinite resource” in order to get their way?

I don’t have the answers...nobody does. But it’s just further proof that we all have the same basic wants. And I intentionally used ideologies that should appear opposite of yours in my examples.

I think there are going to be degrees of socialism in any system, even in the most capitalistic of them all. Which Is fine, IMO. I think they should be there insofar they are used solely as a crutch, until people are able to provide for themselves again, if and when they are able. The problem I have with socialist programs the progressives are pushing for, is it decentivizes (sp?) ambition, hard work, and entrepreneurship. I'm ok with govt assistance to a degree, but it should always be looked at as temporary, and I don't think that's how people treat it unfortunately.
Cream should always rise to the top, and be rewarded for it, or else we lose a lot of what made/makes America great.

America has the best medicine in the world. I highly doubt that would be the case if you put price limits on what these companies could charge, and or wanted to distribute it for free. It's pretty basic human nature that humans and therefore companies are driven by incentives. That incentive for R&D and development for new and great products is gone once the ability to capitalize on it is gone.

As far as deep state yeah I was talking about the rich and influential, the george soros and bloomberg's of the world, who are able to push their agendas with money, power, and influence so I guess we agree on that. And those are just the first two who came to mind, there are equal amounts on both sides.

And I'm not sure I agree that money is infinite, but maybe I misunderstood. If you mean it can be printed on a whim, then I agree. And we're seeing the effects of that this year. 35% of USD in circulation was printed on 2020. People don't seem to understand the inflationary effect this has on their purchasing power.

It's like the people in power decided to double down on their autism this year. Lets shutdown the economy so hundreds of millions of peoples livelihoods are gone, and they are struggling to survive. Then to fix it let's make the money printer go brrrr to make the value of everyone's dollar even weaker. But let's only give them a little sliver of that newly minted USD. 90% of it will go to bailouts and foreign omnibus


No comment on that plato stuff. I refuse to read old texts. The prose of that era puts me to sleep lol

[Luc1fer]

Socialism doesn't work, never has. It's antithetical to the human condition.

It always sounds nice on paper, but never works in practice because capitalism is a system that aligns belter with the human condition.

Unfettered capitalism, perhaps not. But as a socio-economic system it's proven to be the best. There's a reason everyone wants to live in capitalist societies.

Marxism is a particularly dangerous philosophy.

[guest]

Socialism doesn't work, never has. It's antithetical to the human condition.

It always sounds nice on paper, but never works in practice because capitalism is a system that aligns belter with the human condition.

Unfettered capitalism, perhaps not. But as a socio-economic system it's proven to be the best. There's a reason everyone wants to live in capitalist societies.

Marxism is a particularly dangerous philosophy.

Communism is antithetical to the human condition. Socialism does coexist with capitalism in places like Sweden and Germany.

I don’t believe the USA needs to be socialist in order to have equality. You can have capitalism where everyone might not have the same things, but they all have the same opportunities. I think that’s what everyone (on both sides) wants.

I’m sure there are some people who want everything taken care of for them, but I don’t think it’s very many. Most people who are struggling to make a middle class life want to achieve it on their own.

[Drips617]

Communism is antithetical to the human condition. Socialism does coexist with capitalism in places like Sweden and Germany.

I don’t believe the USA needs to be socialist in order to have equality. You can have capitalism where everyone might not have the same things, but they all have the same opportunities. I think that’s what everyone (on both sides) wants.

I’m sure there are some people who want everything taken care of for them, but I don’t think it’s very many. Most people who are struggling to make a middle class life want to achieve it on their own.

Gotta disagree BIGLY with you there, when kamala herself, posts videos on her twitter advocating for equality of outcome

I think their message of what they want policy to achieve is pretty blatant. And let's be honest. She is basically already acting president. Joe can't even remember what election he's running for

[~Hades~]

Gotta disagree BIGLY with you there, when kamala herself, posts videos on her twitter advocating for equality of outcome

I think their message of what they want policy to achieve is pretty blatant. And let's be honest. She is basically already acting president. Joe can't even remember what election he's running for

This.

There is already “equal” opportunity. There are now laws or policies holding any minorities back. In fact they receive preferential opportunities.

If anything, affirmative action proves there are polices holding other races back. This is especially true of Asian vs. black populations.

Equal outcome = full blown socialism/communism

[Luc1fer]

This.

There is already “equal” opportunity. There are now laws or policies holding any minorities back. In fact they receive preferential opportunities.

Let's all agree that equal outcome is a disastrous idea to promote.

I am in favor of at least striving towards equal opportunity. The problem is there isn't equal opportunity in practice (aside from the law).

Race completely aside, a person born into a wealthy family in Manhattan has enormously more opportunity than one born in a Detroit ghetto.

I do think America should bridge the gap here a bit. It is not an easy problem to solve, and I believe it's more about enabling (i.e. opening more opportunity) to folk in less fortunate circumstances.

I don't think throwing welfare money solves it, but rather for e.g. perhaps strategic infrastructure projects. The change must come from within the culture too, and once an opportunity is there, hard work must win.

[Bosko]

Throwing money at people with low income/IQ and no ethics does not solve a thing.
You give a said group of people 10 grand each and all of a sudden they become financially responsible and use the money wisely...not a fukin chance..

Drug dealers...casinos...and liquor stores will reap the reward....

[guest]

Gotta disagree BIGLY with you there, when kamala herself, posts videos on her twitter advocating for equality of outcome

I think their message of what they want policy to achieve is pretty blatant. And let's be honest. She is basically already acting president. Joe can't even remember what election he's running for

Not sure what Kamala or Biden have to do with the basic notion that equality of opportunity is fundamentally fair.

I concede that we, as a country, diverge on how to get there. I’m talking in strictly terms of ideals.

Disagreement on paths is fundamental and healthy. What’s concerning is that there is a notion that ideals are different. I don’t really think they are.

From the left:
I don’t want peoples guns taken, I want fewer people killed.
I don’t want government handouts for anyone, I want opportunity to be the same for everyone.
I don’t want mass abortions, I want fewer children born unwanted and disadvantaged from the start.

I don’t expect that we’re going to shake hands on methods. I do think we can shake hands on motives.

The sooner we can stop demonizing people based on how they hope to achieve common goals, the sooner we can figure out methods. That goes for both sides, because it’s happening on both sides.

[OT2000]

If our politicians could discuss this as amicably as you guys are we would get somewhere.

[~Hades~]

Let's all agree that equal outcome is a disastrous idea to promote.

I am in favor of at least striving towards equal opportunity. The problem is there isn't equal opportunity in practice (aside from the law).

Race completely aside, a person born into a wealthy family in Manhattan has enormously more opportunity than one born in a Detroit ghetto.

I do think America should bridge the gap here a bit. It is not an easy problem to solve, and I believe it's more about enabling (i.e. opening more opportunity) to folk in less fortunate circumstances.

I don't think throwing welfare money solves it, but rather for e.g. perhaps strategic infrastructure projects. The change must come from within the culture too, and once an opportunity is there, hard work must win.

i hear you and i would always welcome more opportunity for all people.

of course we will never have "equal" opportunity for all people but as long as he world has existed, there has never been pure equal opportunity and there never will be. bringing down one group is not the way to solve the problem. lifting people up will definitely help tho

hard work will find the best opportunities

[riley444]

Middle Earth so I can have second breakfast.

New Zealand does seem quite peaceful and scenic.

[guest]

Let's all agree that equal outcome is a disastrous idea to promote.

I am in favor of at least striving towards equal opportunity. The problem is there isn't equal opportunity in practice (aside from the law).

Race completely aside, a person born into a wealthy family in Manhattan has enormously more opportunity than one born in a Detroit ghetto.

I do think America should bridge the gap here a bit. It is not an easy problem to solve, and I believe it's more about enabling (i.e. opening more opportunity) to folk in less fortunate circumstances.

I don't think throwing welfare money solves it, but rather for e.g. perhaps strategic infrastructure projects. The change must come from within the culture too, and once an opportunity is there, hard work must win.

This is exactly what I’m saying. Take the race and identity politics out of it, and you’re left with unequal opportunity. That is what we should strive to fix. Not that we will - but that’s the ideal we should be aiming for.

I agree with all of this.

[Drips617]

Not sure what Kamala or Biden have to do with the basic notion that equality of opportunity is fundamentally fair.

I thought my point was clear but sorry for the confusion.

Equality of opportunity, or at least striving towards it, is fine and dandy, but if you truly believe that's all that THEY want, maybe you haven't been listening to them closely enough.

So there’s a big difference between equality and equity. Equality suggests, “oh everyone should get the same amount.” The problem with that, not everybody’s starting out from the same place. So if we’re all getting the same amount, but you started out back there and I started out over here, we could get the same amount, but you’re still going to be that far back behind me. It’s about giving people the resources and the support they need, so that everyone can be on equal footing, and then compete on equal footing. Equitable treatment means we all end up in the same place.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.". -Maya Angelou

[DanielParke]

Very reasonable arguments ITT

Personal anecdote. I’m unemployed due to Covid. Given my profession (recruiting), the recruiters I talk with during my application stage feel comfortable to share that I’m not moving forward because they need a “diverse candidate list”. I’ve been told this a good number of times. That comment is usually followed up by “...I’m sure understand”

What do I do with that?